Rick Minter...

[LOVEMYIRISH]

What I don't get is why everyone can say that Notre Dame has NO talent on defense when 99% of the defense was recruited by other big-time BCS schools.

Was Lambert not good enough for Florida State?
Was Laws not good enough for Michigan?
Was Tommy Z not good enough for Nebraska?
Was Ambrose not good enough for Boston College?
Was Brockington not good enough for Pitt?
Was Crum not good enough for Miami?
Was Landri not good enough for USC?
Was M. Thomas not good enough for Alabama?
Was T. Thomas not good enough for Iowa?

Well they should be, because all those schools wanted those kids. Badly.

I don't buy the "we're not good enough, talent-wise" excuse because all these kids could have gone to other big-time programs, but they came here. We owed them better, but Ty and Charlie's choices of defensive coaches let them down. Plain and simple.

As I said before, the guys NOT on the line were all 3 or 2 star talent (except Zibby and Wooden).

3-star is 3-star.

Who cares who recruited them? Plenty of guys ride the pine at those schools. These guys most definitely would have.

 

[ND_Ownz!]

www.FireRickMinter.com/ASAP

 

[Specnatz]

Take this for what it is worth. One thing about the guy who charlie hired has to do with a death, in a crash. So i think it would be hard for Charlie to fire the guy.

With that said, the speed on defense is not there. There is no way you put this solely on the D-cords shoulders. the talent is just not there compared to sc, there are twice as fast as us. There is plenty of blame to go around but that is like blaming all the sacks on David Carr last year to the OC and not the HC and Gm who did not draft a fucking lineman.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Good point Colin, only thing is that Zibby was recruited to play QB by Nebraska

Why is it a good point? The defensive backfield at ND is filled with 3 star guys.

As for comparisons: Iowa? Pitt? BC? Bama?

Those are second tier teams. If that's who we are competing against in recruiting all is lost.

 

[GREENJERSEYS'07]

www.FireRickMinter.com/ASAP

That's not even real.if your going to make it up then go ahead and start it!!!!

 

[ColinKSU]

Good point Colin, only thing is that Zibby was recruited to play QB by Nebraska

Oh, I recognize that, but I could have just as easily said about 10 other schools for Tommy.

He was listed as an athlete by a lot of people coming out of H.S. and was thought of as a Saftey/Corner prospect more than anything. It's not lik him being moves to SS was a shock to anyone.

Just using the "name" school like Nebrsaka to make a point, more than anything. That was a TOP, TOP, TOP level D-1 school when Tommy was coming out and they wanted him to be the leader of their team's attack at a position that demanded elite athleticism.

 

[marv81s]

Do I feel like a fool sticking up for Minter all season. I can't do it tonight. Severely disappointed by tonights effort, but we had two golden opportunities given to the offense thanks to our Defense and what did we get out of it? 2 ints our D got in that 2nd quarter and no points, none.

Would it have matered? maybe not, but we'll never know.

But, 3 TDs given up right away made us one dimensional. Fucked us from the get go.

Hope most of those highly rated recruits that were there tonight don't put too much stock into this game tonight and base their decision on that performance.

 

[ColinKSU]

Why is it a good point? The defensive backfield at ND is filled with 3 star guys.

As for comparisons: Iowa? Pitt? BC? Bama?

Those are second tier teams. If that's who we are competing against in recruiting all is lost.

I'd be psyched to have the consistant success that Iowa has had under Ferentz.

Newsflash:

We sucked under Davieham while Iowa was at the top of the Big 10.

And while we're at it, BC was a top Big East school and is a top ACC school. They've had our number forever and they are a VERY consistantly good team. The way we've played since Lou left South Bend, we'd be lucky to have that kind of success.

If a "second-tier" school can compete for the Big 10 and ACC titles with regularity, then what have WE been lately?

 

[VictorsValiant]

Terry Bowden made an excellent point early in the season about how you can scheme offense but not defense. He's right. Good defenses are defined by two simple characteristics: Talent and Effort. Not having talent kills your defense. Not having effort results in underachieving.

You guys are talking about how other teams win with less, but that's mainly a bias you (and others) have against teams you think are inferior to the big name schools. For example, Wisconsin has had physically gifted players on the DL for years. Their secondary is a little shoddy, but the fact that they can get pressure makes them a good defense. Same with Rutgers. They may not have size, but they all have speed. Nd's defense didn't look like it had size, speed or strength. On defense, you must have something to stand on.

Unless Nd gets RECRUITS, their defense will continue to suffer. The main thing is recruiting, and some of the blame there lies with Charlie Weis. It will be interesting to see what happens in this year's recruiting, esp. on defense.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Oh, I recognize that, but I could have just as easily said about 10 other schools for Tommy.

He was listed as an athlete by a lot of people coming out of H.S. and was thought of as a Saftey/Corner prospect more than anything. It's not lik him being moves to SS was a shock to anyone.

