First post: some thoughts

[revolver]

1. Michigan is far more athletic than we are. We are still years away from being where they, osu, texas usc, ect. are. I have no idea how we have beaten them 2 straight. 2. You have to schedule yourself into championship contention. You just dont play penn st., mich, mich. st. all in a row. And, by the way, opening up under the lights at ga. tech. How can they possibly be expected to be up for that many games? You don't see the teams I mentioned in topic one do this. You schedule breathers in between. 3. You don't put all of your recruiting eggs in one basket, particularly the game after your home opener. We just lost some big defensive recruits today. 4. We have no one on offensive that can hurt you AFTER they get the ball. 5. Their front 4 destroyed our o-line. 6.We may lose 3 games this year excluding a bowl game. I'm not venting or just being negative and I think we'll eventually get where we want to get. It just is what it is. 1977- The year of Notre Dame and the Dallas Cowboys. What could be better?

 

[irish4life99]

I thought it would be hard for us to run the table anyway. I was afraid of this game, but I had now idea it would be this bad. We could still have a good season. We'll be back!

 

[marv81s]

wouldn't say michigan is more athletic. ND just had mental error after mental error today. They shot themselves in the foot over and over again, and probably because they were mentally fatigued, but also because they took Michigan too lightly. Least it looked that way. H For a team that said they were expecting a fight, they certainly didn't look like a team that was ready for a fight. Dropped passes, stupid penalties, just one mental breakdown after another.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

At the moment, Michigan might be a bit more athletic... but I don't think that was responsible for the loss. What was responsible was what I'd like to call, "The Universal Fuck-Up". Almost everyone played a terrible game. Brady did. The O-line didn't play too well.. and when they did, the receivers weren't open, or they were and they dropped their pass. The defense gave up big plays, which is unfortunate because they actually didn't play as bad a game as the score indicates. The offense couldn't give our defense a break and you could see them getting more and more tired, hence Mike Hart's 'improvement' throughout the game.

 

[ACamp1900]

every legit team in the country has had a good understanding of your second point for DECADES... but not ND... even when teams like Texas put OSU on the sch. then don't play Penn St. the week before and so on and so on...not saying ND should drop opponnets.. but I have been screaming FOR YEARS to better spread out the big games...

 

[isotopes]

1) I think athletically we're about the same it just came down to exectuion today. The thing that hurts most is knowing you're down and watching Samardzija dog routes. No one gave it all today, whereas Michigan was willing to give whatever it took.

2) Scheduling for this year was terrible, i think our bigger problem then playing everyone at once, is not playing anyone else until USC. Right now we have to hope for teams to lose cuz a big win vs. Army won't move us up at all

3) Recruiting is make or break, the kids can only make it for a few games as is and you dont wanna push them to Navy when you are an expected NC contender

 

[irish4life99]

Yea, the scheduling makes it hard to make a run. If you think about it a 2-1 start to this season is not that horrible. Get past MSU and we have a good chance going to USC 10-1. That sounds pretty good to me.

 

[GREENJERSEYS'07]

they took Michigan too lightly.

should have statrted out the season pre-ranked #9 and #6 going into the michigan game.
maybe I'm wrong,but that's the way I feel.I don't know maybe it would have or wouldn't have made a difference...too late now.

maybe now we'll be #9 and #6 going into usc

we could go the rest of the season without a loss.I hear a lot of "drop" another game along the way.Maybe this game was the drop?
There is no reason why our offensive line can't do a better job then they did today and something sure got the defense going better in the second half.
Michigan was prepared for this game all the way down to the punting.I won't second guess the coaching staff,but they can only do so much to get the players ready mentaly.
this is going to sound silly,but it's almost like "we are down 14-0...wait a minute,you can't do that to us"and then everyone is lost and the other team keeps pounding
Penn state was a joke last week and no one knows for sure about georgia tech.Don't use the scheduling for a scapegoat.They just sound better then UAB and north texas.
There's going to be another pattern this year and it needs to get corrected

 

