Talent vs. Experience...........

[kmoose]

Ok, it's time to clear the air on some things, and put some myths to rest.

1. Notre Dame has had year after year of great recruiting classes.

I can only use Rivals.com for rankings, but here are the rankings of the classes currently represented on this team:

2003 (5th year seniors): This recruiting class was ranked 12th, with the class having an average star rating of 3.41

2004: 32nd, with 2.83 stars average

2005: 40th, with 3.00 stars average

2006: 8th, with 3.46 stars average

2007: 8th, with 3.72 stars average

So it's obvious that the "talent" is heavy in the freshman and sophomore classes. And that's what we are seeing, on the field. Aldridge, Clausen, Kamara, Parris, Tate...these have been the the guys that have made plays on offense this year. Carlson is the obvious upper classman exception.

2. Other teams are doing well, with their freshmen

I'm not going to look at each and every D-IA team's depth chart, but I seriously doubt that any of them are more heavily loaded with Freshmen and sophomores than ND's. Going off of ND's depth chart, and only going on the two deep (some of the numbers are skewed because, for instance, at TB; there are four guys listed as the #2).

On offense: On defense:

FR = 5 FR = 3
SO = 10 SO = 7
JR = 6 JR = 4
SR = 3 SR = 9

That's 15 of 24 offensive players on the two deep that are either Freshmen or Sophomores, and 10 of the 23, on defense.

Someone earlier pointed to Georgia, and their 3 Freshmen OLinemen. That's not a fair comparison. First of all, only 2 of those 3 are true Freshmen. The other one is a Redshirt Freshman, meaning that he was able to practice with the team for an entire season last year. So he should already know the system. Plus, if he was healthy enough, he took part in contact drills, and got to develop and learn the techniques their coaches use, even though he didn't get to participate in any of the actual games. Plus, Georgia may have 3 Freshmen OLinemen, but they also have 2 Sr. Linemen to help them along. They have a Sr. and Jr. wideouts, a So. QB who was the starter last year, and while they list a Redshirt Freshman as their starting tailback, his backup is a Sr.
So it's not really a fair comparison, because those three Freshmen have all kinds of experience around them.

It's pretty obvious that those who are talking about ND's youth and inexperience have a point. And it's equally obvious that ND has not been recruiting 5 star talent for years. That's not to say that this is the only thing wrong, but do you really think it isn't making righting the ship more difficult?

 

[Timugen]

Eagle in Atlanta -- atleagle.com: A tale of two offensive lines

An interesting read.

 

[goldandblue]

Yeah, interesting. Should we really be looking for some coaching changes to happen this year?? Does anyone think that will be a reality come the end of the season?

 

[NDOM]

Yeah, interesting. Should we really be looking for some coaching changes to happen this year?? Does anyone think that will be a reality come the end of the season?

I think it COULD happen but it wont. I think first and foremost that John Latina needs to be canned like right now. I never liked the guy from the get go and what has he really accomplished? Even last year Brady Quinn was scrambling for his life most of the time and thank god we had a back that could make some moves and gain positive yards. So John Latina needs to be fired, if not; expect the same results from the o-line next year. Corwin Brown has done and ok job but the run defense is terrible. Overall i'm not impressed with Corwin or the so called 3-4 defense. Not throwing him under the bus yet. Charlie Weis SHOULD be on the hot seat. Fired? Probly not but there's no excuse for Notre Dame football to be this pathetic and I'm wondering if something is going on that we just dont know about. Guess we will have to wait till next year to find out. I expect nothing worse than 9 or 10 wins. If Notre Dame goes 7-5 or 8-4 then the coaching staff needs to be all fired and we need to start right back from the beginning.

 

[goldandblue]

I agree with Latina being fired. I don't yet beleive Weis or Brown should be canned. So what your saying is you think the entire coaching staff that is there now will be there next year. I was really hoping for a new coach at o-line. It should be pretty easy to get a good coach in there with the talent we have brought/coming in.

 

[NDOM]

I agree with Latina being fired. I don't yet beleive Weis or Brown should be canned. So what your saying is you think the entire coaching staff that is there now will be there next year. I was really hoping for a new coach at o-line. It should be pretty easy to get a good coach in there with the talent we have brought/coming in.

I dont think Brown or Weis should be fired YET! John Latina YES! Now to answer your question I think the whole coaching staff will be back next year (Unfortunately). I dont see Weis firing Latina but he should. He may or may not i'm just not sure. Now then if Weis doesnt fire Latina and the o-line is this bad next year and the main cause of a bunch of losses then they both need to be fired.