Just using the "name" school like Nebrsaka to make a point, more than anything. That was a TOP, TOP, TOP level D-1 school when Tommy was coming out and they wanted him to be the leader of their team's attack at a position that demanded elite athleticism.

Wooden and Tommy were the only two backfield players that were highly rated. The rest were average and were generally recruited by average teams.

Zibby was recruited as an athlete by most schools. He should been a LB though.

 

[goldenechoes]

Minter doesnt do more with less. For that reason alone he should be fired.

Our defense hasnt improved one iota since Ty and crew were fired.

 

[ColinKSU]

Wooden and Tommy were the only two backfield players that were highly rated. The rest were average and were generally recruited by average teams.

Zibby was recruited as an athlete by most schools. He should been a LB though.

I don't know what DC in the country you could convince to put Tommy at LB. He's only 6'0", and that's generous. I've hung out with the kid, I'm 5'7" and he's only a couple of inches taller than I am. I'd say he's more like 5'10" and 200lbs.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I'd be psyched to have the consistant success that Iowa has had under Ferentz.

Newsflash:

We sucked under Davieham while Iowa was at the top of the Big 10.

That was bad coaching. Davie had the talent. Ty stopped recruiting it.

And while we're at it, BC was a top Big East school and is a top ACC school. They've had our number forever and they are a VERY consistantly good team. The way we've played since Lou left South Bend, we'd be lucky to have that kind of success.

BC is a joke. They are top of a shit heap right now...and not even top. They just lost to Miami.

If a "second-tier" school can compete for the Big 10 and ACC titles with regularity, then what have WE been lately?

Under Davie and Willingham, badly coached. Under Weis, rebuildling.

However, once you put in Weis, the coaching improvement showed. However, Iowa will never win the BigTen...nor will BC ever play for the NC.

If you want to play for it all, you need the talent.

I don't want to be like Iowa and seen as OVER-ACHEIVING when we get 10 wins. I want 10 wins to be a good season, but with room for improvement.

 

[ColinKSU]

That was bad coaching. Davie had the talent. Ty stopped recruiting it.



BC is a joke. They are top of a shit heap right now...and not even top. They just lost to Miami.



Under Davie and Willingham, badly coached. Under Weis, rebuildling.

However, once you put in Weis, the coaching improvement showed. However, Iowa will never win the BigTen...nor will BC ever play for the NC.

If you want to play for it all, you need the talent.

I don't want to be like Iowa and seen as OVER-ACHEIVING when we get 10 wins. I want 10 wins to be a good season, but with room for improvement.

Well, then you should probably go to Columbus and root for Thug U because that's the school that can get a 10-win season every year because they can recruit anyone they want, criminal records be damned.

In the real world, you need good coaches to win at Notre Dame, and we don't have that on the defensive side of the ball. We have players that a lot of schools wanted, but we don't have the pick of the litter because we simply CAN'T get them.

I'd venture a guess to say that 60% of USC and OSU's players are kids who couldn't get into Notre Dame. I don't like those odds of matching up unless we have a coach who can get the best out of what we have.

We have that on offense. Charlie got the most out of that side of the ball.

We don't have that on defense. Rick Minter apparently forgets to bring game plans to games that matter.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Minter doesnt do more with less. For that reason alone he should be fired.

Our defense hasnt improved one iota since Ty and crew were fired.

Actually, they are much improved. How scary is that?

In 2004 we gave up 24.1 points per game. In 2006 about 21.

In 2004, we gave up 370 yards/game. In 2006 - 313.

Passing Defense is FAR more interesting.
In 2004 we gave up 281.3 yards per game.
In 2005 we gave up 186.1 yards per game.

100 yards less per game???

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Well, then you should probably go to Columbus and root for Thug U because that's the school that can get a 10-win season every year because they can recruit anyone they want, criminal records be damned.

Why go to Columbus when it can be done here?

In fact, Minter DID it here. He's done it before, I don't see that he can't do it again. Give him some talent though...otherwise, our D will be just like the second tier teams we recruited against in the 2004 and 2005 class (Ty's last two years).

 

[PMac]

Actually, they are much improved. How scary is that?

In 2004 we gave up 24.1 points per game. In 2006 about 21.

In 2004, we gave up 370 yards/game. In 2006 - 313.

Passing Defense is FAR more interesting.
In 2004 we gave up 281.3 yards per game.
In 2005 we gave up 186.1 yards per game.

100 yards less per game???

big deal.

USC 44 ND 24

we gave up 37 points on D, and had we been in the game we woulda given up more.

 

[GREENJERSEYS'07]

I'd venture a guess to say that 60% of USC and OSU's players are kids who couldn't get into Notre Dame.

oh shit,here we go again.where have i heard that one before.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

big deal.

USC 44 ND 24

we gave up 37 points on D, and had we been in the game we woulda given up more.

Had our offense stayed on the field, we would have kept the score down.

It takes time to rebuild a defense from scratch. At least CW had the talent on offense to win.

