The Irish and You....

[Batch]

I thought this deserved a thread of its own.

After last saturday's game against Michigan what are your thoughts on the Irish team as a whole?

The reason I am posting this is because I have seen a lot of comments about Weis being outcoached and our offense stagnating...etc.

Just curious what everyones mind state is on the rest of the season.

-Batch

 

[BigIrish]

The reason I am posting this is because I have seen a lot of comments about Weis being outcoached and our offense stagnating...etc.

weis did not get outcoached. IMO, it was coaching that won that game, considering that u-m, from top to bottom, has more "recruited" talent than the irish. the offense looked stale in the second half of the pittsburgh game because weis started experimenting with substitutions. the game was in hand - why play too aggressively and put your team in a position to make costly mistakes? similar situation at u-m. although the game wasn't necessarily out of reach for the wolverines, nd did hold the lead and weis had a responsibility to maintain that lead. as charlie put it in his post-game, he would have made different calls if it had turned into a shoot-out, where he needed to respond to a touchdown with a touchdown of our own.

i think the comments about the offense are just as knee jerk reactionary as comments about us vying for the national championship after just two games.

let's not forget that this is the same personnel as last year, with a new pro offense, new coaches, etc. weis has done a remarkable job so far, but there are going to be hiccups and breakdowns along the way.

my general prediction remains the same...we'll likely wind up with three losses this season. i just pray that the first doesn't come at the hands of michigan state. ANYBODY but them.

 

[Rip Rap]

The reason I am posting this is because I have seen a lot of comments about Weis being outcoached and our offense stagnating...etc.

Carr is a goofy coach. He is good (but not great), and adapts in a game, but he always loses close matches for completely boneheaded reasons. I do think their defensive coordinator responded well and really adapted to all the off-tackle runs Walker kept racking up, but Carr wasted the end of the first half, and that was inexplicable. I don't think Carr is brilliant by any means, but he is well above average.

Considering that Weis is still building a program, I would say the improvement of our team's play was obvious. I don't really understand what was going on at the very end of the game though: We started to kneel it out, and ended up running a series of fullback dives (?). I think the NY Giants lost a playoff game in the early 80s doing that (fumble returned for a touchdown). That made no sense to me whatsoever. Was there any discernable reason for that on television?

 

[weisfaninmass]

Weis outcoached??? HUH??? What game?? Less talent -- on the road -- the BIG HOUSE -- 17-3 lead out of the gate -- a WIN OVER #3.

Play calling on the road is different w a 17-3 lead against #3 than if it were 0-0.

Anyone upset of this qulaity win must be looking at Fanstay Football stats. Same people who thought Michael Vick had a bad game on MNF.

 

[gingtoad]

Weis has everything under control. If you haven't figured it out yet you must be watching 2 or 3 different games at once instead of concentrating on the ND game. He hasn't even looked worried on the sideline yet. UM made great adjustments as halftime. Hence DW only gaining 22 more yards on the ground in the 2nd half. You're up 17-3, your defense is playing great, why not try and expirement a little if you can afford it. I think ND dominated that game, even though the score doesn't reflect it.

 

[BGIF]

There's always room for improvement both on the field and on the sidelines. That said, we were a 6-6 team last season, don't have a full complement of 85 scholarship athletes, had a coach with 1 win under his belt going head to head with one that has won 95 games in 10 years (few have achieved that), were on the road in The Big House where UM hadn't lost to anybody in a while, and were playing the #3 Ranked team in the nation.

Did I mention we don't really have a #2 QB nor #2 TB yet and our record setting, game breaking WR Matt Shelton is recovering from surgery?

It was a great win. Inspired defense. Best Special Teams coverage in quite a while. Great Opening Drive - with one exception. Quinn was 5 for 6 on that drive but the one he missed was to a wide open Samardzija. The throw was high and behind him - where too many of Quinn's passes went all day. Quinn was hot on 2 drives the game opener and one in the 2Q when he completed 4/6. Of course that was Samardzija TD off a deflection by a defender that was - behind him as he ran vertically across the endzone. Without the deflection no TD. Watch the tape.

It was a day I became a believer in instant replay. And no the calls "didn't go our way". They made the correct call.

We're we lucky?

Yes!

But luck favors the prepared.

With Quinn's accuracy/consistency problem and no deep threat, UM jammed Walker. Smart move. We had some success but limited. We couldn't sustain drives.

