Post Game Observations (Pitt)...

[kmoose]

Think about the 1988 year.

KO returner was a FRESHMAN...and so was the PR.

You might remember them, they were Raghib Ismail and Ricky Watters. They only had 3 returns for TDs that year, at least. And our punter was solid, as well.

And we had Reggie Ho, a WALKON, who was super clutch that year.

Lou put the BEST players on the field, PERIOD. It is pretty simple, when you have definitive weaknesses at key positions like the QB position then you need to find ways to upgrade or solidify other areas, which is often the ST which MANY coaching staffs ignore, to their detriment. It is not just BK, but since I do not care about any other teams, I feel the need to point out how atrocious the OVERALL special teams play has been, in general, for the last 20-plus years.

Ricky Watters was a sophomore in 1988. He played his first season for the Irish in 1987.

So who is a better PR than TJ Jones? And who is a better KR than GAIII?

 

[philipm31]

I think most of the people on this board are too young to really remember the Holtz years.
Or at the very least they are remembering with irish slanted glasses.

There were numerous times where we won by the skin of our teeth, usually by bad calls or just outright luck. I'm not just talking about the 88 Miami game either. Try to catch some of those games on the classic channels. ND was playing down to the competition most of those years too especially in the Mirer era. I personally was shocked re-watching some of these games since they weren't at all how I remembered them!

I really do think there is something to the fact that everyone we play is "up" for us, while it's impossible to get emotionally invested in every game.

Sure ND won a LOT of close games against teams that they should have beaten and lost to some teams they never had any business losing to (re: BC 1993), but generally Lou would talk up the opposition in public but tell his team the truth, that they were better than any team that they played. And whether it was with a missed FG or forcing late TOs, ND generally found a way to win those close games more often than not....very often bc of special teams.

Just think about ND vs USC in 86; MSU in 87; UM in 88 (Ho kicks GW FG); UM in 89, MIA in 1990....the emphasis on ST was enormously integral to ND pulling out some of those games, whether or not ND was playing to the level of their competition. HOWEVER, they also RAISED their level of competitiveness against ELITE teams too.

 

[GoIrish41]

This is my one problem with the Kelly era. There is WAY to much scheme and even thought in some situations. At some point the better player has to get to play. When a young player, or even just a back-up, gets his shot and out performs the person he is behind, get his *** on the field. Some players are just gamers. They practice like an average player but have the 'IT' factor come game time and its all natural instinct. Luke has looked great on D, yet plays rarely. Our freshman WRs have shown great potential when they get on the field, yet they are lucky to see 1-3 plays a game. DD, I think you could be the best in CFB next year, but you look disinterested at times. Folston kills it one week and watches us lose from the sidelines the next. Kelly even said a few weeks ago they were trying to get GA III and Amir going. Why? Quit trying to get someone going and allow the ones that are to lead us to a W. This isn't ****ing baseball, you don't try to get players hot. The better ones need to be on the field.

Good post.

 

[Patulski]

Some of you need to start FOLLOWING ND football, instead of just watching games and then bitching about them.

Kelly said, in his post game presser, that the flow of the game dictated trying to attack Pitt's run defense by getting outside, which plays into GAIII's(NOT Folston's) strengths. So it called for GAIII (and TJ Jones) to get those carries.

Folston started the game, then the flow of the game took him out of the gameplan.

Agreed. And GAIII averaged 9.5 ypc and Jones 13.7 last night.

However, I think it is a legitimate concern/criticism that Kelly has not developed an inside running game that can get 2 yards on 3rd down when he needs to. This inability puts too much on Rees, who has been an inconsistent passer his entire career and can't pick up two yards running the ball on a QB scramble. IMO it is a strategic error by Kelly not to have developed a tougher, short yardage inside running game this year.

