Scholarships by classes

[aaronb]

Fifth Year Senior 2008 (7)

RB Junior Jabbie
DE Justin Brown
LB Maurice Crum Jr, Anthony Vernaglia
CB Terrail Lambert, Leo Ferrine
LS J.J. Jansen

Senior 2009 (15)

QB Evan Sharpley *
RB Asaph Schwapp **
WR David Grimes, D.J. Hord **
OL Paul Duncan, Mike Turkovich, Thomas Bemenderfer
DT Patrick Kuntz, Derrell Hand *
LB Steve Quinn, Scott Smith, Kevin Washington *
S David Bruton, Ray Herring, Kyle McCarthy *

 

[GoshenGipper]

All this assumes no transfers

Yeah I don't think that'll happen, and I don't think all the possible 5th years will be back. I'm guessing the '09 class will have about 18-21 kids in it.

 

[SoCalDomer]

Ahh. The thing to remember is that 5th yrs are not automatic. They have to petition and be approved by the school and CW.

That's why I mentioned that CW took more this year than usual because we were well below the 85 scholarship cap, and we needed experienced bodies to fill the upperclasses.

I would be very suprised if every 5th yrs is asked back for 2008 (mostly because 23-24 incoming frosh's mean we only have 4-5 spots), and even more surprised if more than 2-3 are asked back for 2009.

This isn't inside info, just my opinion, for what it's worth.

 

[aaronb]

You have to be careful not inviting 5th year guys back. It is something that can negatively effect recruiting, if it becomes a habit. Notre Dame's big recruiting advantages are TV exposure and prestige. It is usually the place that parents want their kids to go. You risk losing that advantage when you kick 5th year seniors out because they don't produce enought for you.

 

[GoshenGipper]

You have to be careful not inviting 5th year guys back. It is something that can negatively effect recruiting, if it becomes a habit. Notre Dame's big recruiting advantages are TV exposure and prestige. It is usually the place that parents want their kids to go. You risk losing that advantage when you kick 5th year seniors out because they don't produce enought for you.

ND doesn't kick anyone out. They honor the scholarship for four years unless the player is kicked off the team or out of school.

Then if the player is eligible for a 5th year and they want to come back then they might be asked back for another year if the coaches feel like it's in the best interest of the team, but the player also has to have graduated in 4 or less years and be enrolled in a grad school at ND for them to be eligible for a 5th year at ND.

 

[aaronb]

I understand the University rules in regards to 5th years. I just think it will be used against us in recruiting if we don't honor our commitments. As a parent, would I send my kid to ND if Charlie is in our living room saying."We will offer your kid a scholarship. He will probably redshirt his freshman year. But if he isnt producing on the field. He's gone after the 4th year regardless." The idea behind sending your kid to ND is that they get a top shelf education. Not to be cast aside like it's an NFL program.

 

[GoshenGipper]

I understand the University rules in regards to 5th years. I just think it will be used against us in recruiting if we don't honor our commitments. As a parent, would I send my kid to ND if Charlie is in our living room saying."We will offer your kid a scholarship. He will probably redshirt his freshman year. But if he isnt producing on the field. He's gone after the 4th year regardless." The idea behind sending your kid to ND is that they get a top shelf education. Not to be cast aside like it's an NFL program.

Yeah, but if they haven't already finished their degree on time then they couldn't come back anyway, so they will have recieved their top flight education. Then if someone wanted to state otherwise I'd have a list handy showing the grade rates at ND compared to other football factories. I really don't think you have anything to be worried about. Once the mess that Willingham left behind is all worked out I think you'll see a few brought back each year.

 

[Freeman Ara]

I understand the University rules in regards to 5th years. I just think it will be used against us in recruiting if we don't honor our commitments. As a parent, would I send my kid to ND if Charlie is in our living room saying."We will offer your kid a scholarship. He will probably redshirt his freshman year. But if he isnt producing on the field. He's gone after the 4th year regardless." The idea behind sending your kid to ND is that they get a top shelf education. Not to be cast aside like it's an NFL program.

