Post Game Observations....

[Te'o4Heisman]

LOL, you don't get to remove the games that disagree with you opinion. That would be like me exempting the USC and Pitt game because Tommy didn't play well. I will respond to the numbers here in a second.

My point wasnt to pick and choose what games I want to count stats for. My point was that Tommy beat up on 2 horrible defenses, but against everybody else he has been horrible himself and we have won in spite of him, not because of him against the better teams we have played.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

That's the problem...........and it's a *you* problem. Not a Brian Kelly problem, not a Tommy Rees problem, and certainly not MY problem. If winning championships is what it is all about, for you, then you will never be satisfied. Notre Dame has been playing College Football for approximately 125 seasons, and has 12 Championships. That's less than one every ten years. I would venture to say that if it is about Championships for you, then you're probably missing the point.

Kelly has said numerous times that ND's goal is to be in the national championship discussion every year.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

That's the problem...........and it's a *you* problem. Not a Brian Kelly problem, not a Tommy Rees problem, and certainly not MY problem. If winning championships is what it is all about, for you, then you will never be satisfied. Notre Dame has been playing College Football for approximately 125 seasons, and has 12 Championships. That's less than one every ten years. I would venture to say that if it is about Championships for you, then you're probably missing the point.

Notre Dame football always has, and always will be about championships, otherwise Charlie Weis would still be our coach. He graduated players, and kept them out of trouble, what he didnt do is show he had an potential to bring home a championship.

 

[bert2834]

Did anyone else noticed that Dayne was wearing a headset during most of the game?

I haven't noticed this before.

Also, watch Dayne closely, he always has the "deer in the headlights" look. No matter what is going on. Watch the USC pep rally, he is in the background with that same look.

PS Can we go one week without hashing up this same exact discussion with the same exact points brought up?

Or put them all in the same thread at least. I read through this whole dang thread and didn't see 1 new point brought up in this discussion.

Go IRISH!!! Go Tommy!!!(or whoever our QB is)

 

[pkt77242]

My point wasnt to pick and choose what games I want to count stats for. My point was that Tommy beat up on 2 horrible defenses, but against everybody else he has been horrible himself and we have won in spite of him, not because of him against the better teams we have played.

Um, don't look but Michigan St is number 2 in total defense and Tommy played rather well. Also USF is 34th and Rees played pretty well.

2011-12 NCAA FBS Team Total Defense - USATODAY.com

 

[bert2834]

My point wasnt to pick and choose what games I want to count stats for. My point was that Tommy beat up on 2 horrible defenses, but against everybody else he has been horrible himself and we have won in spite of him, not because of him against the better teams we have played.

Tommy also played terrible for all but 1 drive to a team that was 119th in the country in pass defense.

 

[t3hjc]

Yeah, we also have the best offensive line and running game in probably a decade, not to mention the best WR in ND football history, and an all-American candidate TE. In this offense, which is supposed to be wide open, you can't compare numbers to previous years.

We used to complain that we didn't stop teams enough from scoring to win. Now we average more points than we basically ever used to and we need to go in a completely different direction on offense. We're 8-1 right now if Rees starts the South Florida game and the defense doesn't crap away a three possession 4th quarter lead against Michigan. I bring that up because I'm sure if even that were the case right now, you'd all still be complaining.

Do you think we'd average 32 points a game under Hendrix?

You honestly thought we could go 4-0 with a true freshman at QB last year? Trust me, we could have done it again this year; we wouldn't be 3-6 if we had a QB who just limited his mistakes.

Were you calling for Rees last year as we were 4-4 and coming off an ***-kicking by Navy?

Army and Utah are probably as bad offensively as anyone we would have played this year. USC beats us soundly if Barkley plays. We got good quarterback play against Miami and that game could've been ugly and low-scoring if we hadn't.

You can't expect we would've beaten USF with Hendrix when we couldn't without him. We likely wouldn't have won at Michigan. Hendrix going up against Michigan State's defense wouldn't have been a good proposition. More than possible we wouldn't have won at Pitt or Wake. We didn't greet Air Force with much resistance, we just outscored them so much early that it took them out of what they wanted to do. USC had their way with us on both sides of the ball.

Navy and Purdue are the only two teams that probably compare to the stretch we faced at the end of last season.

It's more than possible we could be a 3 win team right now with Hendrix.

And I don't care that he's not putting up the 'numbers' that Clausen and Quinn did. There's a little something called God-given talent, and Rees obviously doesn't have enough of it.

Crist has more natural ability than Rees. So why does the team average more than a touchdown less per game under him? Could it possibly be because he's woefully indecisive and inaccurate?