 

[irishfan]

It's just amazing to me that we threw the ball 38 times and we were winning for much of the game and never down by more than one score. Only 6 runs in the 2nd half? We ran it 23 times for 139 yards. It doesn't make any sense to to put the game on Rees' shoulders when you know he's an average QB at best. Especially considering the depleted front 7, you would figure we'd try and work the clock on offense if possible.

 

[philipm31]

Ricky Watters was a sophomore in 1988. He played his first season for the Irish in 1987.

So who is a better PR than TJ Jones? And who is a better KR than GAIII?

OK, well against MICH his freshman year, Lou put Ricky in to "teach him a lesson" and Ricky promptly scored a TD against the Wolverines.

The key point here is that Lou put his BEST players on the field and integrated them into the offense, defense AND special teams in a way that culminated with the best NDFB in YEARS...a type of run that will likely never be duplicated, sadly.

IDK who is better than those two because we NEVER get to see anyone else TRY. Seriously, it is sad to think how far off our ST return game has fallen, and our kicking and punting is generally solid, but not anything spectacular.

 

[philipm31]

Bowl Championship Series - Where Are They Now? Michael Stonebreaker

Stonebreaker always had a knack for making huge plays at the most critical of times. He said it was easy for him to get up for such battles.

"No matter who we played, everybody's big game was Notre Dame," he said. "We were their biggest game of the year, so we had to play at the highest level to keep winning. As a team, we always had a unique sense of urgency in those games."

I have yet to see ND play with that kind of sense of urgency for an entire game under anyone since Lou left.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Some of you need to start FOLLOWING ND football, instead of just watching games and then bitching about them.

Kelly said, in his post game presser, that the flow of the game dictated trying to attack Pitt's run defense by getting outside, which plays into GAIII's(NOT Folston's) strengths. So it called for GAIII (and TJ Jones) to get those carries.

Folston started the game, then the flow of the game took him out of the gameplan.

Kelly's own words to a question regarding lack of carries for Folston:

“There were a couple of times where we felt like George gave us a better opportunity in there because of the kind of runs,” Kelly explained. “We were trying to get the ball on the perimeter. George is a guy that we like when the game is a perimeter game, it fits George’s skill-set, so that’s why you saw him in the game more.”

 

[Dizzyphil]

Kelly's own words to a question regarding lack of carries for Folston:

“There were a couple of times where we felt like George gave us a better opportunity in there because of the kind of runs,” Kelly explained. “We were trying to get the ball on the perimeter. George is a guy that we like when the game is a perimeter game, it fits George’s skill-set, so that’s why you saw him in the game more.”

Saw that too somewhat..... I really thought having all the talent in the backfield the Irish has was going to be a good problem... I said in an earlier post, I really hate if for Amir ~ I really thought he was going to be huge this year.

GO IRISH!!!!!!!!!
Diz

 

[Irish Insanity]

Kelly's own words to a question regarding lack of carries for Folston:

“There were a couple of times where we felt like George gave us a better opportunity in there because of the kind of runs,” Kelly explained. “We were trying to get the ball on the perimeter. George is a guy that we like when the game is a perimeter game, it fits George’s skill-set, so that’s why you saw him in the game more.”

To me thats an excuse. GA III hasn't ran well outside this year, and Folston on his limited carries has.

 

[GoIrish41]

Kmoose......I did not see/hear the post game presser. Do any of the reporters have the guts to ask Kelly if he is ready to make a change at safety and bench Farley? He has to see it.....but he keeps saying the other guys are not ready. With a bye week to prepare for BYU, could this be the time to pull the plug?

Farley is not ready either. With two relatively meaningless games ahead, it is time to see what these young guys can do. Keeping guys on the bench who are better than the guys in front of them can do a few things. 1. Put a chip on their shoulder and make them try harder to demonstrate that they should be starting.(obviously the best case senario) 2. Deflate them and make them use confidence, affecting them for seasons to come, or 3. **** them off and make them want to transfer. I hope you are right and they get some of these young guys on the field against BYU and that it is not too late for the bad consequences to have taken hold.