[revolver]

more thoughts

more thoughts

I just think that they have better athletes. Look, our defense can be summed up in three words. Small, slow, and slow. Their offense made it look even slower. But what was even more damning was how much faster and more physical their defense was than our offense. Our receivers can't create separation. We have no third receiver, which is also hurting the offense . Walker gets chased down from behind by dt's. Our interior o-line simply could not handle their dt's(actually, they've been terrible all year). I know you dont want recruits up for a bunch of cupcakes but if this staff was going to have one game be such a huge recruiting day, then they should have made it the penn st. game. It's the more winnable game plus the atmosphere was great due to the home opener, ect. Now we can probably say goodbye to Williams, Barksdale, Donald, minimum. Hope i'm wrong. Back to the scheduling , I still don't know what our ad's, coaching staffs are thinking when they make them out. The 1992-95 Dallas cowboys were the most powerful team ever to stand on a football field

 

[tommy]

well im heart broken but we werent good enough the season is a wash ill watch every game like i did the first 2 and we will get better and we will win the natty maybe not next year or the year after that but i sure as hel aint going to start likeing some one else nd is special for all the things you dont see on tv is it me or does nbc show way more comercials then every one else

 

[tgolden]

I just think that they have better athletes. Look, our defense can be summed up in three words. Small, slow, and slow. Their offense made it look even slower. But what was even more damning was how much faster and more physical their defense was than our offense. Our receivers can't create separation. We have no third receiver, which is also hurting the offense . Walker gets chased down from behind by dt's. Our interior o-line simply could not handle their dt's(actually, they've been terrible all year). I know you dont want recruits up for a bunch of cupcakes but if this staff was going to have one game be such a huge recruiting day, then they should have made it the penn st. game. It's the more winnable game plus the atmosphere was great due to the home opener, ect. Now we can probably say goodbye to Williams, Barksdale, Donald, minimum. Hope i'm wrong. Back to the scheduling , I still don't know what our ad's, coaching staffs are thinking when they make them out. The 1992-95 Dallas cowboys were the most powerful team ever to stand on a football field

I wouldn't say we are slow. and not that this made that much of a difference, but as far as receivers creating separation, Rhema was being held nearly every time he ran a route. I didn't really notice with Jeff and Grimes, I just know that nearly every time I watched, Rhema was being held.

I think some of the recruits will still be ok. Who knows, maybe they'll end up like Darius. He was there for the 0-37 game vs. FSU on his official, and he really noticed how the students stuck around and cheered for the team after the game. With a few exceptions, that happened today.

 

[penguin]

any serious injuries ?

any serious injuries ?

I have to agree with much of what has been said already.
With as many Seniors and Juniors as we have, you'd think we would all be on the same page, but there didn't seem to be a very vital chemistry going on within the team. I thought that about the Offense, especially. Quinn made me uneasy today.

I want to see us execute a sound basic game. From the coach's comments after last week, it sound like he just wanted to "tweak" some aspects of play, but I didn't think we were where we needed to be - especially with the team ranked so high. I think something must have been remiss in game preparations. It had to play on the subconscious of the players to be so well-regarded. Now they have had a wake-up call and will learn that their ranking has to be earned. SO- back to basics.

I wouldn't look too far ahead, either. Playing MSU at their place is a challenge. They won't be easy.

I do hope for wins the rest of the way and a bowl berth. But I want to see us fight and keep things close in every game, even if we lose.

NOW - my Question. Is Ndukwe all right ? Is he hurt ? What about Travis Thomas ? I didn't see him in the second half. If no one was seriosly injured, that's one positive we can be thankful for.

 

[penguin]

Re: NBC and commercials. No, I don't think they showed more, since whenever I switched to CBS during a commercial, they had one on, too. What did annoy me about NBC is that (especially in the 4th Qtr) they kept showing the MI sideline, when we were lined up to run a play. The camera needs to be focused on the field more !! A good thing is that they actually played the whole fight song through where I could hear it - during both of the last two home games! (Last year, I wrote them complaining about not getting to hear it.)

 

[irishwavend]

1977- The year of Notre Dame and the Dallas Cowboys. What could be better?

What could be better is the Earth opening up and swallowing the Dallas Cowboys along with Baltimore, Minnesota, Oakland, UF, UT (Tennessee), Texas, Ohio State, USC, & Steve Spurrier. Wow, what a terrific day that would be!

 

[revolver]

ha ha ha. ok irishwavend, so you hate the cowboys. But they are "the Notre Dame of the NFL" as Nick and Steve Sabol put it. About Rhema being held every play? He should have been jamming his thumbs/hands up under or over their facemasks. You'd be surprised how a few thumbs in the eye will stop that crap. Even if they call a penalty for it...the refs are now watching. You just can't be passive like the damn colts. Also, i've been hearing that the shark was dogging some routs in the second half. Dont know if it's true. Maybe he was just disgusted. But have you ever noticed that whenever anybody on our team catches a ball, they get tackled almost immediately? That goes more to the point about us being slow and not creating separation before or after the catch. Hopefully our overall speed on offense and deffense as well as size and mobility along the lines(and we could discuss the lines all day)will improve dramatically over the next couple of years.

