ESPN Page 2 rips Quinn.

GoshenGipper

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Well, let me get on my :soapbox: and here goes my :twocents:.

There is so much bias in that article I don't even know where to start.

Ok, first off I guess we'll look at how she described their numbers,"Compare that to Smith's astonishing senior season -- 67 percent completion rate, 30 TDs and a mere five interceptions.""On the other side of it, Quinn's coach and his offensive system are already the most overrated traits of any prospect. I'm not trying to take anything away from Quinn, who put up the numbers to justify his being the No. 1 pick in April, but there were very few games in which his presence alone was responsible for the Irish's winning. You never got the feeling he won the game."

Which brings me to my next two points. She says "I'm not trying to take anything away from Quinn" a comment which was immediately proceeded and followed by these two comments, "Quinn's coach and his offensive system are already the most overrated traits of any prospect", and "but there were very few games in which his presence alone was responsible for the Irish's winning. You never got the feeling he won the game." That's just absolute crap. She must not have watched many ND games or she would've realised that Quinn was imperative to ND's success this season most notably against UCLA, MSU, and GT, but it wasn't just this season. He was also indispensable throughout his career at ND. Then she also wrote this, "Besides, Quinn's most defining win this season was a comeback against a bad Michigan State team. Notre Dame hasn't beaten a top-10 team since Charlie Weis arrived in South Bend.", wrong again, I give you the afore mentioned UCLA, and ND's road win last year against a Michigan team that was #3 at the time.

Then there was this exaggeration, "Meanwhile, there were at least half a dozen games in which Smith was the most powerful force on the field. Every Michigan game. The Penn State and Texas games this year. Iowa -- this year and last year." TS had only had one great play aginst PSU, and BQ had better numbers than TS did aginst PSU, and MSU. She then glorified TS for playing well against the two teams playing in the Alamo Bowl. One of which is an Iowa team that went 6-6 and 2-6 in the Big Ten and only qualified for a bowl becuse they get to count their win against 1AA Montana.

Finally, I don't care how much she harps on the height issue, trust me it matters. I'm only 6'1" and I have played a lot of different positions in football, both organized and pick-up(full speed tackle with no pads). One of the positions I've played quite a bit of is QB and it is difficult to throw over or aroud guys that range anywhere from 6'3" to 6'7" weighing well over 250lbs. sometimes as high as 350lbs. Yet these are only guys that played or play high school football, college football (some of which were even DTs at a BCS school), a former NFL DE, guys that play or played Semi-Pro, and some current and former military guys. I'm sure it is much harder when every one on the field is of NFL quality. So I don't want to hear any crap from a feminist friend of Jason Whitlock that also covered Michigan St. for six years and probably never played in a football game as hard as the pick-up games that myself or most of you play in!

:puke:
 
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PAdomer

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Just another ND hater. If anybody else agrees with that bs, Quinn won't be drafted before Smith in April. Only he will. Just a poor article all around, and this coming from someone who has a lot of respect for Troy Smith.
 
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ShivaIrish

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Just like in discussing player recruiting, one just has to remember this individual is writing for ESPN's Page 2. The proof will be in the pudding--no team is going to base their top picks in the draft on the fact that they love ND, or any other college team for that matter. If the writer was that good at talent analysis, wouldn't they be an NFL scout, or something like it?
 

bc525

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well I have to say that article is crap! It irked me to the point of spending 5 minutes of my time doing a little research on the author...Jemele Hill. Well let's just say that was all I needed to understand her angle! The stab she takes at BQ about the Maxwell strips her of her "Journalist" title and puts her right up there with an over paid, biased opinionist!

We all know BQ is headed for a great NFL career and big things following being a Notre Dame Man!

GO IRSH!
 

irish4ever

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They write this shit just to stir the pot in the ND nation. It's like Sportscenter on the tube ... tune it out!
 

nd1

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who cares what some writer from espn has to say. Did you expect them to say draft quinn first.I have no idea why you would because they hadn't promoted nd all year.
 

jiggafini19

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Don't post the link. Copy and paste the article.

This way their crap doesn't get more hits.
 

GoshenGipper

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By Jemele Hill
Page 2

Serious question: If Michael Vick was the No. 1 pick in the NFL draft, why can't Troy Smith be?

I'm talking strictly in terms of College Vick vs. College Smith. Don't say Vick is superior because of speed. Most human beings concede Vick could probably outrun a Concorde jet. But since when is that a requirement for an NFL quarterback?

Don't say the freak factor. This isn't a PlayStation game.

Don't say passing. Smith makes throws Vick can't make right now. Not to mention, Vick completed barely a little more than half of his passes his final year at Virginia Tech (54 percent) while throwing for 1,234 yards and eight touchdowns. Compare that to Smith's astonishing senior season -- 67 percent completion rate, 30 TDs and a mere five interceptions. Smith transitioned from running quarterback to accurate pocket passer. We're still waiting for Vick to make that transition.

Don't say decision making. Check the touchdown-to-interception ratio again. Smith, who is just now being considered a top-15 pick in the April draft, can read defenses better than past and present Vick.

Don't say body of work. Smith is 10-1 against ranked teams and is the only quarterback in Ohio State history to beat Michigan three consecutive times. Smith has never shrunk in a big game. Brady Quinn has (see: Michigan this year).

Don't say height, either. Depending on who you believe, Smith is either an inch taller or shorter than Vick (who is listed at an even 6 feet).

And for those who have issues with Smith's height, here is some trivia for you: Name the next quarterback selected after Vick in the 2001 draft. Give up? Answer: Drew Brees, who is barely 6 feet tall.