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

I have a question for you. Why do you completely ignore Dayne's faults? You act like the SF game was his only bad moment. Yet you always bag on Rees' bad moments. How could you forget the Navy game??? How could you forget our 6'4" center not being able to get 4 inches against Navy's defense? How could you forget how awful he was that game...those 2 picks with only 178 yds passing against a POS defense? (at least Rees dominates POS defenses.) How could forget the crippling fumble against MSU, another example of him folding under pressure? How could you forget him throwing the ball straight out of the endzone with a chance to win on the last play vs. Michigan? How can you forget those last 3 quarters vs. Boston College in which he was absolutely putrid (under 50%)? How can you forget his awful Stanford game (you know, the team you say we NEED a QB like Crist to defeat)? Do you have an explanation for why he sat the first half vs Michigan last year? I don't. TR has fought through every injury. And how can you forget, with the season on the line, and the chance for him to be a hero in everyone's eyes, his fumble vs. USC???

You do realize, don't you, that Crist has thrown a pick in his 7 out of his last 8 starts (that's not including his 0-2 vs. Tulsa, in which he was hurt yet again). But you call Tommy out for his turnovers??? What's the difference? The only difference is that when the going gets tough, Crist folds. Tommy doesn't. Thus the 'gamer' title that Crist doesn't hold.



Nope, not at all. In fact, I love Crist, and I find myself pining for him as well at times when watching Tommy. And then I remember how God-awful he was vs. SF (while Rees came in and immediately brought life to the team and took them down the field repeatedly), and I remember him vs USC, and I realize that BK made the right decision.

No one here is saying that Rees is the answer long-term. But he's the best we have RIGHT NOW.

Despite the fact that this isn't last year, when our two starting DEs from last game werent even on the roster and Jonas Gray wasn't even close to sniffing PT, I will respond to your post. I have mentioned Dayne twice, but let me make clear I am not a "Dayne guy" in the Rees vs Crist debate. I do not care who our QB is, whether that be Rees, Christ, Hendrix or freakin Matt Mulvey. My issue is the QB play has been subpar, and Rees is not getting it done.

I do find it funny though that you bring up Dayne's fumble against MSU considering we wouldn't even have been in the game at that point if not for Dayne who threw for 369 yds and 4 TDs vs 1 INT against a quality defense. That was on the heals of 277 yds and 2 TDS in a half of football against Michigan. And as bad as he was against BC for 3 quarters, his final #s still ended up being par for the course for a Rees game this year, but Rees is the chosen one. Back to my point though, if Dayne isn't the guy I'm OK with that. The problem is Tommy isn't the guy either, and for some reason Coach Kelly is sticking with him at all costs to avoid a QB controversy any further turmoil in the locker room.

Rees has been our QB for 8 1/2 games this year. He has had exactly TWO good games, back to back against Purdue and Air Force..two defensive juggernauts. Explain to me why 2 quality games out of 8 1/2 does not warrant somebody else getting a chance? Saban would have sat his *** down weeks ago. AJ McCarron has 4 INTs all year, and Saban is all over him. Brian Kelly has a soft spot for Tommy Rees and anybody who can't see that is kidding themselves. I'd personally like to see Hendrix get a shot. For whatever limitations he has in understanding the passing game in this offense, he makes up for it with his threat to keep it on the read option or tuck it and run if the coverage is on point.

 

[bert2834]

And for those saying they don't know why Dayne sat during the Michigan game last year, he finished the drive he was on and said that he couldn't see out of his left eye during it and didn't remember 4 out of the 5 plays.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Um, don't look but Michigan St is number 2 in total defense and Tommy played rather well. Also USF is 34th and Rees played pretty well.

2011-12 NCAA FBS Team Total Defense - USATODAY.com

161 yds with 1 TD and 1 INT can hardly be called playing "rather well". He played well against South Florida, but again 2 INTs in one half. I'll give him half a mulligan in that one since he was pretty much forced to throw every down, but still 2 INTs.

How about the poor performance against Michigan (3 or 4 TOs)? The poor performance against Pitt. The poor performance against USC. The poor performance against Wake Forest.

 

[t3hjc]

My point wasnt to pick and choose what games I want to count stats for. My point was that Tommy beat up on 2 horrible defenses, but against everybody else he has been horrible himself and we have won in spite of him, not because of him against the better teams we have played.

32 points per game.

We put up 24 under Crist.

 

[DillonHall]

32 points per game.

We put up 24 under Crist.

And QB is the only thing that's different this year?

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Did anyone else noticed that Dayne was wearing a headset during most of the game?

I haven't noticed this before.

Also, watch Dayne closely, he always has the "deer in the headlights" look. No matter what is going on. Watch the USC pep rally, he is in the background with that same look.

PS Can we go one week without hashing up this same exact discussion with the same exact points brought up?