 

[Freeman Ara]

I don't know what DC in the country you could convince to put Tommy at LB. He's only 6'0", and that's generous. I've hung out with the kid, I'm 5'7" and he's only a couple of inches taller than I am. I'd say he's more like 5'10" and 200lbs.

Height doesn't matter so much at LB (see Zach Thomas, Mike Singletary) and he easily could have put on weight if he would have been switched early in his career. And your saying we can switch Travis Thomas to LB put its impossible to do with Zibby, makes total sense.

 

[Overdose]

I am a die hard ND fan but how can anyone call Alabama a second rate team? Sure they suck this year but they have always had top defences. And last time I checked they have won almost as many NC as we have. More by some accounts. To say they are 2nd tier is just plain stupid, sorry..... I must go now I think I just threw up in my mouth for defending the Tide.

 

[GREENJERSEYS'07]

I am a die hard ND fan but how can anyone call Alabama a second rate team? Sure they suck this year but they have always had top defences. And last time I checked they have won almost as many NC as we have. More by some accounts. To say they are 2nd tier is just plain stupid, sorry..... I must go now I think I just threw up in my mouth for defending the Tide.

last i heard nobody is even sure if shula still has a job.That's not saying too much for 'bama's anything these days.

 

[Overdose]

True but before Weis how many years did we suck?

 

[ColinKSU]

oh shit,here we go again.where have i heard that one before.

Because it's the truth?

We can't get all the kids they can get. We can't. Sorry. We can't. I don't know any other way to say that.

What we DO have is a bunch of very talented kids, though. I wouldn't trade Tommy Z or Duke or Victor or Landri for ANYONE. Kids that could be coached to be very solid players, if they were taught to play with any damn emotion. The team constantly looks dead tired out there and it's mind-boggling.

But back to point, look at that USC defense sometime. Look at their grades, test scores, criminal records...A lot of them wouldn't get in here. That Maualuga kid that flies all over the field like a lawn dart?

He owns the LA Police and he also wouldn't have gotten in to Notre Dame.

And something you said about Alabama bothered me. Their defense isn't the problem. They had one of the best in the country last year and they do again this season.

It's their offense that sucks. Mitchell Thomas wasn't recruited to play on the offensive side of the ball for 'Bama. He was recruited to play D for one of the best Ds in the country in the best conference in the country for defense.

Schools like OSU and USC can get by with "eh" coaching because they have A+, Top 5 talent at every position. We don't. We NEED a great coach to get great results.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I am a die hard ND fan but how can anyone call Alabama a second rate team? Sure they suck this year but they have always had top defences. And last time I checked they have won almost as many NC as we have. More by some accounts. To say they are 2nd tier is just plain stupid, sorry..... I must go now I think I just threw up in my mouth for defending the Tide.

Yes, 2nd tier as defined by wins/losses.

http://www.michigan-football.com/ncaa/f/alabama.htm

2006 - 6-6
2005 - 10-2
2004 - 6-6
2003 - 4-9
2002 - 10-3
2001 - 7-5
2000 - 3-8
1999 - 10-3
1998 - 7-5
1997 - 4-7

67-54 in 10 years (.554). And they are clearly NOT headed upwards.

ND just went through 8 horrible years and did not do that badly. (75-46 - .620)

BC's record during that time? (75-45 - .620)

Bama has tremendous history, but they have become a second tier team.

 

[ColinKSU]

Another thing I want an answer for is this:

Why would a top recruit come to ND to play defense?

Seriously. Why? What do you offer them? Playing time? What does that matter when they will be playing for a D-Coordinator who has no idea how to use them right?

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Seriously. Why? What do you offer them? Playing time? What does that matter when they will be playing for a D-Coordinator who has no idea how to use them right?

Minter has a track record of success...as does Lewis. That's why.

Just because they have inferior talent now, does not mean it will continue. In fact, recruiting in that area has already improved.

Play time, success, and proven coaching.

 

[Overdose]

Glad you know how to copy and paste but the fact remains Notre Dame has not been that good in years past so one might look at us that way too. Sure we did well the last two years but what is the outlook next year? Same as Bama.. They are rebuilding too, but their D would kick our D's ass everyday. I wish we did have the D they have. We would be playing Ohio for the NC this year and we would have won the NC last year.

And thanks I just threw up in my mouth again...

 

[Freeman Ara]

Another thing I want an answer for is this:

Why would a top recruit come to ND to play defense?

Seriously. Why? What do you offer them? Playing time? What does that matter when they will be playing for a D-Coordinator who has no idea how to use them right?

Lets see a great education, a great head coach that has the ability to put you in the NFL, national TV exposure every saturday, one of the greatest college environments in the country. I would say playing time probably isn't even top 5 on the list really.

 

[goldenechoes]

Minter has a track record of success...as does Lewis. That's why.

Just because they have inferior talent now, does not mean it will continue. In fact, recruiting in that area has already improved.

Play time, success, and proven coaching.

As much as I love ND, if I was a top flight defensive recruit, I wouldnt play for Minters defense.