Post Game Observations....

[Te'o4Heisman]

Uh, no.

Rees, not Kelly, is dictating tempo of offense - Inside Notre Dame sports

Be careful about providing opinions and/or evidence that do not jive with the agenda and status quo of some...it makes you a lesser person.

 

[t3hjc]

Be careful about providing opinions and/or evidence that do not jive with the agenda and status quo of some...it makes you a lesser person.

The article didn't dispute anything anyone is claiming. You're the one with an agenda. You didn't have a problem trusting Kelly's judgment when he went with Crist initially, but the fact he hasn't wavered on Rees since just makes your blood boil.

 

[pkt77242]

In previous posts, I have presented plenty of "facts" to support my view on Tommy. To which the rebuttal is "he's a gamer"...because somehow THAT's a fact. Or it's a FACT that he is our best chance to win? It can not be a FACT he is our best chance to win when others haven't gotten the same opportunities. It IS however a FACT, that if you take out games against the two worst defenses we have played all season, Tommy Rees has thrown 10 INTs to 10 TDs and lost a few fumbles.

LOL, you don't get to remove the games that disagree with you opinion. That would be like me exempting the USC and Pitt game because Tommy didn't play well. I will respond to the numbers here in a second.

 

[DillonHall]

I don't see how your initial post contradicts what pkt said. He praised Rees for his ability to get into the right call. Your article says that we don't go up-tempo because we don't have a running quarterback capable of wrecking havoc with his speed. Because of that, we have to run a slower offense that puts more of an emphasis on slowing tempo and getting into the right call.

Kelly wants to do one thing (call a play and have his QB run the play no matter how the defense is set up), but he can't because Tommy doesn't have the ability. THIS is why he has to make calls at the line of scrimmage. pkt says that this is a large positive about Tommy; however, Kelly doesn't want him doing this in the first place. It's nice that he usually does it correctly, but it takes too much time and it ultimately PREVENTS Kelly from running the offense that he wants to. The coach's quotes spell it out pretty clearly but let me paraphrase for you: Tommy's inability to run limits the Brian Kelly offense and his philosphy.

 

[pkt77242]

Kelly wants to do one thing (call a play and have his QB run the play no matter how the defense is set up), but he can't because Tommy doesn't have the ability. THIS is why he has to make calls at the line of scrimmage. pkt says that this is a large positive about Tommy; however, Kelly doesn't want him doing this in the first place. It's nice that he usually does it correctly, but it takes too much time and it ultimately PREVENTS Kelly from running the offense that he wants to. The coach's quotes spell it out pretty clearly but let me paraphrase for you: Tommy's inability to run limits the Brian Kelly offense and his philosphy.

I agree that Tommy's inability to run limits the play calls and that is why Kelly wants him changing the play call at the line. To get into a play that will work for him. If he was a running call he would just be able to tuck it and run if the play wasn't the correct call against how the defense was aligned. So it is Tommy's running that hampers the offense but Kelly wants him changing the call at the line.

Bolded part. Kelly does want him doing it since he can't run.

 

[DillonHall]

I agree that Tommy's inability to run limits the play calls and that is why Kelly wants him changing the play call at the line. To get into a play that will work for him. If he was a running call he would just be able to tuck it and run if the play wasn't the correct call against how the defense was aligned. So it is Tommy's running that hampers the offense but Kelly wants him changing the call at the line.

Bolded part. Kelly does want him doing it since he can't run.

He wants him to do it because he HAS to do it. Did you read his quotes from the article I linked? Straight from the coach's mouth; Kelly prefers a QB that can just run the play that he calls. Therefore, you reach the conclusion that, as long as Rees is the QB, we will never run the offense that Kelly wants to.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Here's my beef. Dayne was our best option at the beginning of the year, which is why he started against South Florida. How did Tommy suddenly become the unchallenged best chance to win now just because Dayne put up one first half of football that was similar to about 4 or 4 first halves of football that Tommy Rees has put up so far yet he seems to have a never ending leash. The kid does VERY LITTLE to help this team win. He turns the ball over to much, misses open receivers constantly, and is pretty much riding the coattails of a solid running game and a solid defense and getting credit for being a "gamer". Why is he a gamer? Because he looks confident as he throws his 2nd INT of the game, or loses another fumble? Because he has 5 bad drives, but then is able to finally put together oen good drive all damn game against Pitt? That makes him a gamer? GFTO.