Ok but if he qualifies for a 5th year hasn't he already accomplished goal one of getting the top shelf education? And if, in 4 years, he hasn't produced on the field to a high enough degree to be asked back then in all honest why would you want him back? And if he has produced at a high enough level on the field he should be looking at getting drafted into the NFL so why would the player want to comeback?

 

[aaronb]

I hope so. I feel we need to plan on accomodating those who wish to come back. 25 recruits per year wont make that happen. It will lead to tons of transfers and junk that other schools have to deal with. The idea is to keep ND special and unique. When ND becomes Tennessee,Texas and USC. It loses it's special-ness(?). Charlie being an alum. Hopefully he realizes this.

 

[aaronb]

And if he has produced at a high enough level on the field he should be looking at getting drafted into the NFL so why would the player want to comeback?

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It's his college years for 1. Some guys go to a university to get an education. Not every player is going to make the NFL. Some guys are more grounded in their pursuits. I think some of us fall into the trap of forgetting this is a college. This isnt the NFL. When Charlie sits in a kids living room and promises his parents that he will take care of their son. I'm sure they arent thinking that he means, "We will take care of your son........ until a better prospect comes along." That is all I am saying.

 

[Freeman Ara]

And if he has produced at a high enough level on the field he should be looking at getting drafted into the NFL so why would the player want to comeback?

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It's his college years for 1. Some guys go to a university to get an education. Not every player is going to make the NFL. Some guys are more grounded in their pursuits. I think some of us fall into the trap of forgetting this is a college. This isnt the NFL. When Charlie sits in a kids living room and promises his parents that he will take care of their son. I'm sure they arent thinking that he means, "We will take care of your son........ until a better prospect comes along." That is all I am saying.

Well I think what your missing here is this, if a player puts himself in position to comeback to play for a fifth year then CW has taken care of the kid and gotten him a great education. And if he has played well enough to be asked back for a fifth year then he should be good enough to be looked at by NFL scouts. Either way CW has better the guy and taken care of his future on and off the field. Now if its determined that he might need another year of college ball to upgrade his draft status or if he wants to comeback to enjoy college for one last year then I don't see CW saying no just because he has fulfilled his 4 year obligation, as long as he helps the team. No matter what its a win-win for the kid. He's going to graduate and not be asked back because he isn't performing on the field, He's going to graduate and get drafted, or he's going to graduate and play another season at ND. CW has fulfilled his obligation in everyway possible, in every case.

 

[johnnd05]

I say let all 7 of the 5th year guys come back. Stick with 21 Recruits in this class. Then you are able to have at least 17 recruits to the 2009 class. As it stands currently. Each guy we add to this class is one guy we subract to next year. If nothing else these 5 year guys add depth and practice bodies.

Jansen- next years long snapper
Vernaglia- Starting ILB next year
Crum- Starting ILB next year
Jabbie- Your 4th TB next year. Do we really want to go to war with only 3?
Ferrine- CB depth, thinnest position on the roster except for TB
Brown- Should be significant contributor to the DL
Bragg- Scout team QB and insurance that we are able to Red-shirt Crist

I don't see anyone on the list that absolutely HAS to go.

Huh? Vernaglia WILL NOT start, and Sharpley will be Clausen's backup - there's no need to keep a fourth QB instead of bringing in a freshman at a "need" position like OL or WR. Plus, I think it's just wrong to say that ND is thin at cornerback - next year they'll have Walls, McNeil, Prince, and Gray as well as Slaughter and Blanton and (if he comes back) Lambert. Nor will they only have three tailbacks, since Jonas Gray (at least) will be on the team next year - though I for one do think that Jabbie should be back.

I'd say that Crum, Lambert, Brown, and Jabbie could all play significant roles next year, and Vernaglia might provide some upperclass leadership. But Weis has said that he'd be comfortable taking up to 25 players for 2008; I don't think he'll turn kids away to hold on to fifth-year guys who hardly even contributed THIS season.