 

[palinurus]

Get a ****ing grip.

PIT was a 5 point underdog not a 40 point Div II cupcake.

I'm afraid the pointspread more reflected the bookies expectations of what ND's performance would be, banged up and on the road against a usually-competitive opponent and coming off an poor defensive outing vs. Navy (in other words, reflective of ND's quality), than it did the view of Pitt's quality. Pitt really is not a talented team. ND should beat Pitt 9 out of ten times, even banged up. But you need to deliver a fairly consistent, workmanlike, not-poor-judgment/fundamentals performance, at least. Last night's output did not meet that standard.

 

[Patulski]

Ricky Watters was a sophomore in 1988. He played his first season for the Irish in 1987.

So who is a better PR than TJ Jones? And who is a better KR than GAIII?

The other thing is how well blocked Holtz's Special Teams were. That 1988 Return by Watters started with Watters having a huge hole to get up to full running speed, and then he had only the kicker to beat. Kelly's Special teams do not block well and do not contain or tackle well. We have plenty enough speed/playmakers to have good Special Teams. What we do not have is good blocking and tackling.

 

[philipm31]

To me thats an excuse. GA III hasn't ran well outside this year, and Folston on his limited carries has.

GAIII has ONE skill, SPEED. That is it. He is NOT a natural RB and anyone who thinks he is is vastly mistaken, coaches or otherwise.

Folston and Carlisle are much better options at the RB position, as is McDaniel. GAIII needs to be relegated to KR, and that is all.

 

[philipm31]

The other thing is how well blocked Holtz's Special Teams were. That 1988 Return by Watters started with Watters having a huge hole to get up to full running speed, and then he had only the kicker to beat. Kelly's Special teams do not block well and do not contain or tackle well. We have plenty enough speed/playmakers to have good Special Teams. What we do not have is good blocking and tackling.

EXACTLY.

Which is exactly what I am trying to point out how important an EMPHASIS on ST--EVERY aspect of it--can be KEY to a team's success. NO coach since Holtz left has ever, EVER put an emphasis on having great ST play.

If I remember correctly, Watters had 2 PR TD that year, and Rocket had 2 KO TD in one game against Rice in 88. Rocket did it again in 89 against (2 KO TD) against Michigan.

Having elite ST is HUGELY important.

 

[GoIrish41]

\

GAIII has ONE skill, SPEED. That is it. He is NOT a natural RB and anyone who thinks he is is vastly mistaken, coaches or otherwise.

Folston and Carlisle are much better options at the RB position, as is McDaniel. GAIII needs to be relegated to KR, and that is all.

Has shown nothing to make me think he is a natural RB either. He, too, is a fast guy without much natural running instinct. Folston should be getting the bulk of the carries, and only come out of the game to get a rest so he can go back in and get more carries. He is a natural RB. Outside of Cam (who I also think is a natural RB, albeit without Folston's talent), I don't see anyone having the skillset to take carries away from Folston. I used to think that Carlisle should be moved to slot, but that was before I realized his hands were made of stone. Sadly, he is a good athlete with limitations (not unlike GAIII).

 

[palinurus]

Our turnover ratio probably is bad, but more so because our defense isn't very agressive. Going into tonight Tommy had 8 INTs, which is the same as Johnny Manziel, Taylor Kelly, 3 less than Gardner, and 1 more than Mettenberger. QBs throw INTs. They're not always pretty, but they're going to happen. Quite frankly, we shouldn't have had to rely on Tommy throwing as much as we have this season. We should have focused on our run game and allowed Tommy to take advantage of Play Action.

Ding, ding, ding!!!!!!! Yep. That's it. Exactly right. Should not have such game plans; it was not even indicated by an inability to run. (Although there are interceptions (Tommy's last week when Jones (I think it was) slipped and fell on a timing route) and then there are "INTERCEPTIONS" (last nights brain freeze interception in the end zone).