Whoever the poster was who saidthat he is an anchor slowing down the ship, perfectly stated. I haven't said a bad word about Tommy all year up until the last week and a half, but enough is enough with his tired act. And did TJ Jones sleep with Tommy's girlfriend or something? he hangs him out to dry on a high throw, Jones leaves the game, comes back in and the first thing Tommy does is throw him into a big hit.
LIABILITY.

I have a question for you. Why do you completely ignore Dayne's faults? You act like the SF game was his only bad moment. Yet you always bag on Rees' bad moments. How could you forget the Navy game??? How could you forget our 6'4" center not being able to get 4 inches against Navy's defense? How could you forget how awful he was that game...those 2 picks with only 178 yds passing against a POS defense? (at least Rees dominates POS defenses.) How could forget the crippling fumble against MSU, another example of him folding under pressure? How could you forget him throwing the ball straight out of the endzone with a chance to win on the last play vs. Michigan? How can you forget those last 3 quarters vs. Boston College in which he was absolutely putrid (under 50%)? How can you forget his awful Stanford game (you know, the team you say we NEED a QB like Crist to defeat)? Do you have an explanation for why he sat the first half vs Michigan last year? I don't. TR has fought through every injury. And how can you forget, with the season on the line, and the chance for him to be a hero in everyone's eyes, his fumble vs. USC???

You do realize, don't you, that Crist has thrown a pick in his 7 out of his last 8 starts (that's not including his 0-2 vs. Tulsa, in which he was hurt yet again). But you call Tommy out for his turnovers??? What's the difference? The only difference is that when the going gets tough, Crist folds. Tommy doesn't. Thus the 'gamer' title that Crist doesn't hold.

Be careful about providing opinions and/or evidence that do not jive with the agenda and status quo of some...it makes you a lesser person.

Nope, not at all. In fact, I love Crist, and I find myself pining for him as well at times when watching Tommy. And then I remember how God-awful he was vs. SF (while Rees came in and immediately brought life to the team and took them down the field repeatedly), and I remember him vs USC, and I realize that BK made the right decision.

No one here is saying that Rees is the answer long-term. But he's the best we have RIGHT NOW.

 

[pkt77242]

Tommy Rees stats for the year

193/293 65.9% 2096 yards 17 tds and 10 int QB rating 138.3

The stats are solid, but I would say that Rees probably hasn't played up to what his stats show, but then again, he hasn't played as bad as people on here make him out to have played. You would think it was the second coming of Kevin Craft (2008 UCLA).

 

[pkt77242]

He wants him to do it because he HAS to do it. Did you read his quotes from the article I linked? Straight from the coach's mouth; Kelly prefers a QB that can just run the play that he calls. Therefore, you reach the conclusion that, as long as Rees is the QB, we will never run the offense that Kelly wants to.

Again you just made my point. Kelly wants Tommy to call the audibles because he can't run. So he is doing what Kelly is asking of him, not what Kelly would ask of his ideal QB. (and lets be honest, Dayne is obviously not Kelly's ideal QB either).

 

[t3hjc]

Kelly wants to do one thing (call a play and have his QB run the play no matter how the defense is set up), but he can't because Tommy doesn't have the ability. THIS is why he has to make calls at the line of scrimmage. pkt says that this is a large positive about Tommy; however, Kelly doesn't want him doing this in the first place. It's nice that he usually does it correctly, but it takes too much time and it ultimately PREVENTS Kelly from running the offense that he wants to. The coach's quotes spell it out pretty clearly but let me paraphrase for you: Tommy's inability to run limits the Brian Kelly offense and his philosphy.

Neither Rees nor Crist are well-suited to run up-tempo and neither are remotely close to Kelly's ideal quarterback. If the argument is that the quarterback position needs improvement, nobody's going to dispute that. It's in our interest to make do with the most efficient offense we can though.

