Good Article...John Saunders

jiggafini19

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I was watching the Sports Reporters that morning and saw Saunders say that.

I wanted to post something, but it wasn't worth it. I posted the story about Montana's "Pass Right" Quinn to Fasano play.

Saunders comments made me very angry. Reverse discrmination exists in the sports media (Stephen A. Jackson, Jason Witlock, etc, etc, etc). Saunders made those remarks with his own agenda in mind. Funny how most of the people in the media that carry a cross for Barry Bonds all have something in common. There are those who even think it would be fine if Bonds passed Ruth and it would be okay if he didn't pass Aaron. To sum up in one word, bigots.

And I'll tell it like it is. Especially listening to people say that ND firing TW was racially motivated. Well, two can play at that game folks....

When will people learn that it is about winning and losing and the only color that matters is green?
 
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irishjay

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"So what? I fired the black man. Oooh. 'Black man' can never be fired. Black people never do anything wrong."

I like this quote. Whites and Blacks are equal and if they dont win, color doesnt matter.
 

guff

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Instead of burying this dead horse people like Saunders continue to beat it.

It is obvious that the "leaders" of the black community failed to pay attention during fairy tale time in kindergarten. If they had they would have heard the story about the boy who cried wolf. Crying racism everytime a black person gets fired, arrested, shot, flooded or otherwise for a legitimate reason only detracts from attention the real instances of racism receive.

For those that don't know the author of the article has a morning drive sports radio show on Fox Sports Radio. Tune in when stuck in traffic.
 
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WeisGuy05

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The article rasied nice ideas. Why would Kevin White and the administration hire Willingham if color mattered. I remember seeing the article in SI with Stovall on the front after we beat MSU on Battle's TD score. In that article about us going 4-0 Kevin White states "Thank god Ty is here." This whole issue is quite humerous.
 
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weisfaninmass

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WeisGuy05 said:
The article rasied nice ideas. Why would Kevin White and the administration hire Willingham if color mattered. I remember seeing the article in SI with Stovall on the front after we beat MSU on Battle's TD score. In that article about us going 4-0 Kevin White states "Thank god Ty is here." This whole issue is quite humerous.

Surprised that idiots like that (Saunders) aren't using the fact that Kevin's last name is WHITE. Makes as much sense.
 
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WeisGuy05

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All of this is totally going to discourage future hirings of African American coaches because the school is damned if you do fire the AA coach. Look at Charlie Strong the DC of Florida, he deserves a shot at being HC somewhere but all of this ND and Ty crap is going to make schools think "well if things go bad and we do have to fire the AA coach we will be damned." One more thing, this would not be an issue if this happened somewhere else....it is because we are ND.
 

jiggafini19

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WeisGuy05 said:
All of this is totally going to discourage future hirings of African American coaches because the school is damned if you do fire the AA coach.

Bingo.

All this does is set the cause back. And deep down, ADs know it to be true. If I'm an AD sitting behind my desk, do I want to risk it? What if the guy fails? Then what?

Again, the only thing that matters (right or wrong) is winning and losing. The only color that gets looked at is green.

ND fired Davie after giving him an EXTENSION. What was his excuse?
 
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weisfaninmass

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WeisGuy05 said:
All of this is totally going to discourage future hirings of African American coaches because the school is damned if you do fire the AA coach. Look at Charlie Strong the DC of Florida, he deserves a shot at being HC somewhere but all of this ND and Ty crap is going to make schools think "well if things go bad and we do have to fire the AA coach we will be damned." One more thing, this would not be an issue if this happened somewhere else....it is because we are ND.

Really agree with this. The ironic thing is that the person affected (TY) has handled the firing as classy as you could while those that weren't affected (The Media) continue to make an issue of it. This is wrong.

Charlie Strong is as good as it gets. I think alot of his future head coaching aspirations will ride not on the success he has at Florida, but rather the success Sylvester Croom has at Miss St. This is unfortunate.
 

jiggafini19

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Read this: RACE OR INCOMPETENCE? YOU DECIDE...

Is Willingham For Real?
Dave Follett

Tyrone Willingham is the biggest coaching fraud in college football.” That statement was made to me this past week and it got me thinking, really thinking. Does Tyrone Willingham actually coach college football or is he a manager of a staff of coaches and gets paid a huge sum of money to hold the title of “head football coach?”
Watch Willingham very closely throughout the course of a football game. He doesn’t call the plays on offense or defense. He doesn’t send in the substitutions or come up with personnel packages. He works the referees, decides whether to go for it on fourth down and of course there is the famous 1 finger raised in the air after a touchdown letting the whole world know that yes indeed, we are going for one!

