Slimin' Maisel

[Rip Rap]

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=8066

Jason (Portland, ME): Can Charlie Weis hold Notre Dame together for the next couple of years until he gets his players in there without being fired? If he can, do you think he can really make a difference and get Notre Dame back in the Top 10?

Ivan Maisel: (1:18 PM ET ) This is what ND gets for firing Ty Willingham after three years. They've got a coach who hasn't been on the sideline yet, won't be for four months, and a fan wants to know if he can hang on for two years without ND firing him. Frankly, the university deserves it. I think Weis is a talented coach, and I expect him to do well. Long way to the top 10, though.

First, Charlie Weis is not some Pac-10 lacky offensive coordinator. He called the games from the sideline.

Second, Charlie Weis ain't going to get fired, and if he did he wouldn't be the one making the excuses. Besides, ND isn't a school like Florida, East Carolina, or BYU. We give coaches a full three years to prove themselves. We're more like Stanford in that regard.

 

[Aerosmith777]

hey, if he can recruit (and all the preliminary reports seem to suggest he can) he'll get 5 years no matter his record! (well, within reason) If Notre Dame fires its coaches so quickly based on wins alone, then why did Bob Davie and Gerry Faust get 5 years a piece? answer: Because they could actually recruit despite they & their teams' ineptness on the field.

I don't get it, how does firing one coach one time in less than 5 years make you an impatient program, but when ECU fires like 3 coaches in 3 years that's ok?

 

[sblxdoc]

I don't get it, how does firing one coach one time in less than 5 years make you an impatient program, but when ECU fires like 3 coaches in 3 years that's ok?

because its notre dame and everyone loves to hate 'em. go maisel!

 

[KMac151993]

Just proof once agian that most people working at ESPN are idiots and know nothing about sports.

 

[KMac151993]

I think the bigger issue at hand is when is Ivan Maisel going to grow a pair, and stop being a cry baby.

 

[Aerosmith777]

because its notre dame and everyone loves to hate 'em. go maisel!

yeah, I guess you're right. Comes w/ the territory of being the greatest & most storied college football program in history. Can't wait 'til Weis has these kids on top again, the bandwagon will fill up pretty quick.

 

[Vince Young]

I know defending ESPN isn't the brightest thing to do around here, but it seems to me that Maisel was saying more about Notre Dame's fan-base than he was about Notre Dame itself.

And he only said one thing about Charlie Weis: "I think Weis is a talented coach, and I expect him to do well." Yeah, what a crushing insult that was, eh?

 

[jiggafini19]

If they start to allow spring and summer early enrollments, look out. I think that is something that is very important to players. So many like Miami, USC, Ohio State do it and their players go on to succeed at the next level.

This Weis and Co. staff are probably the best collective group of recruiters in the country. Every guy had recruiting in his resume in a major way. 6 verbals and it is only May. I am guessing that by the tiime ND kicks off against Pitt, they could have 10-15 if they keep it up.

 

[Aerosmith777]

I know defending ESPN isn't the brightest thing to do around here, but it seems to me that Maisel was saying more about Notre Dame's fan-base than he was about Notre Dame itself.

And he only said one thing about Charlie Weis: "I think Weis is a talented coach, and I expect him to do well." Yeah, what a crushing insult that was, eh?

"...This is what ND gets for firing Ty Willingham after three years. They've got a coach who hasn't been on the sideline yet, won't be for four months, and a fan wants to know if he can hang on for two years without ND firing him. Frankly, the university deserves it..."

I fail to see how that's not a knock on the university? He's saying that ND fans are anxious over whether Charlie will get the proper amount of time to have success as a result of the Ty firing, and even justifies those (irrational) fears in some Irish fans by saying "Frankly, the university deserves it" Basically he's saying that by firing Willingham, Irish fans should question the competence of the university administration in when they decide to give their own employees the axe. nevermind that it was the first time that's ever happenned & all precedents suggest that ND generally gives its coaches the full 5 years, and that this was an isolated incedent w/ a coach that A. Can't recruit. B. Made no strides on offense (his side of the ball). & C. Didn't even seem like he wanted to be there anymore.

 

[Vince Young]

I fail to see how that's not a knock on the university?

Never said it wasn't. *shrug* It just seemed to me that his main point was about the Irish fan base. And if he's so anti-Notre Dame and is so against the Ty-firing, then why is he saying he expects Weis to do well?

There's much more egregious examples of ESPN's coverage of Notre Dame out there. This is pretty tame by comparison. And in the end, it's all worthless speculation anyway, because the season doesn't even start until late August.

Let's win some games first. THEN we can go back and make everyone eat their words.

 

[jiggafini19]

Let's win some games first. THEN we can go back and make everyone eat their words.

V-Young hits it on the nose here. 6 verbals this early is strictly on blind faith that Weis and Staff will build this thing back up. If 2005 yields success, they will have a top 3 class on their hands. The REAL sales job will be the results on the field this upcoming year.

This will be a tough campaign. There is not a lot of depth, so starters will have to stay healthy. The secondary has me cringing and it is May. With the schedule they play and the offenses their opponents run, ND had better be ready to defend the pass. It is the Achilles of the team and it won't take a genius to notice.

The recruiting process to this point has been exciting and cause for optimism. But these 6 guys have not signed letters and if/when they do, they still won't be here for another year. The only teams that have more talent than ND on the schedule are USC, Michigan and Tennessee. ND beat 2 of those 3 teams last season.