In essentially 8.5 games, the team averaged 24.3 points per game under Crist.

In essentially 13.5 games, the team averages 31.5 points per game under Rees.

 

[irishff1014]

Tommy Rees stats for the year

193/293 65.9% 2096 yards 17 tds and 10 int QB rating 138.3

The stats are solid, but I would say that Rees probably hasn't played up to what his stats show, but then again, he hasn't played as bad as people on here make him out to have played. You would think it was the second coming of Kevin Craft (2008 UCLA).

You forgot the 4 fumbles.

 

[DillonHall]

Again you just made my point. Kelly wants Tommy to call the audibles because he can't run. So he is doing what Kelly is asking of him, not what Kelly would ask of his ideal QB. (and lets be honest, Dayne is obviously not Kelly's ideal QB either).

Don't understand how I made your point, but go ahead and think that.

 

[BobD]

Below is a list of IE members who, after debating back and forth, have changed their mind about who should play QB at ND.





























































































































.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Stop replying to Teo4Heisman, guy's not worth it.

Why? Just because you can't think of a response doesn't mean somebody else shouldn't respond to his comments. Pretty weak.

 

[DillonHall]

Neither Rees nor Crist are well-suited to run up-tempo and neither are remotely close to Kelly's ideal quarterback. If the argument is that the quarterback position needs improvement, nobody's going to dispute that. It's in our interest to make do with the most efficient offense we can though.

In essentially 8.5 games, the team averaged 24.3 points per game under Crist.

In essentially 13.5 games, the team averages 31.5 points per game under Rees.

Why not Hendrix? I'd hope he's more prepared than Tommy was when he first took over as a freshman last year. I'd love to beat Stanford and win the bowl game, but I can't help but feel that it's another lost season. To me, Notre Dame football is about winning championships. Nobody remembers even who won the Fiesta Bowl three years ago; only champions are remembered. We're not going to win one this year and we're not going to win one as long as Rees is the QB. So why not look at other options?

 

[pkt77242]

You forgot the 4 fumbles.

Actually he has only been credited with 3. The lateral to Wood was ruled a fumble for Wood not Rees. So we have Michigan St, Michigan and then the lateral to Theo (which really is a 50/50 play for fault) unless I am missing one. And Crist has one in less than one game, what's your point?

 

[pkt77242]

Why not Hendrix? I'd hope he's more prepared than Tommy was when he first took over as a freshman last year. I'd love to beat Stanford and win the bowl game, but I can't help but feel that it's another lost season. To me, Notre Dame football is about winning championships. Nobody remembers even who won the Fiesta Bowl three years ago; only champions are remembered. We're not going to win one this year and we're not going to win one as long as Rees is the QB. So why not look at other options?

It is about building a team to win championships and if you think the rest of our team could beat LSU or Alabama this year, then you need to go rewatch their game last night. We are not a championship team this year, and not next year either. What we need to do is build our team and that means good recruiting classes and you don't get them without winning some games. That means playing the QB that can help you win today.

 

[irishff1014]

Actually he has only been credited with 3. The lateral to Wood was ruled a fumble for Wood not Rees. So we have Michigan St, Michigan and then the lateral to Theo (which really is a 50/50 play for fault) unless I am missing one. And Crist has one in less than one game, what's your point?

YOu put all the other stats up there shoulda added this one too.

 

[pkt77242]

YOu put all the other stats up there shoulda added this one too.

If it makes you feel better, but I was focusing on the throwing aspect. I could also put the 18 carries for 0 yards or HCTI favorite stat which is the fact that he is 10-2 as our starting QB because that is a stat of his as well.

 

[DillonHall]

It is about building a team to win championships and if you think the rest of our team could beat LSU or Alabama this year, then you need to go rewatch their game last night. We are not a championship team this year, and not next year either. What we need to do is build our team and that means good recruiting classes and you don't get them without winning some games. That means playing the QB that can help you win today.

And we're back to the point that's caused this debate to go on all season long: How do we know that Rees is the best option? Am I supposed to completely believe everything that Kelly tells the media?

