How can ND beat Bama?

[Rogue219]

Ryan Harris
@salaams_from_68

ND can beat Bama.

Saban and Belichick are very similar in their def approach.

OC
@T_Rees11
has to find ways to break tendencies and get kyren williams out early in passes to limit 6man blitz.

We always busted up patriots teams by doing that and using the TE in pass.

Here is what Ryan Harris tweeted last night.

So he's making it sound like a total identity overhaul isn't necessary. Just do some different things within character and don't be as predictable.

 

[Free Manera]

To be fair, screen passes have become like fullbacks. I don't really see anyone using them all that much anymore.

HS, college and pro. Just seems like it isn't in the modern day arsenal anymore. When you do see one, and it works, it's an "Ooooh" kind of moment. For those of us old enough to remember screen passes, anyway.

He probably doesn't mean screens in the traditional sense but arrow routes and flares out of the backfield at the pressure. Instead of keeping Kyren in to block constantly, release him to the flats to counter blitzes.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I've been beating this drum for years here. Yes, I'm primarily a Bama guy and I hope we win, but over the past several years ND's become my #2 or #3 team and I'm enough of a fan to care what happens. For all of ND's vaunted (and deserved) chest thumping over being an elite academic school, football is what put you on the map with most of the country's population. It's what most people from coast to coast think of first when they hear the words Notre Dame. The majority of people in this country can't spell Mensa, don't know the difference between geology and geography, and don't know the difference between a Notre Dame and a state college... and they don't care.

They know ND because of The Four Horsemen, Rockne, Joe Montana, Ara, Lou, Rocket and Touchdown Jesus. Football is your calling card. It's what gets you in the door, in their minds, wins their hearts and souls. For the administration to not capitalize on that is criminal. I don't see any reason ND can't have a top tier, dominant, Bama-type program AND stay faithful to the rest of your mission. Football is the difference between you being just another small, academically elite, but relatively unknown to anyone but Catholics school in the middle of nowhere, and being a household name that can go get the best & brightest anywhere in the country.

I agree wholeheartedly. And it is criminal.

 

[Irishize]

I've been beating this drum for years here. Yes, I'm primarily a Bama guy and I hope we win, but over the past several years ND's become my #2 or #3 team and I'm enough of a fan to care what happens. For all of ND's vaunted (and deserved) chest thumping over being an elite academic school, football is what put you on the map with most of the country's population. It's what most people from coast to coast think of first when they hear the words Notre Dame. The majority of people in this country can't spell Mensa, don't know the difference between geology and geography, and don't know the difference between a Notre Dame and a state college... and they don't care.

They know ND because of The Four Horsemen, Rockne, Joe Montana, Ara, Lou, Rocket and Touchdown Jesus. Football is your calling card. It's what gets you in the door, in their minds, wins their hearts and souls. For the administration to not capitalize on that is criminal. I don't see any reason ND can't have a top tier, dominant, Bama-type program AND stay faithful to the rest of your mission. Football is the difference between you being just another small, academically elite, but relatively unknown to anyone but Catholics school in the middle of nowhere, and being a household name that can go get the best & brightest anywhere in the country.

You are spot on. ND’s timing couldn’t have been worse when transitioning away from Holtz. During the span of Davie/Willingham/Weis, the rest of CFB was evolving into mega-conferences w/ tv deals where exposure was on a level of what ND had.

Now ND has lost that advantage but credit to BK for getting them to one of the top P5 programs (after a huge drop off from Bama/Clemson/tOSU). As BK has stated numerous times “We have to shop down a different aisle than the other CFP contenders”. Not saying they can’t win...they can & have...but I think this is their ceiling. They can get some elite 4 & 5 stars who embrace what ND is all about and understand the 4 for 40 advantage. But they can fill their roster with those elite recruits the way Bama/CLemson/tOSU does on a yearly basis.

I know that’s non-negotiable from ND’s administration but it’s also non-negotiable that they can realistically win a national title with one hand behind their back. When you see Bama line up on Jan 1, ask yourself how many of their skill players on both sides of the ball would truly consider ND. Then ask yourself if they could even qualify. Most couldn’t.

 

[IrishTusker]

You are spot on. ND’s timing couldn’t have been worse when transitioning away from Holtz. During the span of Davie/Willingham/Weis, the rest of CFB was evolving into mega-conferences w/ tv deals where exposure was on a level of what ND had.

