The game HAS changed....

[kmoose]

Wiesbank, you said this, in the previous thread:

Like I said, they dont talk about "the game has changed" at USC, Florida, Texas, Alabama, LSU, Oklahoma etc etc etc.

These are traditional powers that have had ups and downs but not 15 year downs.

I'm going to presume that you are just going off of fallible memory, as opposed to presuming that you are too stupid to realize how wrong you are.

From 1993-2008, ND's record is 119-74-1. They have been ranked in the final AP poll 8 times, including 2 times in the Top 10.


USC:

From 1985-2000, USC's record was 114-74-4. They were ranked in the final AP poll 6 times, including 2 times in the Top 10.

Forida

Florida has been a very good program for a few decades now. I would have had to have gone back too far, to find a 15 year stretch similar to what ND is going through now. However, they have had their own issues, albeit on a smaller scale: from 1993-1998, Florida did not lose more than 2 games in any one season. Over the course of the next 6 years, they lost 3 or more games 5 of the 6 years.

Texas

From 1982-1997, Texas' record was 112-72-2. They finished in the final AP poll 6 times, including 1 time in the Top 10.

Alabama

From 1983-1998, Alabama was 131-62-1. They finished in the final AP poll 11 times, including 5 times in the Top 10.

LSU

From 1984-1999, LSU's record was 102-78-4. They finished in the final AP poll 7 times, including 2 times in the Top 10.

Oklahoma

From 1988-2003, Oklahoma's record was 125-64-3. They finished in the final AP poll 8 times, including 4 times in the Top 10.


So you can see, of the schools mentioned, only Alabama and Florida have NOT had a 15 year run somewhat similar to ND's last 15 years. The reason that you don't hear those schools bitching now, is because they have made the adjustments to the game as it has changed. As previously mentioned, those schools will go out and find JUCO players to fill holes in their rosters. These JUCO transfers may not be stars, but they are usually the big uglies up front, who are paving the road for the stars. Or protecting the star's blindside. ND doesn't have that luxury. That's not the only thing that is holding them back, but it certainly is a good example of what is contributing to the sagging performance of the football program.

 

[weisbank4]

Wiesbank, you said this, in the previous thread:



I'm going to presume that you are just going off of fallible memory, as opposed to presuming that you are too stupid to realize how wrong you are.

From 1993-2008, ND's record is 119-74-1. They have been ranked in the final AP poll 8 times, including 2 times in the Top 10.


USC:

From 1985-2000, USC's record was 114-74-4. They were ranked in the final AP poll 6 times, including 2 times in the Top 10.

Forida

Florida has been a very good program for a few decades now. I would have had to have gone back too far, to find a 15 year stretch similar to what ND is going through now. However, they have had their own issues, albeit on a smaller scale: from 1993-1998, Florida did not lose more than 2 games in any one season. Over the course of the next 6 years, they lost 3 or more games 5 of the 6 years.

Texas

From 1982-1997, Texas' record was 112-72-2. They finished in the final AP poll 6 times, including 1 time in the Top 10.

Alabama

From 1983-1998, Alabama was 131-62-1. They finished in the final AP poll 11 times, including 5 times in the Top 10.

LSU

From 1984-1999, LSU's record was 102-78-4. They finished in the final AP poll 7 times, including 2 times in the Top 10.

Oklahoma

From 1988-2003, Oklahoma's record was 125-64-3. They finished in the final AP poll 8 times, including 4 times in the Top 10.


So you can see, of the schools mentioned, only Alabama and Florida have NOT had a 15 year run somewhat similar to ND's last 15 years. The reason that you don't hear those schools bitching now, is because they have made the adjustments to the game as it has changed. As previously mentioned, those schools will go out and find JUCO players to fill holes in their rosters. These JUCO transfers may not be stars, but they are usually the big uglies up front, who are paving the road for the stars. Or protecting the star's blindside. ND doesn't have that luxury. That's not the only thing that is holding them back, but it certainly is a good example of what is contributing to the sagging performance of the football program.

Well your argument actually proves my point that nothing has changed. These schools are all "back" and not bitching about the good ole days or saying they need to adjust expectations down. This is exactly why Notre Dame fans shouldnt adjust anything either.