 

[NDAlumSon]

But have you ever noticed that whenever anybody on our team catches a ball, they get tackled almost immediately? That goes more to the point about us being slow and not creating separation before or after the catch.

WRONG !
YAC (Yards after Catch) is a direct function of where the ball is delivered to a receiver.
Lead an open receiver properly and he will gain YAC.
Throw it behind him, even slightly, and YAC are the least of your worries.
See second play from scrimmage, for example.

 

[irishfan81]

We are not even close to a elite program we are still rebuilding we need 3 more top 3 recruiting classes before we run the tables get speed, better players, depth. Thanks for the horrible classes Losingham. We have to get the best out of our players we have right now.

 

[nshope]

WRONG !
YAC (Yards after Catch) is a direct function of where the ball is delivered to a receiver.
Lead an open receiver properly and he will gain YAC.
Throw it behind him, even slightly, and YAC are the least of your worries.
See second play from scrimmage, for example.

I agree with you about the YAC point that leading a receiver gives them the opportunity for more YAC, but come on...that pass hit Carlson RIGHT in the hands. YAC isn't a debate when the dude can't catch the ball. 2nd time this season he has blatantly dropped a pass. The other one was against GT where it hit his hands, hit a defender's hands, and they he caught it. Everyone was like...nice catch, but Carlson's hands are suspect at times.

 

[NDAlumSon]

I agree with you about the YAC point that leading a receiver gives them the opportunity for more YAC, but come on...that pass hit Carlson RIGHT in the hands. YAC isn't a debate when the dude can't catch the ball. 2nd time this season he has blatantly dropped a pass. The other one was against GT where it hit his hands, hit a defender's hands, and they he caught it. Everyone was like...nice catch, but Carlson's hands are suspect at times.

The receivers had the same off day that the quarterback had. No question.
It was a catchable throw.
It should have been caught.
But it was a "back-shoulder" pass which makes catching it that much more difficult
and decreases the opportunity for YAC, even if it is caught.

 

[nshope]

The receivers had the same off day that the quarterback had. No question.
It was a catchable throw.
It should have been caught.
But it was a "back-shoulder" pass which makes catching it that much more difficult
and decreases the opportunity for YAC, even if it is caught.

Agree with you there for sure. Sometimes this year it seems that our receivers are really kicking their own A**ES. Dropping catchable balls and not being able to make the big catches. I miss Stovall because he used to come up with some circus-type catches when they were sorely needed. And don't get me started on Fasano...sob, sob. Dude was a gamer.

 

[scooper]

Revolver makes a good point about athleticism. But I don't agree with the direction that argument is going. I think the problem with athleticism is up front. Their defensive front seven won this game. They overtook our O-line.

And our defensive front seven failed to overtake theirs.

There was the difference.

Our lack of athleticism isn't really with the backs. It's along the fronts.

 

[BigIrish]

i don't know if it was evident on tv, but at the game, i could see rhema running slow routes on several occasions. i could see him accelerate after the ball was already in the air.

now, my question is - if he had enough gas in the tank to visibly accelerate after the ball was in the air, why wasn't he running that route at 100% (read: separation) before the ball was in the air? he is, after all, the #1 or #2 target. he should be expecting the ball.

 

[domerfor life]

Guys I don't care how fast another team is. You can't turn the ball over 5 times. I will say that I think Michigan would have beat us anyway regardless. They played better overall, especially in the trenches. Our offense gave our defense, who despite the long pass was playing well, no help whatsoever. The defense got tired, because they were on the field the whole freaking day. Of course they're going to wear down. If you give any good team the ball on the 30 freaking yard line, of course they are going to score. This should have been a much closer game. Something like 24-21 or 27-21. We gift wrapped 14 points and set up another 10 with turnovers. Our offensive line is not good. They can't get a push up the middle and the left side (which is supposed to be our strength) is a big liability. Michigan's D-line is more athletic and it showed, but we played piss poor, dumbass football Saturday. I still can't believe it. I think we can still finish with 1-2 losses. We have to play smarter football. Judging by the first 3 games, that's going to be alot harder than we thought. I am very dejected, but yet optimistic about the remaining games. Oh yeah.....we have to stop scheduling these types of games early in the season. It was obvious Michigan was up for this game. It was also obvious, that we were not mentally and emotionally ready to play. We did not match their intensity. Yeah the pass to Carlson was not placed exactly right, but he should have caught it. It hit him in the hands. As for Rhema....for every spectacular catch there are at least two crucial drops. Teams are giving alot of attention to Shark, but he's not responding to being the focus of attention. He's invisible at times. Brady + Pressure = A very average quarterback. Brady + No pressure = No chance for other team to win. Which strategy do you think we will see from here on out? Until we prove we can handle it, expect to see more "blitz all day long" strategies. Michigan wasn't even worried about us running. They were just focused on putting pressure on Brady. They did it mostly with their front four.