Now ND has lost that advantage but credit to BK for getting them to one of the top P5 programs (after a huge drop off from Bama/Clemson/tOSU). As BK has stated numerous times “We have to shop down a different aisle than the other CFP contenders”. Not saying they can’t win...they can & have...but I think this is their ceiling. They can get some elite 4 & 5 stars who embrace what ND is all about and understand the 4 for 40 advantage. But they can fill their roster with those elite recruits the way Bama/CLemson/tOSU does on a yearly basis.

I know that’s non-negotiable from ND’s administration but it’s also non-negotiable that they can realistically win a national title with one hand behind their back. When you see Bama line up on Jan 1, ask yourself how many of their skill players on both sides of the ball would truly consider ND. Then ask yourself if they could even qualify. Most couldn’t.

Have ND's academic standards for athletes become more demanding since the Holtz era? I don't think so. It is not the case that tons of 5* players want to come to ND but keep getting turned away by admissions. Most of them apparently don't want to play at ND, at least not right now. If Urban Meyer or whomever was the coach, they would come here, just as they did when Holtz was the coach.

 

[Irishize]

Have ND's academic standards for athletes become more demanding since the Holtz era? I don't think so. It is not the case that tons of 5* players want to come to ND but keep getting turned away by admissions. Most of them apparently don't want to play at ND, at least not right now. If Urban Meyer or whomever was the coach, they would come here, just as they did when Holtz was the coach.

I never said anything about that. ND had an advantage of national exposure that todays super conferences didn’t enjoy until they started signing huge TV deals. Meanwhile, ND had become a punchline under Davie, then Willingham & finally Weis. Had one of the coaches maintained or revived ND’s success under Holtz overt that time, they could’ve possibly kept up. Not being relevant to HS kids during that time buried ND deeper.

You make my point with Holtz. He inherited a dumpster fire but still had talent b/c/ ND recruited itself back then. ND initially made some academic exceptions (incl 2 prop-48 athletes) b/c they knew the football program had sunk that low. Holtz also had one of the best Recruiting Coordinators in the nation in Vinny Cerrato. His last class was what fueled the 1993 team. Downhill ever since.

The reason Meyer, Saban, Stoops, etc never came to ND was b/c they knew they couldn’t recruit all the studs they need to win NCs. That’s why Meyer chose UF over ND (plus his wife reportedly hated South Bend). Stoops asked for five academic exceptions when he interviewed for the job after Weis was fired. ND refused...interview over. Saban left Sparty b/c he wanted to coach a southern school that was easier geographically to recruit the best talent in the nation...Deep South/Texas so when LSU canned DiNardo, Saban jumped at the job and won a natty there in a similar time frame it took him to get to 9-2 at East Lansing.

So you’re right about the players going where the best coach is all things being equal...but the true NC worthy coaches know better than to take on the ND gig due to academic restrictions & geography. Can’t have one w/o the other.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Have ND's academic standards for athletes become more demanding since the Holtz era? I don't think so. It is not the case that tons of 5* players want to come to ND but keep getting turned away by admissions. Most of them apparently don't want to play at ND, at least not right now. If Urban Meyer or whomever was the coach, they would come here, just as they did when Holtz was the coach.

Malloy, Beauchamp and Wadsworth tightened everything up and ran Holtz off. No more Bettis, Zorich, Watters, Ismael, Young types. Randy freaking Moss was onboard until the school said nope. We were getting the badasses then until it made the three dipshits mentioned above 'uncomfortable'.

They decided that they wanted to 'Stanfordize' the football team. Tom Lemming at the time said that ND would have the smartest 6-5 football in the country going forward. And that's just what they got for decades.
They also decided that they didn't want a great, popular coach that the best kids in the country would want to play for(kind of important when you've neutered the other aspects of the program) and only wanted coaches they were comfortable with and could keep under their thumb.
Ultimately, the Notre Dame academia got what they wanted: they destroyed the entity that made them world famous. The one thing that everybody knows and loves about Notre Dame.

And that's why they are no longer a big boy and get bitch slapped by the big boys in big games. Remember, they did this to themselves on purpose to destroy what we all love.

 

[Irishize]

Trask was 26/40 for 408 yards (10.2 yds/att) and 3 TD's with a 91.8 QBR. If Book plays like that it'll be a competitive game just like Florida gave Bama.

But, my guess will be Book doesn't put together anything even resembling that and we get housed.