Even this past weekend versus Notre Dame when his Huskies were trailing 29-3, there was Willingham making his executive decision to go for one while the whole world was watching. No kidding Ty, we get it. You made the decision to go for one when your team was trailing by 20 points. You can put your finger down now.

I asked a former player of Willingham’s at Notre Dame what kind of coach he was during the game. His response was, “well, as most teams, the offensive and defensive coordinators called the play which incorporates personnel packages, position coaches substitutions. But he made the call on whether to go for it on fourth-and-2, one point or two point conversions, accept or decline the penalty, etc.”

Then I wondered what type of coach was Willingham during practices. The former player’s response was, “he mainly let his assistants do their job, but he walked around to every position, every day just to critique and chime in when he felt needed.”

What is that? He is the head football coach at a major university and he would “critique and chime in when he felt needed?”

Isn’t that always needed? Shouldn’t he be teaching these kid’s fundamentals and working with them daily.

I asked this former player the following question, did he ever get in there and actually SHOW you how to do something or did he leave that to the assistants?

The player’s response, “I mean, not out there running around, but verbally when the player came off the field with depth rotations he would maybe pull them aside and talk to them...”

Is there any doubt why Tyrone Willingham-coached teams don’t sustain success? At Stanford his teams were regularly up and down. He won the Pac-10 in 1999 with an 8-3 record and took his team to the Rose Bowl before losing to Wisconsin 17-9. In 2000, Stanford finished 5-6 and failed to qualify for a bowl game.

In 2002 at Notre Dame, Willingham led the Irish to its first ever 10-win season under a first year head coach, only to lose heavily in the Gator Bowl to North Carolina State, 28-6.

A year later, Notre Dame went 5-6 and missed qualifying for a bowl game.

My perception of Willingham has been that he was a great man with the highest integrity, but maybe he was just an average football coach.

That idea quickly changed over the weekend prior to Willingham’s matchup with ND on Saturday. Willingham sat down with ABC’s John Saunders and was asked to speculate if race may have played a role in his dismissal at Notre Dame.

Why now Tyrone? Why not before? Why not the hundred other times you’ve been asked that question have you suggested that race might have played a part?

When Willingham left Notre Dame (notice I haven’t used the word fired), I held a level of respect for him and the way he handled it. He was all class in his press conferences and interviews. It was time for Notre Dame and Tyrone Willingham to part ways.

Fast forward nine months and another coach is leading the Irish and doing things with these kids that Willingham could never have accomplished. The national media is covering the game and it looks an awful lot like someone got the bright idea that now would be the perfect time for Willingham to have his revenge on Notre Dame. We all knew it wasn’t going to happen on the field, so why not do it in an interview. Not a whole lot of class or integrity shown there either.

Now about the so-called firing of Willingham. This is just a false statement that the likes of John Saunders, Michael Wilbon and Mark May are clinging on to. Willingham had a three-year contract with an option for three more. He knew this from the very beginning.

At the end of that three-year term, Notre Dame could buy out those final three years or decide to keep Willingham for three more. Notre Dame made the only choice they could and showed tremendous courage in doing so. They knew the immense heat they were going to take for firing their first African-American head football coach before a term that both Bob Davie and Gerry Faust were given.

In Willingham’s final 25 games at Notre Dame, an 11-14 record by the way, the Irish lost by 22 or more points eight times. On five of those occasions the Irish were crushed by at least 31 points.

Bob Davie and Gerry Faust lost by 22 points or more three times each. In other words, they combined for six such losses in 10 seasons compared to Willingham’s eight in just three years.

Let’s not feel too sorry for Willingham. His buyout from his Notre Dame contract has been reported to be in the millions. That is after making $1.5 million a year for three years at ND. Now he is reportedly making that same figure per year at Washington.

Willingham now finds himself in the perfect situation in Seattle. He has the national media on his side (for now) and making bold predictions of future BCS appearances. He is coaching for a program that has been hit with NCAA sanctions and is coming off their worst season ever with a 1-10 record.

He has nowhere to go but up at Washington. If he wins three games this season he will have tripled their win total from a year ago. For the first time as a head coach he can recruit with out any restrictive admission standards to adhere to. He will succeed at Washington, if you call seven or eight wins a year successful.

Over his 11-year head coaching career, Willingham is averaging 5.9 wins a year. Expect that number to go up at Washington soon, but just don’t expect a lot of Pac-10 titles and certainly don’t expect it year in and year out.

He’s just not that type of coach.
 