 

[aaronb]

My point is that Weis has an obligation to the 5th year guys FIRST before he offers scollies to HS kids. I feel that if a kid comes in,competes hard, does his work in the classroom, That should be enough. If the kid wants to stay on for a 5th year. He should be able to. Again, this is a collegiate university. It isn't an NFL franchise. I propose a limit on a kid making a decision. Sometime before the 2nd spring semester to decide if they want to come back or not.

 

[Freeman Ara]

My point is that Weis has an obligation to the 5th year guys FIRST before he offers scollies to HS kids. I feel that if a kid comes in,competes hard, does his work in the classroom, That should be enough. If the kid wants to stay on for a 5th year. He should be able to. Again, this is a collegiate university. It isn't an NFL franchise. I propose a limit on a kid making a decision. Sometime before the 2nd spring semester to decide if they want to come back or not.

His obligations are to A) graduate kids in 4 years and B) put the best possible team on the field. If there is a 5th year guy that has worked his butt off but can't beat out 3 or 4 younger guys ahead of him then your burning a schollie for somebody that you hope can come in and contribute at a higher level in the future. I would take a HS stud over a guy that hasn't seen the field in 4 years. Besides, the kid got a first rate education and graduates debt free. Look, I have no problem bringing a guy back over a recruit if the guy is a major contributor or has a chance to become one with maybe one more year of playing time. You just don't hold on to dead wood because he is a good guy. At some point you have to make a "business decision."

 

[aaronb]

He isnt burning a scollie. He is making you use the scollie for the next recruiting class. As it stands. If everyone comes back for a 5th year after next year. You are looking at 16 available scollies.(assuming no trasfers). If you start booting guys and signing extra guys now. It will be less in the 2009 class. Every guy you sign now= one less guy in next years class. This year is a prime example of what happens when you start having >15 player recruiting classes. I personally would prefer seeing 20 players in each class. Strictly for the balance of it. Small classes (2004-2005) lead to lackluster depth. Too many in a class leads to mass trasfer(2006).

 

[Freeman Ara]

He isnt burning a scollie. He is making you use the scollie for the next recruiting class. As it stands. If everyone comes back for a 5th year after next year. You are looking at 16 available scollies.(assuming no trasfers). If you start booting guys and signing extra guys now. It will be less in the 2009 class. Every guy you sign now= one less guy in next years class. This year is a prime example of what happens when you start having >15 player recruiting classes. I personally would prefer seeing 20 players in each class. Strictly for the balance of it. Small classes (2004-2005) lead to lackluster depth. Too many in a class leads to mass trasfer(2006).

I get what your saying but I just don't think you can play ifs and whens in recruiting. I think we still have to take as many kids at key positions (OL) as we can now knowing that we still have the weakest class left in the program. If the kids in Ty's last class can't prove that they can contribute by the end of next year then I think you let them go. We are still to thin/under talented to be turning away kids now so that we can potentially get somebody in the next class. I believe its been said already but I think you will see the number of 5th year guys diminish greatly in the future.

 

[johnnd05]

My point is that Weis has an obligation to the 5th year guys FIRST before he offers scollies to HS kids. I feel that if a kid comes in,competes hard, does his work in the classroom, That should be enough. If the kid wants to stay on for a 5th year. He should be able to. Again, this is a collegiate university. It isn't an NFL franchise. I propose a limit on a kid making a decision. Sometime before the 2nd spring semester to decide if they want to come back or not.

That is patently NOT true. These kids get four year scholarships, and finish their BA's within that time. Nobody is owed a free graduate degree - if they can contribute to the team in a significant enough way and the scholarship slots are there, they'll be back; if not, they won't - and there's NOTHING wrong with that.

 

[KamaraPolice]

GoshenGipper
I Spell Coming Wrong


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