 

[Rip Rap]

There's much more egregious examples of ESPN's coverage of Notre Dame out there. This is pretty tame by comparison. And in the end, it's all worthless speculation anyway, because the season doesn't even start until late August.

That is exactly why I find Maisel so detestable. Take the example of an obvious ND-hater like Dennis Dodd at CBS: I can dismiss him because he is transparent and sells his position by knocking ND (in order to get the Irish faithful all riled up to read some more of his slams).

But in the case of Ivan Maisel: He plays the game of being 'objective,' and presents himself as balanced, when he is-quite possibly-the most politicized 'journalist' on ESPN's staff (though I would give that honor to Pat Forde, particularly after he informed the world that Kansas' Mangino was a top candidate for the head-coaching position at Notre Dame, being so kind as to include his record when he 'reported' that wonderful tidbit of misinformation). Here Maisel is casually promoting a position that preserves a particular perception that ESPN invented.

The ESPN party-line is to say that Willingham is an elite coach who was at a school with absurd expectations, fired prematurely by a reactionary Board that doesn't know what they're doing. In this brief sample, Maisel just wrote the same stuff for their website that Alberts, et. al. were saying on the television. Again. Four months later.

 

[Vince Young]

Maisel just wrote the same stuff for their website that Alberts, et. al. were saying on the television. Again. Four months later.

And they're gonna keep saying it until Charlie Weis starts winning football games. Get used to it.

Here's the bottom line: it's fricken' MAY. Ty got fired 4 months ago, and the season doesn't start for another 4 months. Everyone made up their mind on this topic 4 months ago, and they're not going to change their mind until they have a reason to, and they won't have a reason to until the season starts. Maisel isn't going to change any minds, and he's not going to do any new damage to Notre Dame with a couple of sentences written in May. Let him run his mouth.

 

[Guest]

And they're gonna keep saying it until Charlie Weis starts winning football games. Get used to it.

Even when Charlie starts winning games ESPN will still slam us. They'll say Weis is winning with Ty's players, they'll say Weis is getting players in that Ty couldn't (early enrollment).

 

[Rip Rap]

Even when Charlie starts winning games ESPN will still slam us. They'll say Weis is winning with Ty's players, they'll say Weis is getting players in that Ty couldn't (early enrollment).

I really don't want to be the reactionary guy-against-the-media-all-the-time guy, but I have to agree with QueensNY.

I believe ESPN wants Weis to fail; I believe they want him to be fired (I believe they will even demand he be fired in three years if we don't win a BCS game); I believe they want to convince everybody that ND is the Oakland Raiders of college football (the 80's Hurricanes reincarnate); and, I believe that they will say year-in-and-year-out that Willingham was a great coach unjustifiably fired, doing wonderful things and turning Washington around "just like he did at ND." If we win, they will say we have changed our admissions policy and are admitting hooligans, or that Willingham was an outstanding recruiter and Weis is reaping the benefits, and if we loose they will demand we join a conference.

They are on a mission. And I honestly don't think they will let this die with anything less than a national championship. I do, however, believe that most people who follow college football are smart enough to see that. And if ESPN insists on going down that road, they are only going to do harm to their already worthless reputation.

 

[jiggafini19]

I have done my best to try and avoid the subject of Tyrone Willingham. The horse is no dead it should have been buried twice.

Regardless of whose players Weis wins or loses with, the name on the sweater says NOTRE DAME. The coach in the media guide is CHARLIE WEIS. It will be the same offense and same schedule, one year later.

The buzz around the program is very exciting right now, but it is far too early to start predicting what is going to happen. Pitt is a long way off. The same Pitt team that made fools of ND back in November. Having seen that game in person, that is my lasting impression of Notre Dame.

Weis can do and say the right things now, but until actual football is actually played, I will only get my hopes up about recruiting.

 

[Aerosmith777]

The horse is so dead it should have been buried twice.

lol, I couldn't have said that any better myself. But to be fair, it is ESPN that keeps bringing it up.

I have to agree though, if Notre Dame does start winning early, we still won't have heard the last of it. we will hear everything he was saying, "its Ty's players" "the recruiting policies have changed" etc etc. I do think though that if Willingham really falls on his face in Washington, ESPN may have to eat some crow. Although that's only if Washington keeps him there the full 5 years. If he gets fired early again we'll hear the same old same old. "He didn't have enough time to turn a bad program around"

 

[jiggafini19]

He's going to get burned at Washington. He couldn't beat SC at Stanford or ND, so why should anything change?

I go out of my way not to watch ESPN unless it is a live sporting event. I seriously avoid it like the plague.

 

[Aerosmith777]

I go out of my way not to watch ESPN unless it is a live sporting event. I seriously avoid it like the plague.

Yeah, I probly should do that, but watching ESPN's pieces on Notre Dame is a great way to feed my rage addiction

 

[weisfaninmass]

Even when Charlie starts winning games ESPN will still slam us. They'll say Weis is winning with Ty's players, they'll say Weis is getting players in that Ty couldn't (early enrollment).

It is gonna be worse than that.....Ty won in year 1 and Davie had a good season every other year so people won't stop bashing ND until C-Dub wins big in consecutive years

 

[jiggafini19]

In 2006, he'll have nothing but sophomores and freshmen on the field. The lack of depth is disgusting. He might win with Ty's players, but it will be out of pure coaching I can assure you. If the ND bashers look at the depth chart, they'll have to be honest with themselves.

But the haters have to live with themselves every day. I'm glad I don't have to.