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TomFoolery

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This is really interesting- tons of coaches "let their assistants" run the practices- this isn't new or unusual. Unfortunately for Ty, he didn't win enough ball games for some. Hence, now he is marked an average or mediocre coach. If that's the reality, there are many incompetent mediocre coaches out there, regardless of nationality. Ty is in Washington, let him do his thing there and wish him the best. He never scarred the university in anyway negatively, nor did he embarrass the administration. It's funny that not many have positive things to say to a man who took a job (as a second choice) under intense scrutiny & criticism. Yet, he is a class guy who has his focus in life beyond just coaching football games, but also installing morality, integrity and responsibility.
 
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Rip Rap

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TomFoolery said:
Yet, he is a class guy who has his focus in life beyond just coaching football games, but also installing morality, integrity and responsibility.

He wasn't paid to coach. He was paid to win. And he didn't. Just like Anderson, Brennan, Kuharich, Faust, and Davie. If we also bashed on Anderson or Kuharich would it make you happier?
 
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TomFoolery

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No need

No need

No- absolutely not- bashing on anyone isn't cool....."until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes............."
 

BigIrish

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TomFoolery said:
No- absolutely not- bashing on anyone isn't cool....."until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes............."

sheesh...that's taking the high road a little bit, isn't it? this is a (predominantly) football message board and we're talking about a failed former coach who has recently fanned the flames of controversy with a interview that instantly cheapened his "holier than thou" persona before taking the field to play the irish.

i'd like to walk a mile in his shoes. they're probably lined with cash, much like his pockets, and chances are pretty good that the mile would be spent walking 18 holes on a beautiful golf course in washington state.
 

Irish Envy

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TomFoolery said:
No- absolutely not- bashing on anyone isn't cool....."until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes............."

I guess.

However, as diehard fans, our job is to turn over every stone and discuss what we find. We turned over the Willingham stone and it wasn't the Blarney... all we found was a big slug.
 

grantland

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Here is what drives me crazy about the entire Ty episode.

He has received so much friggin' credit for being a moral, upstanding man who graduates his kids and has no problems off the field, etc., etc.

The two major college teams he has coached (prior to the current job) are ND and Stanford. These two schools' ADMINISTRATIONs are primarily responsible for ensuring that the kids who are accepted into the school fit the mold of a person who will contribute to the off-field mission of the schools.

To be sure, the schools make some mistakes and accept kids who perform poorly in school, make unacceptable mistakes off the field, etc. In addition, the schools may have peaks and valleys in their respective off-field missions. We all know this is true at ND. However, by and large the kids who are accepted BY THE ACADEMIC OFFICE have been accepted based on their ability to succeed ON and OFF of the field.

Surely the schools use the same criteria in determining whom to hire as a football coach.

Now, some coaches may be better suited to lead kids on the field and some may be better to lead off of the field. Ty was certainly the latter and not the former. But it it is not as if Ty went to Michigan or USC and turned their off field reputation from what it is to schools who pride themselves on contributing to the furtherance of great kids off of the field.

The point is, and all coaches who accept the ND job have to understand this, ND fans as well as the administration, expect excellence from all of their students, coaches, teams,etc. ON and OFF of the field.

As has been stated frequently through the Ty episode, the coach's primary responsibility is on the field. Ty failed miserably in his most basic job description.

Finally and my main point, I think he was given way too much credit for "graduating his players" and "keeping the team out of trouble off of the field." I am interested to see what "Ty's" graduation rate will be at Washington.
 

jiggafini19

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Graduating players has been Bobby Knight's defense for years.

Funny, that has become a secondary priority to winning and losing. Usually comes up when a coach has been unsuccessful.
 
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cdough77

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When are John Saunders, Michael Wilbon and the rest of the ESPN crew going to get off the soap box about ND and the race issue? Lets face it, ND showed absolutley no signs of improvement what so ever during Willingham's three years there. By year three we were still watching twelve men on the field penalties, clock mismanagement, poor play calling, blowout losses and passive recruting efforts. His rose bowl appearence in 1999 was simply a matter of the blind squirel finding the acorn once every so often. It happens in every conference from time to time (ie Illinois in the Sugar bowl, Miss St. winning the SEC west a few years back and MD winning the ACC. Ty had poor assistant coaches, who were in way over their heads at a big time college program. Does anyone ever remember any of his assistants being sought after for head coaching positions at any other schools. NO! What the media needs to realize is that Ty's firing had more to do with dollars more than it had to do with race. College football is just like the business world, if you don't produce when the stakes are high you are not going to be around very long.
 

jiggafini19

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After last night, it certainly appears this little Human Resources move may have been the right one.

Put it to bed. Ty is gone, ND beat UW, the future is so bright we gotta wear shades.
 
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