 

[dang227]

The whole running outside to avoid Donald is horsecrap. Nix is one of the best DTs in the nation and Pitt ran effectively inside. Thought I would feel better today but the longer the day goes the more pissed I get. Good teams don't lose to teams like Pitt. Look at their wins this year. What an embarrassment.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[philipm31]

Has shown nothing to make me think he is a natural RB either. He, too, is a fast guy without much natural running instinct. Folston should be getting the bulk of the carries, and only come out of the game to get a rest so he can go back in and get more carries. He is a natural RB. Outside of Cam (who I also think is a natural RB, albeit without Folston's talent), I don't see anyone having the skillset to take carries away from Folston. I used to think that Carlisle should be moved to slot, but that was before I realized his hands were made of stone. Sadly, he is a good athlete with limitations (not unlike GAIII).

Trying to make Carlisle into a slot receiver out of the backfield obviously will never work, but he is likely a better RB option than GAIII....anyone is, honestly. Except Tommy, of course.

 

[Patulski]

To me thats an excuse. GA III hasn't ran well outside this year, and Folston on his limited carries has.

Nonsense. GAIII's speed blows the doors off of Folston. Folston is a good all purpose back, but saying he can run outside like GAIII is stupidity. Against Oklahoma, Folston got run down by a safety. GAIII was gone and nobody was going to catch him. Against Navy, GAIII blew past Navy's safety's like they were standing still on his long inside run. Folston punished them, but couldn't run past them.

They are different backs with different skill sets and we are fortunate to have both.

GAIII can rip off a 50 yard run at any time. Kelly know this, which is why GAIII is going to continue to be a mainstay in the rotation. It is Cam who is going to be left behind in the dust by Folston and Bryant, who have similar skill sets but better speed and power



GAIII averaged 9.4 ypc last night, came into the game averaging 5.9 and all you guys do is rip him. It is lunacy.

 

[gkautz10]

--Mathias Farley sucks. Period. Great kid is going to be very
successful at something else, but he is not a good football player.
--This is a perfect example of a Tommy Rees season. He has played better than I expected....until tonight. We will finish an underwhelming 8-4 and some will say how great Tommy played given his abilities while ignoring the facts. He just isn't that good.
--ND needs to get someone in there that knows something about calling plays.
--Bennett may be worse than Gary Gray. Does he not know how to turn his head??
--Refs were absolutely terrible. I hope all ACC refs are not this bad. Good lord.
--As others have said, why do we empty the backfield on 3rd and 2??? Run the damn ball or at least make it an option.
--I wonder if some of the poor play calling is not due to Tommy checking out of the plays called into something he wants to do.
--Overall disappointing game.

 

[philipm31]

Nonsense. GAIII's speed blows the doors off of Folston. Folston is a good all purpose back, but saying he can run outside like GAIII is stupidity. Against Oklahoma, Folston got run down by a safety. GAIII was gone and nobody was going to catch him. Against Navy, GAIII blew past Navy's safety's like they were standing still on his long inside run. Folston punished them, but couldn't run past them.

They are different backs with different skill sets and we are fortunate to have both.

GAIII can rip off a 50 yard run at any time. Kelly know this, which is why GAIII is going to continue to be a mainstay in the rotation. It is Cam who is going to be left behind in the dust by Folston and Bryant, who have similar skill sets but better speed and power



GAIII averaged 9.4 ypc last night, came into the game averaging 5.9 and all you guys do is rip him. It is lunacy.

So you think that someone whom you just said is an ALL AROUND BETTER BACK than GAIII should NOT be getting more carries than a "RB" who can ONLY run fast in a straight line?

Come on, now.

If Bryant, McDaniel, Folston and Carlisle can all run downhill and are all more natural RBs than GAIII, then why should they get short shrift to a person with only one discernible skill???