He attempted only two passes longer than 20 yds on Saturday. He went 0-2 in those attempts. That’s inexcusable unless you’re a military academy. As Tim O’Malley of II said, “He needs to at least be 0-10 in passes of 20 yds or more”. In other words....AT LEAST TRY

 

[Free Manera]

So you’re right about the players going where the best coach is all things being equal...but the true NC worthy coaches know better than to take on the ND gig due to academic restrictions & geography. Can’t have one w/o the other.

It is definitely true top coaches have spurned ND because they did not want to be hamstrung with recruiting.

The question should be, how does ND turn that around? The next time there is a Saban to be had, how does ND sell itself?

Money. Not just for the head coach, but for assistant coaches. That's it. No more aw shucks we can't spend that much on football. Throw absurd money that no one can match. That is ND's huge advantage over everyone else.

If you beat Florida's offer by 3 million, Urban would have bought his wife a helicopter and condo in Chicago and taken the job.

 

[WilliamWallace]

I think we just move the Campus down to Nashville problem solved.

 

[NDFAN420]

Have ND's academic standards for athletes become more demanding since the Holtz era? I don't think so. It is not the case that tons of 5* players want to come to ND but keep getting turned away by admissions. Most of them apparently don't want to play at ND, at least not right now. If Urban Meyer or whomever was the coach, they would come here, just as they did when Holtz was the coach.

Holtz got guys Kelly could never get in, Rice, Zorich, and (correct me if i'm wrong) Rocket. This team with those three guys...?

Stoops with 3 exemptions/yr wins at least 1 Championship.

ND's holier than thou stance is a product of the football team's historical success. Time to give back.

 

[Irishize]

They also mentioned the dreaded "ceiling." And said ND is farther away from the top 3 than they were in 2012. Just overall depressing to be honest. I think we all subconsciously think this but it is now spoken into existence.

I haven‘t finished listening but it’s not like they’re being negative towards the team...just objectively realistic which is where they were not from the UNC game through last Saturday. The carriage has turned back into a pumpkin. Now ND has to deal with it.

 

[Irishize]

Holtz got guys Kelly could never get in, Rice, Zorich, and (correct me if i'm wrong) Rocket. This team with those three guys...?

Rocket was never an issue. Rice & another players (forget his name but he ended up having a career ending injury) were Prop-48s and both ended up being ND grads. Zorich needed help and he, too; graduated ND and went on to get his law degree.

 

[NDFAN420]

Malloy, Beauchamp and Wadsworth tightened everything up and ran Holtz off. No more Bettis, Zorich, Watters, Ismael, Young types. Randy freaking Moss was onboard until the school said nope. We were getting the badasses then until it made the three dipshits mentioned above 'uncomfortable'.

They decided that they wanted to 'Stanfordize' the football team. Tom Lemming at the time said that ND would have the smartest 6-5 football in the country going forward. And that's just what they got for decades.
They also decided that they didn't want a great, popular coach that the best kids in the country would want to play for(kind of important when you've neutered the other aspects of the program) and only wanted coaches they were comfortable with and could keep under their thumb.
Ultimately, the Notre Dame academia got what they wanted: they destroyed the entity that made them world famous. The one thing that everybody knows and loves about Notre Dame.

And that's why they are no longer a big boy and get bitch slapped by the big boys in big games. Remember, they did this to themselves on purpose to destroy what we all love.

I remember living through this and being very sad. The spectacle of Urban Meyer turning us down the way he did really made me understand the reality of ND football at the time and moving forward.

 

[Sea Turtle]

I never said anything about that. ND had an advantage of national exposure that todays super conferences didn’t enjoy until they started signing huge TV deals. Meanwhile, ND had become a punchline under Davie, then Willingham & finally Weis. Had one of the coaches maintained or revived ND’s success under Holtz overt that time, they could’ve possibly kept up. Not being relevant to HS kids during that time buried ND deeper.

You make my point with Holtz. He inherited a dumpster fire but still had talent b/c/ ND recruited itself back then. ND initially made some academic exceptions (incl 2 prop-48 athletes) b/c they knew the football program had sunk that low. Holtz also had one of the best Recruiting Coordinators in the nation in Vinny Cerrato. His last class was what fueled the 1993 team. Downhill ever since.

