I really hate this defense.

Clotho

Banned
Messages
396
Reaction score
11
The coaching, the tackling, the effort, the technique. It's just horrible. Every week, no matter how bad the opposing offense is. We're treading water in the polls because the defense makes the offense worse, and makes huge blowouts impossible. Today, with a decent D, this is a 63-7 sort of game. That's how easy our offense has it. But it'll probably wind up 41-24 or so, and we'll keep treading water. Just a shame.

The only solace is that every Sunday I get to cleanse the palate by watching the Bears.
 

Clotho

Banned
Messages
396
Reaction score
11
Also, please no "You see what they just did? So there!" posts. They've been gashed all day.
 

kmoose

Banned
Messages
10,298
Reaction score
1,181
The defense is certainly not stellar. However, this offense (Navy's) is a very technically proficient offense. They execute very well, and are probably THE most (and certainly ONE of the most) disciplined units in the country. The defense held them to 14 points. I wasn't happy with what I saw, but neither did they play horribly. The problem is the linebackers. Your linebackers should be making a TON of tackles, against an option team. How many times did we hear the LBs names called today? A few, but not near as many as we should have. The safeties have had to do WAY too much, in run support, all year. There is no doubt in my mind that a BCS bowl opponent can, and will, exploit that, should we find ourselves in that situation. But this was not a poor offense they faced today.
 
C

ChiND

Guest
Navy had 2 weeks to prepare for this game...there were definitely some wrinkles and looks in the first half that were not seen on tape. Additionally, Navy's offense was definitely "on" today as the triple option was run as well as they could have. Hence, the right adjustments were made at half and they won handily.
 
G

GREENJERSEYS'07

Guest
The coaching, the tackling, the effort, the technique. It's just horrible. Every week, no matter how bad the opposing offense is. We're treading water in the polls because the defense makes the offense worse, and makes huge blowouts impossible. Today, with a decent D, this is a 63-7 sort of game. That's how easy our offense has it. But it'll probably wind up 41-24 or so, and we'll keep treading water. Just a shame.

The only solace is that every Sunday I get to cleanse the palate by watching the Bears.

1st quarter got you down too,huh?????:eek:hwhateve

that's why they play 4

I can remember a few yaers ago I would predict everything that was gonna happen.
Notre Dame runs the ball twice for 4 yards then throws an incomplete pass and has to punt.Defense can't stop anyone.I still get that way a few times this year too.
I'm getting better though.:hug:
 

Clotho

Banned
Messages
396
Reaction score
11
Navy gashed our D most of the game; they had to change their approach a bit when they got down so much, or they'd have run it down our throats successfully all day. They also had horribly timed penalties on offense. Those stopped them more than our D did.
 
R

rontdtarchala

Guest
geeze so some don't want us to complain now....bite me...our d was sad to say the least...come on people rutgers kicked their butts for goodness sakes...the second half was better but when you look like crap anything is better...and also I will critique them all I want thats why I have a site like this...this isn't badmitten boys its football...put your pinky finger on the glass and guzzle the beer you wimps....lol
 

guff

Here for the Arcade
Messages
895
Reaction score
62
geeze so some don't want us to complain now....bite me...our d was sad to say the least...come on people rutgers kicked their butts for goodness sakes...the second half was better but when you look like crap anything is better...and also I will critique them all I want thats why I have a site like this...this isn't badmitten boys its football...put your pinky finger on the glass and guzzle the beer you wimps....lol

Enough with the Rutgers comparisons everyone. Navy's #1 QB (leading rusher and TD scorer) went out in the 1st quarter. The option is based on timing, discpline and knowing what the other guy is going to do and where he's going to be. All of those things were lost when the QB went down. Kaheaku-Enhada had two minutes to get ready for Rutgers and two weeks to get ready for ND.

In the Rutgers game he was the backup, in the ND he was the quarterback.
 

Clotho

Banned
Messages
396
Reaction score
11
And two weeks is suddenly enough time to become as good as the starter? I shudder to think what Navy would have done to our D if their QB hadn't gotten hurt. Navy has a proficient offense against small-time d's. That's it. If they're proficient against a big-time school's D, that D is bad. Thank God we have our offense.
 

KMac151993

Well-known member
Messages
3,603
Reaction score
2,141
And two weeks is suddenly enough time to become as good as the starter? I shudder to think what Navy would have done to our D if their QB hadn't gotten hurt. Navy has a proficient offense against small-time d's. That's it. If they're proficient against a big-time school's D, that D is bad. Thank God we have our offense.

Last week against UCLA however the defense won that game of us. I would say each week one of our teams doesn't show up...more often then not its the D but we weren't exactally offensive juggernauts against G-Tech or UCLA but we still won because of our D.
 