Or put them all in the same thread at least. I read through this whole dang thread and didn't see 1 new point brought up in this discussion.

Go IRISH!!! Go Tommy!!!(or whoever our QB is)

Tommy also played terrible for all but 1 drive to a team that was 119th in the country in pass defense.

Seriously??? Can we? I thought you were above all of this nonsense?

Looks like you've shown your stripes, Bert. lol

Go Tommy!!! 10-2 as a starter. Woo Hoo!!!

 

[DillonHall]

That's the problem...........and it's a *you* problem. Not a Brian Kelly problem, not a Tommy Rees problem, and certainly not MY problem. If winning championships is what it is all about, for you, then you will never be satisfied. Notre Dame has been playing College Football for approximately 125 seasons, and has 12 Championships. That's less than one every ten years. I would venture to say that if it is about Championships for you, then you're probably missing the point.

What the hell does ND football mean to you then? Our tradition is built on winning, period.

 

[bert2834]

The win-loss column for a QB is just a meaningless as the win-loss column for a pitcher. They have very little to do with how well the QB plays.

A QB can go 30-30 with 400 yards and 5 TDs but get beat 42-35 if his defense is terrible but he would be 0-1 so that means he's not good(to some people).

 

[t3hjc]

Despite the fact that this isn't last year, when our two starting DEs from last game werent even on the roster and Jonas Gray wasn't even close to sniffing PT, I will respond to your post. I have mentioned Dayne twice, but let me make clear I am not a "Dayne guy" in the Rees vs Crist debate. I do not care who our QB is, whether that be Rees, Christ, Hendrix or freakin Matt Mulvey. My issue is the QB play has been subpar, and Rees is not getting it done.

No, the issue is that you got spoiled watching guys like Quinn and Clausen and it's created a disconnect with expectations. The fact you think the production we're getting from the position is "subpar" relative to what most teams get out of their quarterbacks is evidence of that. You're not always going to have a 1st or 2nd round draft pick under center for you.

It's one thing to suggest Rees isn't a long term answer. You're not going to get much dispute there. Rees is limited physically relative to what potential there might be in the offense, but that's not the overarching concern many of us have. Most of us are primarily concerned with trying to win each game each week. If that's not your concern, that's fine. But don't argue that a team which has won 6 of their last 7 and averages 32 points per game needs to switch to an inexperienced quarterback who hasn't shown anything as a passer because you believe it gives them the best chance to win every week.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

32 points per game.

We put up 24 under Crist.

Do you know we only had seven rushing TDs last year with Crist? Do you know who scored the most rushing TDs? Crist. 4 rushing TDs...more than half of the team's total. It is incredible how people forget how much was put on Crist's plate last year. Crist was beginning his collegiate career last year with a new coach, a new offense, and no rush game to speak of. Considering that, he performed better than most people think.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

The win-loss column for a QB is just a meaningless as the win-loss column for a pitcher. They have very little to do with how well the QB plays.

A QB can go 30-30 with 400 yards and 5 TDs but get beat 42-35 if his defense is terrible but he would be 0-1 so that means he's not good(to some people).

2 words...

You're full of it.

You're right...We don't want a winning quarterback at the helm. I know I don't a kid with a .833 winning percentage quarterbacking this team. You've got it all figured out.

LMAO

 

[bert2834]

I am just stating facts man.

A win-loss record does not determine how good a QB is.

I suppose Dan Marino was no good in your book.

 

[bert2834]

Anywho....does anyone know why Dayne was wearing the headset the whole game?

Just wondering cause this is the 1st game he has done so(that I have noticed).

 

[DomeX2 eNVy]

I don't mean to hijack this "Rees v Crist IV", but I don't know where else to make this comment . . .

I think the defense was awesome as a whole in the circumstance. There was a lot of criticism of Diaco and the D in general, and I understand it - but look at the whole body of work from Saturday.

The first drive was painful to watch and had me scared, but after that I think it is hard to be negative. Standouts included Smith, Nix, Flemming, Tuitt, Lynch, and Blanton. So many times this year I've been shocked by Smith's speed in closing vertically and his sure tackling - he will be missed. And is there any corner better at getting off blocks than Blanton?

Lynch, Tuitt, and Nix are all in their first season - yes they all made mistakes but against a fairly diverse and sophisticated offense. But they had more positive plays than negative, especially with Lynch at less than 100% much of the game. Tuitt has improved so much this year which I will credit his work ethic, attitude, and coaching. Nix takes up multiple blockers most plays.

Who was this Flemming guy? He looks better as a DE than OLB. Even the ever missing Steve Filer played well - he didn't star, but he played his position and I didn't see any gaffs from him.