The reason Meyer, Saban, Stoops, etc never came to ND was b/c they knew they couldn’t recruit all the studs they need to win NCs. That’s why Meyer chose UF over ND (plus his wife reportedly hated South Bend). Stoops asked for five academic exceptions when he interviewed for the job after Weis was fired. ND refused...interview over. Saban left Sparty b/c he wanted to coach a southern school that was easier geographically to recruit the best talent in the nation...Deep South/Texas so when LSU canned DiNardo, Saban jumped at the job and won a natty there in a similar time frame it took him to get to 9-2 at East Lansing.

So you’re right about the players going where the best coach is all things being equal...but the true NC worthy coaches know better than to take on the ND gig due to academic restrictions & geography. Can’t have one w/o the other.

Again, ND screwed itself. I didn't even mention that . You don't turn down Bob Stoops. You make it work. There is nothing wrong with making five exemptions a year for the program that built your freaking university. And truth be told, he would have settled for three.

How many times have ND alums recieved letters asking for donations to sponsor poor african or south american kids to attend ND who ordinarily wouldn't get the chance? Guess they don't want to do it for american football players.

 

[Irishize]

It is definitely true top coaches have spurned ND because they did not want to be hamstrung with recruiting.

The question should be, how does ND turn that around? The next time there is a Saban to be had, how does ND sell itself?

Money. Not just for the head coach, but for assistant coaches. That's it. No more aw shucks we can't spend that much on football. Throw absurd money that no one can match. That is ND's huge advantage over everyone else.

If you beat Florida's offer by 3 million, Urban would have bought his wife a helicopter and condo in Chicago and taken the job.

You can’t think that way. You have to be a good evaluator of coaching talent and get them before the Bamas/Clemsons/OUs/tOSUs of the world are after him. You can’t wait until Nick Saban is the greatest HC of all time. You have to get him when he’s climbing up the ladder like he was at Michigan St. Otherwise, they have leverage & much better options.

They probably get Meyer if Florida hadn’t fired Zook before ND fired Willingham. He had two options and he also had experience w/ the frustration of recruiting to South Bend, Indiana w/ academic restrictions and yet to be successful program. Now he’s a Hall-of-Fame coach.

 

[Irishize]

Again, ND screwed itself. I didn't even mention that . You don't turn down Bob Stoops. You make it work. There is nothing wrong with making five exemptions a year for the program that built your freaking university. And truth be told, he would have settled for three.

How many times have ND alums recieved letters asking for donations to sponsor poor african or south american kids to attend ND who ordinarily wouldn't get the chance? Guess they don't want to do it for american football players.

The person who told me this may have actually said the number was three...I can’t remember the exact number...just that it was a deal breaker.

 

[Free Manera]

Again, ND screwed itself. I didn't even mention that . You don't turn down Bob Stoops. You make it work. There is nothing wrong with making five exemptions a year for the program that built your freaking university. And truth be told, he would have settled for three.

How many times have ND alums recieved letters asking for donations to sponsor poor african or south american kids to attend ND who ordinarily wouldn't get the chance? Guess they don't want to do it for american football players.

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[Free Manera]

You can’t think that way. You have to be a good evaluator of coaching talent and get them before the Bamas/Clemsons/OUs/tOSUs of the world are after him. You can’t wait until Nick Saban is the greatest HC of all time. You have to get him when he’s climbing up the ladder like he was at Michigan St. Otherwise, they have leverage & much better options.

They probably get Meyer if Florida hadn’t fired Zook before ND fired Willingham. He had two options and he also had experience w/ the frustration of recruiting to South Bend, Indiana w/ academic restrictions and yet to be successful program. Now he’s a Hall-of-Fame coach.

Sorry I didn't mean pay Saban to lure him away from Bama. I meant pay him when LSU wanted him. Or lure him away from MSU. Agree, you can't lure a guy away from a destination job where he is already making 10 million.

 

[Irish#1]

Damn! You guys are depressing.

 

[IrishTusker]

Again, ND screwed itself. I didn't even mention that . You don't turn down Bob Stoops. You make it work. There is nothing wrong with making five exemptions a year for the program that built your freaking university. And truth be told, he would have settled for three.

How many times have ND alums recieved letters asking for donations to sponsor poor african or south american kids to attend ND who ordinarily wouldn't get the chance? Guess they don't want to do it for american football players.

They do do it for American football players (i.e., give scholarships). Do you think poor foreign students who go to ND (I'm pretty sure most who actually go aren't poor, but whatever) aren't academically qualified? I don't know what the standard is, but admissions should not be signing off on kids who they think are incapable of graduating.