Clotho

Banned
Messages
396
Reaction score
11
The D played well versus GTech but how much of that is just bad gameplanning and bad QBing by Tech? I mean they didn't throw to CJ at all after the first half. That's not our D. He wasn't suddenly covered. But I will agree that that was, overall, a strong defensive performance. Against UCLA they were all right, I guess, but it was against a back-up QB, and they still gave up a horrible TD. That kind of ruins the overall impression of a good defensive performance, when in a close game you give up that ugly a TD.
 

Pete

Well-known member
Messages
2,376
Reaction score
1,846
And two weeks is suddenly enough time to become as good as the starter? I shudder to think what Navy would have done to our D if their QB hadn't gotten hurt. Navy has a proficient offense against small-time d's. That's it. If they're proficient against a big-time school's D, that D is bad. Thank God we have our offense.

They actually said during the game that the Navy offense is the same exact offense that he played in high school. His high school coach played for Johnson
 
G

GREENJERSEYS'07

Guest
geeze so some don't want us to complain now....bite me...our d was sad to say the least...come on people rutgers kicked their butts for goodness sakes...the second half was better but when you look like crap anything is better...and also I will critique them all I want thats why I have a site like this...this isn't badmitten boys its football...put your pinky finger on the glass and guzzle the beer you wimps....lol

to start with i don't drink.
Both of you have every right to complain,but look this turkey started complaing way before the game was over.
navy had the ball 9 times and their first 3 were good drives.
the last 6 times they had the ball it was 3 and out,once it was 5 and out and then they had that decent drive that netted around 50 yards in close to a dozen plays which was shut down.
I was thinking the same thing too in navy's first couple drives,but at least I had the sense not to prematurely post some garbage before the game was over.

I guess since it was navy and all the first couple drives they had really dictates that our defense sux though.Had nothing to do with emotion and hype for the game.
 

VictorsValiant

I LOVE NOTRE DAME
Messages
277
Reaction score
10
Finally, some sanity on Nd's sub-par defense.

I think, going into USC, Nd should just try to get turnovers (fumbles, ints) like what happened to USC today. This secondary will not match up at all against Steve Smith or Dwayne Jarrett. I think the run defense is all right, but the secondary is bad. Part of it is the lack of talent (Message to Charlie: Recruit Defense), but I also think part of it is coaching. I mean, to give up almost 300 yards to Navy, that's pretty bad. If Nd loses to USC, then I don't think it would be a mistake to replace the DC or give him significant help.
 

wahoo

New member
Messages
442
Reaction score
26
The D got gashed pretty good in the 1st half but they didn't give up any points in the second half. The DTs did a decent job of stopping up th middle but I do think one of our problems is the LBs are not making plays like we'd like them to. I wish we had more size at the MLB position. This team could really use a "animal" in the middle like #33 of Ohio State (Laurantius)
 

Vince Young

New member
Messages
1,296
Reaction score
64
I mean, to give up almost 300 yards to Navy, that's pretty bad.

Yeah, and to shut Navy out entirely in the 2nd half is even worse.

Awful. Just awful. BENCH MINTER!

Oh, and uh, Vv?

"I won't post here anymore unless you guys win out leading up to the USC game."
-- VictorsValiant, 9/24/2006 in this post
 

BGIF

Varsity Club
Messages
43,946
Reaction score
2,922
The D played well versus GTech but how much of that is just bad gameplanning and bad QBing by Tech? I mean they didn't throw to CJ at all after the first half. That's not our D. He wasn't suddenly covered. But I will agree that that was, overall, a strong defensive performance. Against UCLA they were all right, I guess, but it was against a back-up QB, and they still gave up a horrible TD. That kind of ruins the overall impression of a good defensive performance, when in a close game you give up that ugly a TD.

Actually they did throw to Johnson after the first half but not as often and not as successfully. He had 5 catches for 95 yds in the 1st half and 2 catches for 16 yds in the 2nd half. His YAC was less in the 2nd half due to doubled coverage.