 

[irishff1014]

And we're back to the point that's caused this debate to go on all season long: How do we know that Rees is the best option? Am I supposed to completely believe everything that Kelly tells the media?

Kelly made a switch to him Now kelly is going to stick to that. No matter what any ones says

 

[DillonHall]

Kelly made a switch to him Now kelly is going to stick to that. No matter what any ones says

Agree 100%

 

[t3hjc]

Why not Hendrix? I'd hope he's more prepared than Tommy was when he first took over as a freshman last year. I'd love to beat Stanford and win the bowl game, but I can't help but feel that it's another lost season. To me, Notre Dame football is about winning championships. Nobody remembers even who won the Fiesta Bowl three years ago; only champions are remembered. We're not going to win one this year and we're not going to win one as long as Rees is the QB. So why not look at other options?

This is what I mean. The team averages more points this year than it did in all but one season under Weis and you want to hand the keys to a quarterback who's shown little if anything as a passer all because you can't stand that Rees isn't putting up Clausen/Quinn numbers in his sophomore year. What do you really think our record would be if Hendrix had started for us this year? Because 2-7 or 3-6 is more than feasible.

 

[philipm31]

Tommy just needs reps. He is a true sophmore and will get better over time. He will learn to read the defense better.

We rushed the ball 38 times and held Wake to 3.0 yards a carry.

Defense played great after a shaky start but also created a turnover when it needed to.

This is a process. A win is a win.

We played down to the level of competition in the beginning but the atmosphere, at Wake with the quiet crowd, and being overshadowed with the LSU-Bama game, just made for a get in, win, and get out type situation.

6-3 with a terrible Maryland team up next.

By the way, we did put up 59 and 56 points against the academies. We did beat MSU 31-13. We beat Purdue 38-10 and scored 24 on the road tonight. Struggled but won at Pitt. Stumbled a bit in the beginning but won at Wake.

Still don't see where the doom and gloom attitude is coming from with some people.

For me, the doom and gloom comes from the fact that ND cannot beat an overrated MICH team, got mauled by a mediocre USC team and wil likely get drilled by STAN. The fact is that ND has not made much progress this year, even if they win 9 games this year. They are stuck in neutral. My biggest issue is that USC game. That was just awful from start to finish. The most uninspired ND has looked in a long time, and they had TWO WEEKS to prepare. That is the reason for the gloomy outlook, in my opinion.

 

[anarin]

Actually he has only been credited with 3. The lateral to Wood was ruled a fumble for Wood not Rees. So we have Michigan St, Michigan and then the lateral to Theo (which really is a 50/50 play for fault) unless I am missing one. And Crist has one in less than one game, what's your point?

I'm 99% certain that play was credited to tommy. Anytime its a botched lateral it normally is credited to the QB. Kinda like handoff miscues are against the QB.

I could be wrong, but only 1%

 

[DillonHall]

This is what I mean. The team averages more points this year than it did in all but one season under Weis and you want to hand the keys to a quarterback who's shown little if anything as a passer all because you can't stand that Rees isn't putting up Clausen/Quinn numbers in his sophomore year. What do you really think our record would be if Hendrix had started for us this year? Because 2-7 or 3-6 is more than feasible.

Yeah, we also have the best offensive line and running game in probably a decade, not to mention the best WR in ND football history, and an all-American candidate TE. In this offense, which is supposed to be wide open, you can't compare numbers to previous years.

You honestly thought we could go 4-0 with a true freshman at QB last year? Trust me, we could have done it again this year; we wouldn't be 3-6 if we had a QB who just limited his mistakes.

And I don't care that he's not putting up the 'numbers' that Clausen and Quinn did. There's a little something called God-given talent, and Rees obviously doesn't have enough of it.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

I have a question for you. Why do you completely ignore Dayne's faults? You act like the SF game was his only bad moment. Yet you always bag on Rees' bad moments. How could you forget the Navy game??? How could you forget our 6'4" center not being able to get 4 inches against Navy's defense? How could you forget how awful he was that game...those 2 picks with only 178 yds passing against a POS defense? (at least Rees dominates POS defenses.) How could forget the crippling fumble against MSU, another example of him folding under pressure? How could you forget him throwing the ball straight out of the endzone with a chance to win on the last play vs. Michigan? How can you forget those last 3 quarters vs. Boston College in which he was absolutely putrid (under 50%)? How can you forget his awful Stanford game (you know, the team you say we NEED a QB like Crist to defeat)? Do you have an explanation for why he sat the first half vs Michigan last year? I don't. TR has fought through every injury. And how can you forget, with the season on the line, and the chance for him to be a hero in everyone's eyes, his fumble vs. USC???