 

[Patulski]

Trying to make Carlisle into a slot receiver out of the backfield obviously will never work, but he is likely a better RB option than GAIII....anyone is, honestly. Except Tommy, of course.

They hyperbolic stupidity is reaching new levels here.


Notre Dame Individual Rushing Statistics

 

[DillonHall]

So you think that someone whom you just said is an ALL AROUND BETTER BACK than GAIII should NOT be getting more carries than a "RB" who can ONLY run fast in a straight line?

Come on, now.

If Bryant, McDaniel, Folston and Carlisle can all run downhill and are all more natural RBs than GAIII, then why should they get short shrift to a person with only one discernible skill???

So you care more about your personal assessment of each RB's skill set than actual statistics?

 

[Patulski]

So you think that someone whom you just said is an ALL AROUND BETTER BACK than GAIII should NOT be getting more carries than a "RB" who can ONLY run fast in a straight line?

Come on, now.

If Bryant, McDaniel, Folston and Carlisle can all run downhill and are all more natural RBs than GAIII, then why should they get short shrift to a person with only one discernible skill???

Running downhill running is running in a straight line you dummy.

I swear, it isn't even worth my time.

Goodbye.

 

[palinurus]

Some of you need to start FOLLOWING ND football, instead of just watching games and then bitching about them.

Kelly said, in his post game presser, that the flow of the game dictated trying to attack Pitt's run defense by getting outside, which plays into GAIII's(NOT Folston's) strengths. So it called for GAIII (and TJ Jones) to get those carries.

Folston started the game, then the flow of the game took him out of the gameplan.

The problem with the coach's conclusion is that I've seen Folston make sideways moves -- to the outside -- in the last two games he played in. Those were moves that no other back we have can make. Look, I know that Martin and Kelly know a zillion times more than I do about offense and football generally; but people in positions of authority in all walks of life, who "know more" than others, make errors in judgment all the time. I refuse to believe that ND could not run on that Pitt defense. Just double team the All American tackle and run. In fact, they average almost 6 ypc. Not saying to bench GA, just that four carries for Folston after his breakout was a misuse, and it's not like he can run only inside.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Nonsense. GAIII's speed blows the doors off of Folston. Folston is a good all purpose back, but saying he can run outside like GAIII is stupidity. Against Oklahoma, Folston got run down by a safety. GAIII was gone and nobody was going to catch him. Against Navy, GAIII blew past Navy's safety's like they were standing still on his long inside run. Folston punished them, but couldn't run past them.

They are different backs with different skill sets and we are fortunate to have both.

GAIII can rip off a 50 yard run at any time. Kelly know this, which is why GAIII is going to continue to be a mainstay in the rotation. It is Cam who is going to be left behind in the dust by Folston and Bryant, who have similar skill sets but better speed and power



GAIII averaged 9.4 ypc last night, came into the game averaging 5.9 and all you guys do is rip him. It is lunacy.

Many posters have correctly pointed out that his YPC is misleading. He is our home run back, but he lacks the lean and is prone to run east west. His vision comes and goes. In short, he doesn't have the instincts of an every down back. Kelly's use of him is correct.

What is in question is why Kelly doesn't utilize Folston more? Is he still injured? After basically carrying the offense against Navy, he is rewarded by...being a decoy?

 

[Grahambo]

After all those things from yesterday that we aren't happy about, those two awful INTs lost the game.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

After all those things from yesterday that we aren't happy about, those two awful INTs lost the game.

On the first INT, why do you roll out Rees? How many F'n times have we seen Rees struggle rolling out? Why do you call a roll out?

The second INT was more trying to make up for the first. He was clearly shaken.

 

[Buster Bluth]

On the first INT, why do you roll out Rees? How many F'n times have we seen Rees struggle rolling out? Why do you call a roll out?

Especially on the goal line. Just totally stupid. Why reduce the field to a half-field read when it's already tight coverage? Doesn't make any sense.