 

[domerfor life]

Sorry about the long reply. I was too devasted to respond eariler. I didn't watch any football or highlights after that game. I guess it was bound to happen. I can take it if we give our best and it still isn't good enough (eg- USC game). Saturday was just a debacle in every imaginable way. It seemed like Michigan started every drive on their own 40.

 

[Pete]

Well, first I was at the game and it was insufferable. My family and I sat in the last row before the Michigan fans. Some were terrible, some were okay. But for the most part, they were all ignorant on the rules of football. My dad and I spent the better part of three quarters explaining things. Two got kicked out as well. And at the end of the game when a few ran up to yell things at us, we extended our hands and said they played an outstanding game, and wished them well in the future. They just stood there not knowing what to do. Anyway, I feel we lost this game before it even started when the players kept saying, We are not worried about Michigan, we are just worried about ourselves. Unless this game was an intersquad scrimmage, you better be worried about the other team.

 

[domerfor life]

Anyway, I feel we lost this game before it even started when the players kept saying, We are not worried about Michigan, we are just worried about ourselves. Unless this game was an intersquad scrimmage, you better be worried about the other team.

Yeah, I didn't like that at all. That approach worried me for good reason. Michigan had this game circled from Day 1 of spring camp. Charlie needs to understand that this "is" a big game. Who cares if we treat this game differently then the others. Navy is not a big game, UNC is not a big game. We did not match the intensity. It looks like they should have been worried about Michigan. All of that work on themselves didn't really pan out. They need to recover and win this week. I think all the hype has died now and there shouldn't be any talk of postseason awards for anybody. Let's just get back to playing solid, smart football.

 

[donnie hoss]

Michigan is not far more athletic than we are, just up front. Let's face the facts. The game is won or lost at the point of attack. Everyone talks about our lack of speed on both sides of the ball, but what we lack is an o-line that can controla front seven and d-line that can't stop the run or rush the qb without the blitz to help. The truth is, we will often have weaker d-lines than most of the top 5-10 defenses in country because we don't win the recruiting battles for the top athletic, game changing linemen. We are only able to go after about 20% of them at the start. I guess the point I am trying to make, look at the great defensive teams and you have a pass rush and small fast lb's. We put much of the blame on ourdb's. We need a pass rush and the rest will follow. I think Charlie will get the players we need and we will be great again in the near future. GO IRISH

 

[maison bleu]

Revolver makes a good point about athleticism. But I don't agree with the direction that argument is going. I think the problem with athleticism is up front. Their defensive front seven won this game. They overtook our O-line.

And our defensive front seven failed to overtake theirs.

There was the difference.

Our lack of athleticism isn't really with the backs. It's along the fronts.

I agree--the athleticism of the Michigan front 7 was the biggest disparity of the day. But I'd have to add that the lack of athleticism (in terms of speed) by the ND CBs contributed to Manningham's big day.

 

[domerfor life]

I agree--the athleticism of the Michigan front 7 was the biggest disparity of the day. But I'd have to add that the lack of athleticism (in terms of speed) by the ND CBs contributed to Manningham's big day.

I don't know if it was totally a speed problem. If you look at the 1st Manningham TD, Wooden almost dived out of bounds. He totally bit on the out route and then Manningham turned it up. That was poor technique more than anything else, not to mention no help from the safety. It was a well designed play by Michigan. Terrail Lambert just stinks....plain and simple. He's got speed, but he's apparently not ready for the big-time. You guys have a stout front 7. That's the best front 7 Michigan's had in a while.

 

[tommy]

yea speed wasnt a factor on alot of the tds the cb just got shook and it hurts my heart to admit it