You do realize, don't you, that Crist has thrown a pick in his 7 out of his last 8 starts (that's not including his 0-2 vs. Tulsa, in which he was hurt yet again). But you call Tommy out for his turnovers??? What's the difference? The only difference is that when the going gets tough, Crist folds. Tommy doesn't. Thus the 'gamer' title that Crist doesn't hold.



Nope, not at all. In fact, I love Crist, and I find myself pining for him as well at times when watching Tommy. And then I remember how God-awful he was vs. SF (while Rees came in and immediately brought life to the team and took them down the field repeatedly), and I remember him vs USC, and I realize that BK made the right decision.

No one here is saying that Rees is the answer long-term. But he's the best we have RIGHT NOW.

You seem insistent on bringing up last year...and yet you overlook what many posters have pointed out. This ND team is much different from last years team. Crist wasn't asked to manage games..he was asked to win games. He wasn't treated with the kid gloves that Kelly seemed to treat Rees last year.

Come on man. Please spare me this Crist fold garbage...it is completely unsubstantiated and you have no evidence to support it...he has only played NINE games. He is an inexperienced QB. He has actually played less games than Rees. He hasn't been given a chance.

I firmly believe that Kelly is not going to play another QB because he fears a QB controversy. It is possible that he was wrong for benching Crist or that he was wrong for sticking with Rees for so long. We will never know this year because no one besides Rees has been allowed to play.

One thing is abundantly clear to anyone is that Rees doesn't have the tools to lead us to compete for a championship. So the longer we stick with him, the longer it will be before we field a team that can compete for a championship.

 

[pkt77242]

I'm 99% certain that play was credited to tommy. Anytime its a botched lateral it normally is credited to the QB. Kinda like handoff miscues are against the QB.

I could be wrong, but only 1%

I believe ESPN credited it to Wood as they didn't give Tommy a negative rush for that game like they did for the Navy game when he threw it to Theo.

Here is the play by play in the ESPN boxscore

2nd and 3 at ND 27

Cierre Wood rush for a loss of 7 yards, fumbled, recovered by USC Chris Galippo at the NDame 18.

 

[pkt77242]

Yeah, we also have the best offensive line and running game in probably a decade, not to mention the best WR in ND football history, and an all-American candidate TE. In this offense, which is supposed to be wide open, you can't compare numbers to previous years.

You honestly thought we could go 4-0 with a true freshman at QB last year? Trust me, we could have done it again this year; we wouldn't be 3-6 if we had a QB who just limited his mistakes.
And I don't care that he's not putting up the 'numbers' that Clausen and Quinn did. There's a little something called God-given talent, and Rees obviously doesn't have enough of it.

What makes you think that Hendrix would have lmited his mistakes? Did you watch the USC game and his pass attempt. He was lucky it was batted down because it was a pick six if it wasn't.

 

[kmoose]

Why not Hendrix? I'd hope he's more prepared than Tommy was when he first took over as a freshman last year. I'd love to beat Stanford and win the bowl game, but I can't help but feel that it's another lost season. To me, Notre Dame football is about winning championships. Nobody remembers even who won the Fiesta Bowl three years ago; only champions are remembered. We're not going to win one this year and we're not going to win one as long as Rees is the QB. So why not look at other options?

That's the problem...........and it's a *you* problem. Not a Brian Kelly problem, not a Tommy Rees problem, and certainly not MY problem. If winning championships is what it is all about, for you, then you will never be satisfied. Notre Dame has been playing College Football for approximately 125 seasons, and has 12 Championships. That's less than one every ten years. I would venture to say that if it is about Championships for you, then you're probably missing the point.