Actually Johnson was also "suddenly covered". If you listened to Charlie's Press Conference you would have heard him say the ND adjusted the coverage to double up on Johnson and challenge Ball to win with his feet. You'd also know it if you read any post game articles. Here's a quote from the AP story on the ND/GT game:


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Star receiver Calvin Johnson lined up on both sides of the field -- sometimes in the slot, sometimes on the outside. There were zone blocking schemes and moving pockets, all designed to take advantage of Ball's running ability and create more ways to get Johnson open. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]It worked well in the first half as the Yellow Jackets built a 10-0 lead. But Notre Dame scored late in the half, went ahead in the third quarter and managed to keep the ball away from the Yellow Jackets over much of the final two quarters. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Nix credited Notre Dame for putting double coverage on Georgia Tech's receivers -- especially Johnson -- and daring the Yellow Jackets to run the ball. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]"I guess they're smarter than me," Nix said. "They know I'm not patient enough to run it. I was kind of bullheaded and tried to throw a few. Live and learn." [/FONT]
Nix is GT's O.C.
[/FONT]
 

BGIF

Varsity Club
Messages
43,946
Reaction score
2,922
to start with i don't drink.
Both of you have every right to complain,but look this turkey started complaing way before the game was over.
navy had the ball 9 times and their first 3 were good drives.
the last 6 times they had the ball it was 3 and out,once it was 5 and out and then they had that decent drive that netted around 50 yards in close to a dozen plays which was shut down.
I was thinking the same thing too in navy's first couple drives,but at least I had the sense not to prematurely post some garbage before the game was over.

I guess since it was navy and all the first couple drives they had really dictates that our defense sux though.Had nothing to do with emotion and hype for the game.

It's a shame those 2 or 3 complaining posters didn't watch the game as closely as you did. Navy did have 3 good drives but one ended in NO POINTS. A trip to the RED ZONE and shut out. In the 2nd half Navy crossed midfield once getting to the ND 47! I guess the whiners were too busy whining to notice. Here's the Navy Drive Chart to help refresh memories.


[FONT=Courier New, monospace]NAVY 1st N22 11:45 Kickoff D15 06:27 Missed FG 13-63 5:18#[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]NAVY 1st N20 01:32 Kickoff D00 11:39 *TOUCHDOWN 9-80 4:53#[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]NAVY 2nd N35 08:00 Kickoff D00 02:43 *TOUCHDOWN 13-65 5:17#[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]NAVY 2nd N25 01:19 Kickoff N45 00:16 Punt 5-20 1:03[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]NAVY 3rd N20 15:00 Kickoff N26 12:47 Punt 3-6 2:13[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]NAVY 3rd N06 08:10 Kickoff D47 01:28 Downs 12-47 6:42[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]NAVY 4th N01 13:21 Downs N09 12:18 Punt 3-8 1:03[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]NAVY 4th N25 09:36 Kickoff N19 07:42 Punt 3--6 1:54[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, monospace]NAVY 4th N27 02:42 Downs N45 01:44 Fumble 3-18 0:58[/FONT]



</PRE>208 yds on the first 3 drives than drives of 20 yds, 6 yds, 47 yds, 8 yds, MINUS 6 yds, and 18 yds for a total of 93 yds over the next 6 drives or 15.5 yds per drive. Those last 6 drives average 3.2 yd/attempt.

The first 3 drives Navy had 15-1/2 minutes Time of Possession. The next 6 drives Navy had the ball for 14 minutes. First 3 drives averge over 5 minutes/drive. The next 6 (with NO scores) average 2 -1/3 minutes, less than half the average time of the productive drives.

On the opening Navy drive Zibby made 3 of the first 5 tackles, 4 of the first 9. I thought we were going to see a new ALL-TIME Record for tackles by an ND player (26 Crable and Golic) as Zibby was on pace for 25 -30. But he only made 10 more as the load got distributed across the defense.

Tackle Distribution
DE 9
DT 15
LB 22
CB 9
S 19

I can recall Holtz teams that played Navy and Air Force and the Safeties and CBs had the lion's share of the tackles. In this game the Front 7 dominated the tackles.

ND was a 14 point favorite and won by 24.
 
Last edited:

BGIF

Varsity Club
Messages
43,946
Reaction score
2,922
geeze so some don't want us to complain now....bite me...our d was sad to say the least...come on people rutgers kicked their butts for goodness sakes...the second half was better but when you look like crap anything is better...and also I will critique them all I want thats why I have a site like this...this isn't badmitten boys its football...put your pinky finger on the glass and guzzle the beer you wimps....lol

Ron, did you watch the Rutgers game or read a recap of the game?

Did you know that Rutgers blocked a pair of punts getting the ball on Navy's 9 yd line both times. One was turned into a TD the other a FG. Other than that Rutgers Offense generated 24 points, 14 less than ND's offense did.

If you can recall the ND Option under Holtz, it ran smoothly when Rice was running it and not so smoothly when he wasn't. The option is based on reads and timing with the Starting QB getting about 80% or more of the practice snaps and probably 95% of the game day snaps. When Navy's Starter was injured in the 1st Q against Rutgers, the backup knew the plays but did not have the reads nor the timing of the pitch down. And when Rutgers blocked the kicks Navy tried a passing game completing 4 of 16.