Who else was in there? Kona, Collinsworth, Niklas, Shembo. Wow, there's a lot of experience. They all made small mistakes, but what can you expect at this point in time? Yet, imho, they all contributed to the positive.

Gary Gray was just fine, and had a big fumble recovery - which was a great point for the Defense to make a big play and secure the outcome.

Teo wasn't himself, but once he started to figure out the WF gameplan, he interrupted quite a few plays.

The weakness were in Carlo, Fox, and Motta. But overall this is a team game, and I think this Defensive Team deserves a lot of praise for this effort, especially with the offense having 3 turn overs.

 

[t3hjc]

And QB is the only thing that's different this year?

Was Crist playing with the same guys when we got blanked in that first half against USF where he accounted for 95 yards passing and a pick? Did Rees come in and throw for 300 yards in the second half against that same team with our same players? Did Crist **** the bit and fumble away a chance to tie the USC game in his brief appearance, the kind of thing you'd never let Tommy live down? Did Crist look lost against a Navy team with basically the same defense that Rees picked apart this year?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

What are the odds that the Crist-Rees debate is still going on a year from now even after Crist has graduated? I'm going to say 3:1.

 

[kmoose]

161 yds with 1 TD and 1 INT can hardly be called playing "rather well". He played well against South Florida, but again 2 INTs in one half. I'll give him half a mulligan in that one since he was pretty much forced to throw every down, but still 2 INTs.

How about the poor performance against Michigan (3 or 4 TOs)? The poor performance against Pitt. The poor performance against USC. The poor performance against Wake Forest.

That's true............. but it sure as hell isn't "horrible"(your word) either. I think that was the point that was being made.

 

[pkt77242]

161 yds with 1 TD and 1 INT can hardly be called playing "rather well". He played well against South Florida, but again 2 INTs in one half. I'll give him half a mulligan in that one since he was pretty much forced to throw every down, but still 2 INTs.

How about the poor performance against Michigan (3 or 4 TOs)? The poor performance against Pitt. The poor performance against USC. The poor performance against Wake Forest.

I disagree he was 18/26 69.2% of his throws. He executed the game plan very well and that is what counts. He doesn't need to throw for 300 yards to play well.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

He can survive as a game managers, but game managers don't have multiple picks.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

What are the odds that the Crist-Rees debate is still going on a year from now even after Crist has graduated? I'm going to say 3:1.

What are the odds that Crist fumbles his degree on Graduation day straight across the stage into the waiting hands of Commencement Speaker, Newt Gingrich who returns it all the way to the second row of the Purcell Pavilion stands before being told to sit down and slugged over the head by an usher who held him down until security could take him into custody. I'm going to say 1:1. It could happen.

 

[Patulski]

Yeah, we also have the best offensive line and running game in probably a decade, not to mention the best WR in ND football history, and an all-American candidate TE. In this offense, which is supposed to be wide open, you can't compare numbers to previous years.

You honestly thought we could go 4-0 with a true freshman at QB last year? Trust me, we could have done it again this year; we wouldn't be 3-6 if we had a QB who just limited his mistakes.

And I don't care that he's not putting up the 'numbers' that Clausen and Quinn did. There's a little something called God-given talent, and Rees obviously doesn't have enough of it.

If ND had a better QB, he'd be playing. So, what's the point of knocking Rees, when he's the best we have at this point in time?

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

What are the odds that the Crist-Rees debate is still going on a year from now even after Crist has graduated? I'm going to say 3:1.

zero. Hendrix will be firmly entrenched as the starter a year from now. The big bitch-threads will be about Diacos job security.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

No, the issue is that you got spoiled watching guys like Quinn and Clausen and it's created a disconnect with expectations. The fact you think the production we're getting from the position is "subpar" relative to what most teams get out of their quarterbacks is evidence of that. You're not always going to have a 1st or 2nd round draft pick under center for you.

It's one thing to suggest Rees isn't a long term answer. You're not going to get much dispute there. Rees is limited physically relative to what potential there might be in the offense, but that's not the overarching concern many of us have. Most of us are primarily concerned with trying to win each game each week. If that's not your concern, that's fine. But don't argue that a team which has won 6 of their last 7 and averages 32 points per game needs to switch to an inexperienced quarterback who hasn't shown anything as a passer because you believe it gives them the best chance to win every week.

Notre Dame should not strive to be anything relative to what most teams are. The goal is a national championship every year, always has been. I am not spoiled, I just never accepted mediocrity. Rees is mediocre with very limited physical potential to become any more than he already is, which is a QB that can't get the ball further than 10 yards downfield with any sort of accuracy, and who misses reads a LOT. Have you answered my question about how many times you have seen Tommy play live in person yet?