 

[IrishTusker]

Holtz got guys Kelly could never get in, Rice, Zorich, and (correct me if i'm wrong) Rocket. This team with those three guys...?

Stoops with 3 exemptions/yr wins at least 1 Championship.

ND's holier than thou stance is a product of the football team's historical success. Time to give back.

What happened in 2008 and 2013? Were HS football players just unusually smart those years?

 

[arahop]

What happened in 2008 and 2013? Were HS football players just unusually smart those years?

Monk Malloy started the tailspin and what we now know of as the "new" normal.

Let's be real 90 percent or more of the football players aren't getting in on academic merit alone.

Malloy is responsible for that.

Malloy sunk recruiting and that new paradigm still hurts the program today IMO

 

[philipm31]

That's why I admire and respect what Alabama did. They were behind the times and we're a has been program.
So they went out and went big game hunting and got the best head coach that was out there. And they didn't take no for an answer. They understood how important that football is to the identity of the university and how much money it brings in.
This coach is also Catholic and would have crawled on broken glass to coach Notre Dame but ND was too busy hiring coaching legends like Bod Davie, George O'Leary, Tyrone Willingham and Charlie Weis.
Not pursuing Nick Saban, coming back from meeting with Urban Meyer with 'nothing but our dicks in hands', as one ND official put it, are quarter of a century mistakes that you just can't make. The university at least cares somewhat about the football program now but it will never be what it should be and can be.

How do we beat Alabama? By the University treating the football program like the entity that made the university world famous and not like some necessary evil that the university has to put up with.

There was literally zero interest on Saban's part to coach ND. He was coming from the pros, from coaching in the shadow of Shula to replace his son ironically, at Alabama. Bama was in sorrrrrrrrrrrrry shape after Bear left with hires like Perkins, Dubose and Mike Shula bookending Stallings.

 

[philipm31]

Monk Malloy started the tailspin and what we now know of as the "new" normal.

Let's be real 90 percent or more of the football players aren't getting in on academic merit alone.

Malloy is responsible for that.

Malloy sunk recruiting and that new paradigm still hurts the program today IMO

LOL what? Literally no athlete gets in ANYWHERE on academic merit alone. What are you even saying? That is precisely why you have academic and athletic scholarships lol.

 

[Sea Turtle]

There was literally zero interest on Saban's part to coach ND. He was coming from the pros, from coaching in the shadow of Shula to replace his son ironically, at Alabama. Bama was in sorrrrrrrrrrrrry shape after Bear left with hires like Perkins, Dubose and Mike Shula bookending Stallings.

Before and during MSU he had told family and friends that he would 'crawl on broken glass' to coach Notre Dame.
He certainly wasn't wanting to crawl on broken glass to coach at Alabama. He told them no at least two times before finally relenting when the wouldn't take no for an answer.

All Meyer and Stoops wanted was three measley exceptions to be put on a probationary period each year. That's all. And ND wouldn't even budge on that. Fucking ridiculous

 

[Sea Turtle]

What happened in 2008 and 2013? Were HS football players just unusually smart those years?

I assume you mean 2018? What happened was ND got skull fucked by the big boys at the end of the year, as usual since Monks Notre Dame.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

Before and during MSU he had told family and friends that he would 'crawl on broken glass' to coach Notre Dame.
He certainly wasn't wanting to crawl on broken glass to coach at Alabama. He told them no at least two times before finally relenting when the wouldn't take no for an answer.

All Meyer and Stoops wanted was three measley exceptions to be put on a probationary period each year. That's all. And ND wouldn't even budge on that. Fucking ridiculous

Yeah, but would ND have wanted him before and during MSU? Hindsight is always 2020, but I don't think anybody would have pegged him to be one of the best of all time when he was at MSU.

 

[Sea Turtle]

LOL what? Literally no athlete gets in ANYWHERE on academic merit alone. What are you even saying? That is precisely why you have academic and athletic scholarships lol.

He's saying that Monk started the 'we want our football program to be like Vanderbilt and Stanford instead of being Notre Dame'.

 

[NDRock]

I assume you mean 2018? What happened was ND got skull fucked by the big boys at the end of the year, as usual since Monks Notre Dame.

Nah, he’s talking about recruiting. We finished #2 in 2008 and #5 in 2013.