One of the nation's worse secondaries last year contained one of the best two receiving corps they'll face. And one of the best RB corps, ND will face.

Is there a better return man left to face than Breaston? Our formerly sloppy coverage team contained him.

The more experienced Head Coach won the battle between the 20's. No doubt about it.

The rookie won the Turnover battle, play calling was a part in that.

The rookie dominated the Red Zone battle - at both end of the field.

The rookie won the scoreboard battle.


What's the verdict, batch?

 

[BigIrish]

good analysis of the game, BGIF.

 

[jiggafini19]

They haven't looked good in the second half, which will hurt them in close games if that trend continues. They had Pitt virutally beaten at halftime and were up 14-3 on Michigan with a defense that was playing lights out and after Corey Mays had taken out Hart.

Weis has not been outcoached by any stretch. I think they outcoached Carr quite a bit beause their offense did nothing....NOTHING. They couldn't "get 'er done" in the red zone and turned the ball over at very key moments.

I'd like to see a strong second half against MSU, regardless of what the halftime score is. The great teams don't run up the score, but they go for the throat and leave no doubt. UM had the ball at the end with time left to force an issue.

I don't think they've played a full 60 minute game yet and I think Weis agrees. But the season is very young.

 

[weisfaninmass]

They haven't looked good in the second half, which will hurt them in close games if that trend continues. They had Pitt virutally beaten at halftime and were up 14-3 on Michigan with a defense that was playing lights out and after Corey Mays had taken out Hart.

Weis has not been outcoached by any stretch. I think they outcoached Carr quite a bit beause their offense did nothing....NOTHING. They couldn't "get 'er done" in the red zone and turned the ball over at very key moments.

I'd like to see a strong second half against MSU, regardless of what the halftime score is. The great teams don't run up the score, but they go for the throat and leave no doubt. UM had the ball at the end with time left to force an issue.

I don't think they've played a full 60 minute game yet and I think Weis agrees. But the season is very young.

How can you say that????

Here is the quote by Weis when the media asked him the same question:

Q. I realize they're two completely different situations, but the one thing Pittsburgh and Michigan have in common is perhaps the lack of second half offensive productivity. Is that a concern for you? If so, what steps do you take to alleviate that?

COACH WEIS: First of all, let me refute the second half in Pittsburgh. I recall, we got the ball, went on a 22 play drive, of which 20 counted, scored a touchdown and got the ball back with one minute to go in the third quarter and put the subs in. I don't call that a lack of productivity. I call that completing the game.

Now, I'm more concerned with our lack of our missed opportunities that we had in the Michigan game. I would be more concerned if I felt we got our butts kicked, though. We just did not do a very good job starting with me and working through them. We need to do a better job to play a complete game of 60 minutes than we did last week.

 

[BigIrish]

i think jiggafini is right. we haven't played a full 60 minute game and looked sharp the entire time. in fact that may be the one recurring problem that the irish have to deal with this year. weis appears to have the makings of a great coach, but he's not a miracle worker. this team is going to stumble a little, and it seems to me that this might be the area where they do it. if weis can fix this problem through the course of the year, i think we'll be a very good football team.

 

[weisfaninmass]

i think jiggafini is right. we haven't played a full 60 minute game and looked sharp the entire time. in fact that may be the one recurring problem that the irish have to deal with this year. weis appears to have the makings of a great coach, but he's not a miracle worker. this team is going to stumble a little, and it seems to me that this might be the area where they do it. if weis can fix this problem through the course of the year, i think we'll be a very good football team.

Did you guys want Weis to play the starters through the fourth quarter in the PITT game??? I could only imagine your comments if an injury occured to Quinn or Walker w a 35 point lead. The team had a 20 play, eat 8+ mins off the clock - and score a TD in the second half to seal the game.....What more do you want? Did you want us to score 60 so to add embarassment for PITT?? Are you playing these guys in a Fantasy league??