 

[JeremyND07]

I dont think Brown or Weis should be fired YET! John Latina YES! Now to answer your question I think the whole coaching staff will be back next year (Unfortunately). I dont see Weis firing Latina but he should. He may or may not i'm just not sure. Now then if Weis doesnt fire Latina and the o-line is this bad next year and the main cause of a bunch of losses then they both need to be fired.

Latina has to go...he has did nothing with the top talent we get every year on the oline. I think Weis should wait until March/April to fire Latina so he does not scare off any potential recruits unless the guy he brings in is a big name guy! Latina is a likeable guy, he is just not getting the results on the OL. Corwin does not have the personal for a 3-4 defense!!!!! So my judgement on him will come next year when he gets the big NG and big OLB guys he needs for the 3-4 system! I also think we need a new special teams coach!!!!!!! FG unit is horrible, kick return team is BAD, kick coverage team is worse, and we even had issues with a veteran punter who had all-american hopes coming into this year. OL Coach first and Special teams is a VERY close 2nd!!!!

 

[NDOM]

Latina has to go...he has did nothing with the top talent we get every year on the oline. I think Weis should wait until March/April to fire Latina so he does not scare off any potential recruits unless the guy he brings in is a big name guy! Latina is a likeable guy, he is just not getting the results on the OL. Corwin does not have the personal for a 3-4 defense!!!!! So my judgement on him will come next year when he gets the big NG and big OLB guys he needs for the 3-4 system! I also think we need a new special teams coach!!!!!!! FG unit is horrible, kick return team is BAD, kick coverage team is worse, and we even had issues with a veteran punter who had all-american hopes coming into this year. OL Coach first and Special teams is a VERY close 2nd!!!!

I agree with that. Good point. Kinda what I have been saying except for the fact that you brought up a damn good and valid point. SPECIAL TEAMS coach. Indeed we need one of those. Hire Frank Beamer from Va Tech.

 

[goldandblue]

One thing Weis should consider is that if The o-line does not improve next year and the Wins do not accumulate next year, He probably won't have to worry about firing Latina, cause he won't be there to fire him.

 

[NDOM]

One thing Weis should consider is that if The o-line does not improve next year and the Wins do not accumulate next year, He probably won't have to worry about firing Latina, cause he won't be there to fire him.

That also could be true. I can see that happening. I mentioned that in my post too. If Weis is stupid enough to keep Latina and they arent much better than this year they both will be canned. And that would be very bad for us Notre Dame fans.

 

[goldandblue]

Not necessarily bad for us. Obviously, if Weis can not bring this team up to par next year, we don't need him around anyway. If he's to foolish to not hire a new o-line coach and possibly ruin his job, How smart is he?

 

[NDOM]

Not necessarily bad for us. Obviously, if Weis can not bring this team up to par next year, we don't need him around anyway. If he's to foolish to not hire a new o-line coach and possibly ruin his job, How smart is he?

He's an offensive genius remember? I'm still waiting for that this year.

 

[Timugen]

He's an offensive genius remember? I'm still waiting for that this year.

You silly person. Don't you realize that the Athletic Department has been in negotiations with Richard Simmons for rights to adapt "Deal-A-Meal" to "Deal-An-Excuse?" Get with it, man.

 

[bbrennan]

I think the Talent vs Experience question can also be asked of our coaching staff. I spoke about this in a prior thread, but if you look at the "talent" and experience of our coaching staff it is fairly poor for what could/should be expected of ND.

Let's face it, CW is learning on the job. He had no college experience. I think he is learning - I point to the lessons he obviously learned about recruiting last year. To me, one of the things he still needs to learn is the importance of good assistant coaches. I question whether guys like Ianello (who might be a very good recruiter) and Polian are really good, experienced assistants. Brown I lump into the same category, and much like CW, he is learning on the job.

I in no way advocate letting CW go, even after next year unless the season is a repeat of this year. Before talking about letting CW go, think of who will be his replacement. Hopefully White and leaders at ND remember the situation when Ty was let go. Good coaches don't seem to knocking down ND's door to be coach.

 

[NDOM]

You silly person. Don't you realize that the Athletic Department has been in negotiations with Richard Simmons for rights to adapt "Deal-A-Meal" to "Deal-An-Excuse?" Get with it, man.

Good one dude.