I dont expect ND to win a NC every year, its naive, but I do expect them to be in the discussion every year.

A lot of people like to say ND is the Yankees of CFB. I agree. Yankees fans expect a WS title every year. It doesnt happen but they demand excellence and will get restless after a drought. Thats where Im at and I know a lot of ND fans are also tired of this rough patch.

 

[kmoose]

Well your argument actually proves my point that nothing has changed. These schools are all "back" and not bitching about the good ole days or saying they need to adjust expectations down. This is exactly why Notre Dame fans shouldnt adjust anything either.

I dont expect ND to win a NC every year, its naive, but I do expect them to be in the discussion every year.

A lot of people like to say ND is the Yankees of CFB. I agree. Yankees fans expect a WS title every year. It doesnt happen but they demand excellence and will get restless after a drought. Thats where Im at and I know a lot of ND fans are also tired of this rough patch.

My argument proves the point that the game has changed. It also aindicates that these other schools have adjusted to the changes in the game. ND has resisted making the changes that these other schools have already made. Until they do, it is unrealistic for fans to expect them to keep up. Demanding excellence is one thing. Expecting it is another thing, entirely.

 

[weisbank4]

My argument proves the point that the game has changed. It also aindicates that these other schools have adjusted to the changes in the game. ND has resisted making the changes that these other schools have already made. Until they do, it is unrealistic for fans to expect them to keep up. Demanding excellence is one thing. Expecting it is another thing, entirely.

The one point I will agree where the game has changed is inovative schemes to help "level the playing field" - like the spread offense.

There are certainly more teams that are competitive these days. All in All though there are still only a handful of elite teams year in and year out.

ND has loosened quite a bit as well though. They allow early admissions and red shirt kids now. They never used to. Freshman never saw the field as a rule, thats gone. ND has evolved to a lot of these things.

 

[JefMaj]

Might not have been the best stretch, however, we've gone 21 years without a National Championship - screwed in '93???

I do point out that USC went what? 28 years without? Tennessee - 31 years; Bama 20+; LSU - 41; UM - 49; Georgia 28; Texas - 32.... Florida has had a hot streak - however, for the first 120 years........

 

[kmoose]

The one point I will agree where the game has changed is inovative schemes to help "level the playing field" - like the spread offense.

There are certainly more teams that are competitive these days. All in All though there are still only a handful of elite teams year in and year out.

ND has loosened quite a bit as well though. They allow early admissions and red shirt kids now. They never used to. Freshman never saw the field as a rule, thats gone. ND has evolved to a lot of these things.

I know that this is kind of a nit picky thing, but ND does not redshirt. In a redshirt situation, the school petitions the NCAA for another year of eligibility, and it is granted or not. This can be done at the end of any season. A guy who doesn't play his freshman year, can finish out the year, be granted a redshirt, and still have 4 years of eligibility left. ND will not go this route. You can earn a fifth year, at ND, but only if you have graduated in 4 years, and have been accepted to, and enrolled in, a post graduate program. So you can not play a down in your freshman year, and not get that year back, if you don't finish your undergraduate degree in those first 4 years. You may still not get it back, if you are not accepted into one of the graduate programs at ND. Compare this to Matt Leinhart taking Ballroom Dancing in his 5th year, and you can see that it makes it tougher to recruit the kids who "know" that they are going to be good enough to play in the NFL. I think the Administration could lower some of the "standards" such as this, but they have been reluctant to. And it's kind of hard to disagree with them. Looking at it from the Administration's perspective. Their job is to educate students, first, and field good sports programs, second. I expect them to struggle to keep up with the elite in college football, until they do. I have been critical of the team, when they have played poorly. But I expect that they will be a step behind the elite programs.

 

[tonyroberts4life]

I have been quite frustrated over the past 10 years or so but seeing these stats puts things into perspective for me! I felt for the longest time like ND was on an island that was slowly shrinking, and I was one of the many to call out weis, BUT have seen improvement and am getting very optimistic about the near future of this program. I am not shamed to say that I have moved to the weis supporter's side and would like to give him a chance to BUILD this program back to what it was. The talent is not dropping it is getting better every year. Defensively this team needs to (and will) get better. Patience will bring this team back to the top, and we as fans need to take a backseat to the decision makers and let things develop. GO IRISH!!