 

[BigIrish]

Did you guys want Weis to play the starters through the fourth quarter in the PITT game??? I could only imagine your comments if an injury occured to Quinn or Walker w a 35 point lead. The team had a 20 play, eat 8+ mins off the clock - and score a TD in the second half to seal the game.....What more do you want? Did you want us to score 60 so to add embarassment for PITT?? Are you playing these guys in a Fantasy league??

hmmm....i think you've misinterpreted my comments. i'm not expecting all the starters out there during a blowout in the fourth quarter. but the irish came out a little shaky right from the second half at pitt. execution suffered a little. and fortunately, the 20 play drive you mentioned was kept alive by an ALARMINGLY STUPID penalty on pitt's defense. does that negate the touchdown? of course not. but it doesn't mean that the irish were hitting on all cylinders during that drive either.

against michigan, the game was not out of reach. although michigan wasn't performing in the red zone, they moved the ball the second half and were threatening to score. and even though charlie's playcalling was a little less aggressive in the second have, you can't argue with the fact that the execution simply wasn't up to snuff.

it's basically this - when you ask "what more do you want?" i want the first team offense to score every time they get the ball. that's what i want. and we haven't done that consistently yet. that's all we're saying. pull the starters when the game is secured, whether it's the third quarter or the end of the game.

 

[BigIrish]

actually, now that i think about it, i want the second team players to score when they get the ball as well. i don't think weis is putting them in there to practice their three and out routines.

 

[weisfaninmass]

Michigan second half is a whole different discussion.

To use the Pitt game as concern for the Irish second half offense is wrong. Facts are as follows: the had the ball for 1 possession in the third quarter -- they scored. First punt didn't occur until 4th quarter. Sorry but the Irish are not gonna score every possession. (Fact). And the second team marched down the field while we all we watching a feature on Chief Justice Renquist death...oh by the way - the second unit moved the ball the length of the field and then took 3 knees at the Pitt 10 yardline.

 

[jiggafini19]

They won't score every possession, but 15-10 in the second half in the first two games? Not gonna work. Comfy first half leads will not hold up against this next round of opponents. They'd better be ready to get some points up in the second 30 minutes.

Prepare yourselves for the possibility that ND might be behind at halftime on Saturday. MSU hasn't been tested yet, but they're still good. Hope I'm wrong, but it's possible. Sloppy second halves won't cut it when behind.

 

[BigIrish]

Michigan second half is a whole different discussion.

To use the Pitt game as concern for the Irish second half offense is wrong. Facts are as follows: the had the ball for 1 possession in the third quarter -- they scored. First punt didn't occur until 4th quarter. Sorry but the Irish are not gonna score every possession. (Fact). And the second team marched down the field while we all we watching a feature on Chief Justice Renquist death...oh by the way - the second unit moved the ball the length of the field and then took 3 knees at the Pitt 10 yardline.

right. and i understand that that we won't score on every possession. (duh) but that's what we should aspire to. and the simple "fact" of the matter is that we've scored exactly one offensive touchdown in the two second halves that we've played. is there a chance that its just a coincidence or that its just an early season kink that needs to be worked out? sure.

by no means am i getting down on the irish here. cripes, i'm as excited as the next guy. but it is also possible to be a fan and still be able to objectively critique their flaws.

 

[jiggafini19]

but it is also possible to be a fan and still be able to objectively critique their flaws.

AHA! I've been waiting for someone to come along and join me. Thanks Big Irish.

Any little tidbit of criticism is taken as "anti-ND" rhetoric by anyone in the media. Nonsense. There are some who are and that have agendas, but the coverage is pretty even when you look at it honestly. And if there are people in the media who are anti-ND, so what? Good for them. Everyone had allegiance to someone at some point. If Keith Jackson grips USC, God bless. That's HIS problem. Everyone grew up rooting for a team at some point. Think Jay Bilas isn't stoked when Duke beats UNC? Peter Gammons was probably bursting in his shorts when the Red Sox won it last year. Lou Holtz has been grinning ear to ear the past two weeks. You think Michigan fans like hearing Holtz and Herbstreit praise ND? Again, not my problem, but they're probably thinking anti-UM thoughts.

There was a post about Aaron Taylor being a bandwagon hopper. Please. They may be a Catholic school, but they ain't God folks. Tell it like it is. This anti-Notre Dame thing seems more and more to me like it exists only in the minds of those of us who are pro-ND. Every team in America has an us versus them complex.

I'd like to see a strong second half and I think we'll get one soon. This team is getting better and more confident, but the wins need to keep coming. Even if a loss should occur, I doubt it will be a blowout. Duke basketball has a knack for making opponents play a full game. They're a tough out. I see ND under this staff being just that. You might beat them, but you're going to have to earn it all the way through.

(Sorry, I'm a bit angry today because the White Sox are going to choke and miss the playoffs. The Bears suck, too. ND is all I have.)