Against ND Kaheaku-Enhada had better reads and better timing on the pitch after taking 80% or more of the snaps during the two weeks of practice between Rutgers and ND. His read and pitches were much better but he himself was a much more productive RB. He was 22 for 11 yds against Rutgers but that includes -34 yds for sacks so he actually RAN the ball for about 2 yds/carry. Against ND without the yds lost to sacks he has about 45 yds on 19 carries for 2.4 yds/carry. He really ran wild over ND didn't he Ron?

Ballard the FB, was 6 for 23 yds about 4 yds/carry against the Scarlet Knights. He was 10 for 33 yds, or 3.3 yds/carry. ND actually held him to better than .5 yds less/carry. Slotback Reggie Campbell averaged 5 yds/carry against Rutgers and averaged 5.8 against ND.

Against ND, Navy employed more ball carriers, and more play variations than they did against Rutgers with the less experienced, thrown in the frying pan QB. With two weeks to worked they worked in some new wrinkles which another poster mentioned in this thread. Those wrinkles lead to about a half dozen runs that each gained 13 - 19 yds with one going 26 yds.

As I recall the ND Option, ND consistently had a bunch of 3 or 4 yd gains and then the QB, FB, RB, or a WR on an end around or a reverse would break a big gain. That's how the Option is supposed to work. In the past 15 years regardless of who the ND Head Coach was or who the ND D.C. was, ND held Navy to less than 14 points only 3 times. Navy's averged 17.4 points over that period, 3.4 points MORE than scored against ND Saturday. And ND did that with a LB Corps that was known to be weak in the preseason. I never recall Holtz defending against Navy's or Air Force's Option with a RB at OLB, do you?

If you're going to complain about a ND verses Rutgers at least get some information other than empty glittering generalities and poignant pinky references.
 

guff

Here for the Arcade
Messages
895
Reaction score
62
This defense that everyone seems to hate has allowed 43 second half in eight games and 14 of those points were scored by PSU in garbage time.

GT - 0
PSU - 14 (during garbage time)
UM - 6
MSU - 6
Purdue - 7
Stanfor - 7
UCLA - 3
Navy - 0

I don't think you can quibble with those numbers.
 
B

Batch

Guest
Some Domers on this board show their lack of football knowledge and overall intelligence on this board every weekend and the only thing they do is feed the trolls.

Originally Posted by rontdtarchala View Post
geeze so some don't want us to complain now....bite me...our d was sad to say the least...come on people rutgers kicked their butts for goodness sakes...the second half was better but when you look like crap anything is better...and also I will critique them all I want thats why I have a site like this...this isn't badmitten boys its football...put your pinky finger on the glass and guzzle the beer you wimps....lol

It's not about the complaining its about the lack of forethought and obvious lack of knowledge about the game. I have been on this board almost 2 years and the quality of posts has steadily went downhill in the 10 months.

Let me give you all a little insight...its the friggin Offense!! And in particular the offensive line. We havent run the ball consistently in a two game stretch all year. This same offense averaged 41 points a game during the regular season last year. Are they doing that this year? Doesnt look like it, by my calculations we are averaging almost 12 points less per game for the year. The Defense as shown by guff's FACTS above has been pretty darn good overall and especially in the second half.

Oh, and uh, Vv?

"I won't post here anymore unless you guys win out leading up to the USC game."
-- VictorsValiant, 9/24/2006 in this post

Oh my I missed this...please let this be true.

Please son go tell some other board about how your awesome team only scored 17 against a very tough Northwestern team. Might want to start talking about that juggernaut, Ball state you have on the schedule next weekend also, I am sure that is going to be a squeaker.
 
Last edited:

tommy

Punctuation Nazi
Messages
2,393
Reaction score
47
rep points for vince ,bgif ,scooper ,batch and guff sure you can complain but bitching about it in the first quarter is rediculous .how bout you get out there and do something better . i hate people that switch up every week one week dwalker is garbage the next your in love . one week jeff cant catch a cold the next hes the best wideout in the nation. if your going to bitch be consistant as some one said in this thread it all lays at the feet of the oline and surprisingly enough its not the first year lineman thats most to blame this group has so much time toghether its unreal that they cant block for shit this is the only group ive been on this whole year and will stay on them until they do something .
 
N

notdam4

Guest
Navy is ranked 2nd in the nation in rushing offense, there is a reason for that. Let's compare our Navy game with Tennessee, another top 10 team, and their game against Air Force earlier in the year. Both teams with an option offense that is ranked in the top 3 in the nation. Tennessee allowed Air force to gain 280 rushing yards and score 30 points to barely win that game. Notre Dame allowed 271 rushing yards and gave up 14 points to Navy. I don't see anyone calling for John Chavous' head.
 
Top