OT: Gumbel on Winter Games

[TexasDomer]

Jig,

Does that mean track and field events don't count, since they don't occur on a court, simulate a combat situation or involve team (other than relays)?

Just trying to get a handle on the definition.

 

[Vince Young]

See, this is exactly why I'm staying out of the definition debate. There's no clear answer, and even if there WAS a clear answer, it wouldn't matter at all anyway. TexasDomer, if you enjoy watching or participating in track and field events, that's all that should really matter. Who cares if they're "sports"?

What pisses me off is Gumbel's racial cheap shot, but now I'm repeating myself.

 

[jiggafini19]

TexasDomer, Vince Young pretty much sums it up.

It is tough to find a solid definition. By my rationale, figure skating, dogshows and cheerleading are not sports. I don't see how dance can be, but it is to some people.

Track and Field, of course, is. The competition against others (distance, speed, etc) makes it a logical choice.

Sport can actually be divided into categories (Rigorous and Non), making this even tougher. Probably the worst debate in my 3 semesters of Athletic Administration grad school.

 

[AlbuquerqueIrishFan]

This was a very racist statement and if the tables were turned, then there would be hell to pay. But, for some reason, Bryant gets a pass by most of the medica. And the reason the media is giving him a pass is because they don't want to project themselves as being against Black athletes in any way.

 

[jiggafini19]

I find it difficult for us, as a nation and society, to make any progress in regards to race relations because it is often made an issue when it should not be an issue at all. Thus, people get angry at one another because of the debates that follow.

I respect the feelings of everyone in every race because I've never experienced what it is like to be anything other than a white, Italian American male. I can tell you that my great grandparents were discriminated against when they first came here from Italy. It seems that every ethnic group, in some form or another, endured their share of persecution in America.

For people such as Gumbel and Jason Whitlock to continue to bring race into trivial backgrounds like athletics only hurts the cause. It does not help it. Just as the wounds of the Los Angeles/Rodney King riots began to heal, Johnny Cochrane turned Americans against each other by playing the race card in the Simpson Case and more than ten years later I still don't think we've recovered from it.

Race is an issue because people like Gumbel, Whitlock, etc. make it one in issues of sport where it is not only irrelevant, but in most cases they are usually wrong. I've said this on this board before and I'll say it again: You'd better be DAMN SURE of your facts when you accuse someone or something of being racist. It is very irresponsible to accuse someone of being racist when they are not. That is not a title you should go throwing around.

Yet people do it more often than not. I guess it just saddens me because I am not racist....I tend to look at people's attitudes and point of view regardless of their skin color, gender or religion.

@ssholes come in all shapes, sizes and colors. I simply don't have time to dice them up into categories.

 

[Aerosmith777]

First off I'm not saying baseball players are elite athletes, they are good at a certain skill..
Just like Nascar drivers are not elite athletes, but elite at a certain skill.
I don't think Snow boarders are elite athletes, skiers are not elite athletes, they just have amazing balance.

1. A large number of Olympic sports are Quasi sports...do you guys really disagree?

Yes, I would disagree that most of these are "quasi-sports" (with the exception of curling). In fact, I happen to believe there are a ton more "quasi-sports" at the summer games than the winter ones. Again, you compared apples to oranges. Nascar is not the same as skiing and snowboarding, b/c driving is not a physical activity. Both require a certain skill set, yes, but ALL SPORTS REQUIRE A CERTAIN SKILL SET! Even track, you have to be able to run fast. Speed isn't a skill? The diference (to me at least, I'm sure some Nascar fans would dispute this and I'd welcome the discussion) is that driving in Nascar isn't a physical set of skills, it's a mental one. A sport that measures great balance (like skiing) to me is no less a sport than one that measure great speed (track) since both are measuring a physical ability that can be compared against competition.

Speed skaters, Cross Country Skiers, etc are athletes but considering maybe 10% of the world has access to these sports, I would say it is a stretch to call the elite of these groups the WORLDS GREATEST Athletes.

A lot more people have access to all these sports than you give credit for. Russia is always one of the best contries at the olylmpics, and China usually does fairly well for itself too. That's the world's biggest countries area-wise and population-wise, respectively. You throw in all of the eastern block, Canada, Switzerland, Finland, Norway, and Sweden and that's a whole lot more than 10% of the world's population.

I think some are so pizzed about racial issues that they arent paying attention to what is being said.

2. These aren't the WORLDS GREATEST athletes, just the best people at these certain quasi sports...
If he didn't bring up blacks, I doubt any of you would disagree with him

All right, then just admit that no one is an elite athlete under your defintion, b/c there is no "sport" in which everyone across the world competes in evenly. even soccer, probly the world's most popular sport, isn't played everywhere to the same degree (or much at all in some places).

And your wrong that the only reason I'm pissed is b/c race was brought up. Oh, I don't deny that's a very big part of it and probly why i'm so pissed at Gumbel, but it always pisses me off when people try to make this ridiculously narrow definition of "sport" (that usually conveniently only encompasses the one's they're interested in) and then goes and tells an athlete that has physically and mentally prepared for their whole lives to compete that what they do isn't a "sport," but is only a "quasi-sport" that they really wouldn't be that good in if everyone else in the world competed in it (nevermind that no one ever says the same thing to athletes in predominently black sports like basketball or football, nor should they). That's just so friggin arrogant to me.

