Not a Top Ten Team?

[jiggafini19]

Crap no.

With an undergrad and a masters degree I have a fraction of his debt, and it is all from grad school. I came out of 5 years of college like Andy Dufrain in Shawshank...clean on the other side.

Notre Dame High School was good enough for me.

 

[grantland]

Fair enough. I obviously love ND. My dad/uncle/aunt went there. My grandparents live in SB. My sister goes there now. I didn't get in, which is fine. But when I knew quite a few people at ND when I went to school in Ohio. And I have to admit that the majority of them gloated about it as much as they could.

ND has a great college football tradition. But I think it is important to remember that ND could honestly be any school. Any Catholic University especially. Yes, they care about their students.

But don't think they aren't recruiting a guy that is a 5 star prospect with a 3.0 GPA over a guy that is a 3 star with a 4.0. They have higher standards. Which means two things, it is partially tougher to recruit because you can't just take anyone that can read a book. And it is positive in that you can advertise how much a degree from ND is worth.

The problem is, most upper-echelon guys aren't generally going to college thinking, "I want to play football to get a free education." They are thinking, "I want to go pro."

In a system like that, Charlie has to cater towards that attitude, which he is doing. I think he has done a great job of trying to keep everyone focused, he obviously knows how ND handles their sports...

Anyway, I guess it just feels a lot better when ND alums/players/coaches/media don't just play the "graduation rate" card everytime ND doesn't do so well at football.

It seems to be everywhere this year, especially after the UM loss, I saw tons of people quoting that. If you are on a board discussing the best law programs, feel free to throw that out there. Otherwise, let's just be humble about a great school academically, which is not being tested by other school's academic programs, but by their football programs.

SAT scores don't count as points in a football game. If the "higher moral ground" is the only thing we can hang over our heads, it generally means we got beat.

With the exception of MSU, they are just downright lousy at FB, academics, and honor

I try to keep the gloating to a minimum, however, let's just say I am really proud to have had the opportunity to have attended ND.

ND could be just any other school, but that is the exact point I am making (and I would assume Charlie is making), it is not. Also, remember to take my posts as they were orignally intended, as an argument why a potential football recruit would/should choose ND over Hometown U.

Believe me, I would argue all day that ND should take the 5-star, 3.0 GPA (assuming the recruit has good character) over the 3-star, 4.0. I (and I am sure Charlie) could only hope that all recruits had a 3.0 GPA. However, I think it goes so much further than talent on the football field and GPA ESPECIALLY as the GPA/SAT decreases. What are the recruits other activities, leadership roles, character, how does he do on interviews, etc., etc. One good example of this is Tony Rice. He did not have the greatest grades coming out of high school but ND made the determination that he could make it at ND. What an uproar there was about letting him in at the time (among the students). Though many articles etc. would have the public believe that a school looks purely at the numbers to let students in, so much more goes into the calculation (at least at ND). I for one am willing to let a recruit in with lower grades (over a lower recruit with better grades) if he is going to add to the school in other ways (e.g., a good football team) and if the determination has been made that he will graduate. I am sure Admissions considers this and attempts to achieve an overall balance in each class.

Another positive for choosing ND (over UNC at least) is that there is a better "pipeline" to the NFL if you were to play for Weis. Forgot about that.

As far as playing the grad rate card when we are not doing so well at football - I think we are doing pretty well at football. The point of the superior graduation rate is that yes, one can obtain a great education anywhere, however, at ND the student WILL obtain that education. To be honest, this is probably more of a selling point to the parents than the recruit. Of course, the recruit makes the final decision, however and needless to say, mom and dad have some influence.

I would be happy to discuss top law programs. By your comment it seems as though you have done a little research on me personally.

Finally, remember, this is not an apology for why ND is a great school even though we are losing football games. We are in fact winning football games. Rather, this is an argument why a recruit might choose ND over hometown U. I would assume Charlie makes the same arguments, though probably a bit more eloquently.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

They might be elitist, but I wouldn't take their student loans after they graduate.

I've got two degrees on my wall and I'm not anywhere close to the debt some of my high school buddies are that went to ND. Hell, one of them told me he'd give me his degree to hang on the wall for 6 months if I paid 6 months worth of his loans.

hahahahaha

My undergrad was pricey like ND. My parents paid for my undergrad (as their parents paid for theirs...and so on). However, I paid for my Grad school. It ran me about $35,000 in loans. Overall, that was pretty much the same as nearly any other top50 program (it was less than some too).

 

[FleaFlicker]

I try to keep the gloating to a minimum, however, let's just say I am really proud to have had the opportunity to have attended ND.

ND could be just any other school, but that is the exact point I am making (and I would assume Charlie is making), it is not. Also, remember to take my posts as they were orignally intended, as an argument why a potential football recruit would/should choose ND over Hometown U.

Believe me, I would argue all day that ND should take the 5-star, 3.0 GPA (assuming the recruit has good character) over the 3-star, 4.0. I (and I am sure Charlie) could only hope that all recruits had a 3.0 GPA. However, I think it goes so much further than talent on the football field and GPA ESPECIALLY as the GPA/SAT decreases. What are the recruits other activities, leadership roles, character, how does he do on interviews, etc., etc. One good example of this is Tony Rice. He did not have the greatest grades coming out of high school but ND made the determination that he could make it at ND. What an uproar there was about letting him in at the time (among the students). Though many articles etc. would have the public believe that a school looks purely at the numbers to let students in, so much more goes into the calculation (at least at ND). I for one am willing to let a recruit in with lower grades (over a lower recruit with better grades) if he is going to add to the school in other ways (e.g., a good football team) and if the determination has been made that he will graduate. I am sure Admissions considers this and attempts to achieve an overall balance in each class.

Another positive for choosing ND (over UNC at least) is that there is a better "pipeline" to the NFL if you were to play for Weis. Forgot about that.

As far as playing the grad rate card when we are not doing so well at football - I think we are doing pretty well at football. The point of the superior graduation rate is that yes, one can obtain a great education anywhere, however, at ND the student WILL obtain that education. To be honest, this is probably more of a selling point to the parents than the recruit. Of course, the recruit makes the final decision, however and needless to say, mom and dad have some influence.

I would be happy to discuss top law programs. By your comment it seems as though you have done a little research on me personally.

Finally, remember, this is not an apology for why ND is a great school even though we are losing football games. We are in fact winning football games. Rather, this is an argument why a recruit might choose ND over hometown U. I would assume Charlie makes the same arguments, though probably a bit more eloquently.

Good post. I agree with you about most of that stuff. I guess I am just a bit sensitive towards the "my school is better, therefore I am better" attitude. I'm not saying that is necessarily what you are representing, just what I have dealt with a lot from Notre Dame people (some of my family included).

And the initial post just struck a chord with that I guess.

Back on topic a bit, Notre Dame does have a lot to offer to potential students and football players. But I often wonder if the "Notre Dame swagger" adds to or detracts from the attractiveness of the school.

My gut tells me it adds to it. But personally, if a school like Notre Dame came to me as a high school athlete and was presenting itself along the lines of, "There is no other opportunity as good as ND..." I would be a bit turned off by the arrogance. Whether or not that statement is true. But I would have to think that most high prospect seniors want that swagger and that attitude, so they probably take the bait.

 

[grantland]

Is the 2004 class going to effect our graduation rate?