 

[Aerosmith777]

I find it difficult for us, as a nation and society, to make any progress in regards to race relations because it is often made an issue when it should not be an issue at all. Thus, people get angry at one another because of the debates that follow.
I respect the feelings of everyone in every race because I've never experienced what it is like to be anything other than a white, Italian American male. I can tell you that my great grandparents were discriminated against when they first came here from Italy. It seems that every ethnic group, in some form or another, endured their share of persecution in America.
For people such as Gumbel and Jason Whitlock to continue to bring race into trivial backgrounds like athletics only hurts the cause. It does not help it. Just as the wounds of the Los Angeles/Rodney King riots began to heal, Johnny Cochrane turned Americans against each other by playing the race card in the Simpson Case and more than ten years later I still don't think we've recovered from it.
Race is an issue because people like Gumbel, Whitlock, etc. make it one in issues of sport where it is not only irrelevant, but in most cases they are usually wrong. I've said this on this board before and I'll say it again: You'd better be DAMN SURE of your facts when you accuse someone or something of being racist. It is very irresponsible to accuse someone of being racist when they are not. That is not a title you should go throwing around.
Yet people do it more often than not. I guess it just saddens me because I am not racist....I tend to look at people's attitudes and point of view regardless of their skin color, gender or religion.
@ssholes come in all shapes, sizes and colors. I simply don't have time to dice them up into categories.

someone's really gotta do something about why I can't give you rep points. I mean, i've spread it around and all, and it still keeps giving me that error message.

 

[Gizmo]

Nascar is not the same as skiing and snowboarding, b/c driving is not a physical activity. Both require a certain skill set, yes, but ALL SPORTS REQUIRE A CERTAIN SKILL SET! Even track, you have to be able to run fast. Speed isn't a skill? The diference (to me at least, I'm sure some Nascar fans would dispute this and I'd welcome the discussion) is that driving in Nascar isn't a physical set of skills, it's a mental one. A sport that measures great balance (like skiing) to me is no less a sport than one that measure great speed (track) since both are measuring a physical ability that can be compared against competition.

I'm not the biggest NASCAR fan in the world, but from time to time I'll watch a race on Sunday and I follow the standings. I'll try and be as unbiased as possible here.

Driving is in fact a physical set of skills because these guys are not driving luxury sedans with power steering and automatic transmission. I've sat in the cars and you're extremely low to the ground and packed in tight, so it's very uncomfortable. Turning the wheel at that speed on highly banked turns requires a great deal of strength and these guys are in hot cars wearing hot suits for hours at a time. They literally sweat the pounds away during a race. It takes a great deal of physical strength and stamina to succeed. I don't think hitting a baseball or a golf ball is in any way more physically demanding. It might be more difficult, but definitely not more physically demanding.

These drivers have very little body fat and are in great shape and if they weren't they would be at a distinct disadvantage. It's a team sport too, so it's not all about the drivers. The pit crew is just as important and over the past few years teams have been implementing physical training routines for their pit crews. I remember Tony Stewart designing workouts for his pit crew and it helped to shave a few seconds off his pit stops, and a few seconds in NASCAR can make all the difference.

People say that cars are all that matters, but if that was the case then sponsors wouldn't really care who their driver was (PR and image are also important too). Just like adjusting your engine can help these guys, so too can nutritional supplements and athletic gear help more traditional athletes. A good driver (like any other good athlete) is irreplaceable.

I think there are a few reasons why people are so quick to dismiss NASCAR as a sport. First of all, most of us will never sit in a car let alone drive it, so we have no idea what kind of physical demands these guys are under. Second of all, a lot of people look down their nose at the "rednecks" or "good ol' boys" that are racing (as well as watching). And lastly, the car gets the attention because it is what we see and hear and feel during the race so we give the car more credit than it deserves.

Again, I'm not the biggest NASCAR fan in the world, but to simply write them off as athletes is ignorant in my opinion.

 

[Aerosmith777]

Yeah, you may be right. I guess it just seems to me that the car is really what does all the work, and what seperates one driver from another is more a combination of mental skills, and physical abilities of the car more so than the driver. But you're right, I've never seen an overweight driver (can't say the same for football or baseball).

And when I said I don't necessarily consider NASCAR a "sport," I'm not looking down my nose at the fans or dismissing NASCAR's obvious importance in American culture (north and south of the mason dixon line). I mean, I wouldn't consider poker a sport either, but I certainly recognize it's growing popularity in the realm of American competitive activities.

I'm just not 100% sold on labeling NASCAR a sport b/c it doesn't seem to me that its much of a test of physicaly abilities of the driver, but I'm not a fan so I'll admit I'm probly too ignorant of it to really say either way.

 

[Gizmo]

Aerosmith, I agree with a lot of what you said (and FWIW I was speaking in general terms rather than accusing you of anything). If I were ranking sports in terms of their "sportiness" I would rank NASCAR below the major sports, track & field, etc.

You're right, despite the many sporting aspects of NASCAR the car is extremely important and has more of an impact on the competition than standard sporting equipment like clubs, sneakers, or clothing. But despite its importance, I don't consider good work done by a mechanic or an engineer to be in any way athletic. Making a car faster is difficult and necessary, but like poker it's more competitive than athletic. I guess NASCAR can best be described as some sort of hybrid between sports and competition.

Interesting how we went from Bryant Gumbel to NASCAR in four pages. Spring Training, March Madness, and the Blue & Gold Game can't come soon enough.

 

[Aerosmith777]

Interesting how we went from Bryant Gumbel to NASCAR in four pages. Spring Training, March Madness, and the Blue & Gold Game can't come soon enough.

Amen. All I can say is, year 2 under Charlie can't come fast enough.