Yes, the same Brees who is having the finest season of any NFL quarterback. The same Brees who dissected the Cowboys on Sunday night. The same Brees who has now successfully piloted two franchises (San Diego and New Orleans).

Coming out of Purdue, Brees had superb numbers but slipped to the second round because he was a shrimp by NFL standards and supposedly not strong enough to take the weekly beatings.

A quick refresher: Atlanta traded with San Diego so the Falcons could move up and take Vick at No. 1. In return, San Diego got LaDainian Tomlinson at No. 5 and Brees with the first pick of the second round.

Think Atlanta wants a do-over?

Think the Miami Dolphins, who elected to sign the taller, more athletic Daunte Culpepper over Brees last offseason -- officially a dumber decision than the Texans' passing on Vince Young and Reggie Bush -- want a do-over?

In 2001, everyone was so gaga over Vick's athleticism that nobody bothered to question whether he could regularly complete half of his passes. In Troy Smith, we have a quarterback who does all the right things, and yet he might as well be Gino Torretta.

NFL scouts will make the same mistake with Smith that they did with Brees. It's absolutely criminal that some people still consider Michigan State's Drew Stanton (never had a single defining win) and LSU's JaMarcus Russell (immense physical talents but not polished yet) better draft prospects than Smith.

It never fails. Every year one player's flaw takes on a whole new level of ridiculous importance. Last year, Vince Young annihilated virtually every defense in college football, but his Wonderlic test all of a sudden became stupidly significant.

This year, it's Smith's height. The critics act like an ewok is trying to become an NFL starter. On the other side of it, Quinn's coach and his offensive system are already the most overrated traits of any prospect. I'm not trying to take anything away from Quinn, who put up the numbers to justify his being the No. 1 pick in April, but there were very few games in which his presence alone was responsible for the Irish's winning. You never got the feeling he won the game. Besides, Quinn's most defining win this season was a comeback against a bad Michigan State team. Notre Dame hasn't beaten a top-10 team since Charlie Weis arrived in South Bend. Quinn has yet to win a bowl game and he perennially gets served up by rival USC. But there is your Maxwell Award winner for the best player in college football.

Meanwhile, there were at least half a dozen games in which Smith was the most powerful force on the field. Every Michigan game. The Penn State and Texas games this year. Iowa -- this year and last year. And, of course, Notre Dame in the 2006 Fiesta Bowl.

Against Michigan, the best defense that both Quinn and Smith faced, Quinn threw for 234 yards and three touchdowns. Smith bombed them for 316 yards and four scores. Quinn's 4-inch advantage over Smith couldn't be more overestimated.

Everything about Smith screams he is the wrong player to overlook. Yet that is exactly what will happen in April even though he had a college career that was better than one of the most glorified quarterbacks in recent memory.

But in the NFL, measurements are more valued than film. Stopwatches are trusted more than instinct.

At least there is one good thing that comes from Smith's not being a top-five pick. He's less likely to be drafted by the Detroit Lions.

Jemele Hill, a Page 2 columnist and writer for ESPN the Magazine, can be reached at jemeleespn@gmail.com.
 
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irishfox

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Let's think about this...Mel Kuiper (knows a lot about football) and then this lady whom I have never heard of and am will to bet that no one else has unless you are a regular of ESPN.com page 2 or the magazine. Who do you think the NFL GM's will listen to more if they had too? Let her keep talking/writing and come back to us 5 years from now when Smith finally gets his first start. You know he wont have a clue how to understand an NFL playbook, he goes to tO$U.
 
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luckofirish8

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just wait til draft day, they'll be all over his first pick in the draft nuts.
 

Aerosmith777

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I love it when people who obviously know nothing about college football or scouting try to write an article like they do.

My favorite in this one is when she summarily dismissed Michael Vick's speed. I hate it when journalists ask a question in an article, and then dismiss the answer that everyone else accepts in the very next line. If you dismiss Vick's speed, than Vick wouldn't have been taken 1st overall, or even in the first round.

And when did Smith become a top 15 pick? I must've missed that. Hope this girl doesn't have a heart attack when he falls to the 2nd round. He's about as short as Vick, but isn't as mobile AND doesn't have as strong an arm (a fact she conveniently left out).

And if you think playing in a pro-style offense under a world-renowned NFL QB guru is "overrated," well then I have no use for you.

This is why I've stopped watching ESPN.
 

nd1

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Does it really matter what these so called experts say. The gm's in the pro are not listen to these people when they draft.These gm's are going to do what best for thier team.
 
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iam3r3rd

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What could happen is the fans will listen to the media who will say that Cleveland (or another team) should draft Smith. Then when they don't, the fans will rebel against the owner. It would not surprise me if something like this happened either this year or soon. The bigger the media influence on people become, the bigger the pressure that the fans will put on the GM and owner.
 

njuneardave

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What could happen is the fans will listen to the media who will say that Cleveland (or another team) should draft Smith. Then when they don't, the fans will rebel against the owner. It would not surprise me if something like this happened either this year or soon. The bigger the media influence on people become, the bigger the pressure that the fans will put on the GM and owner.

i'm going to respectfully disagree with this one iam... GM's want to keep their fans happy. the BEST way to keep them happy is to win. GM's won't be so naive to say "the fans will be happy with Troy even if we keep losing." Fans are too fickle for that. IF the GM is able to get in good talent and starts to improve his team (even without Smith), fans will be appeased.... until the team has a down year again
 

nd1

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I really don't think these gm's are listening to fans. they are going to get the best player or who fits there system the best no matter what the fans think. It's thier job on the line and they are going to try to win games no matter who the have to draft.
 
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FleaFlicker

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I know, I know, this would be censorship. But can we have some sort of rule to not post links to ESPN... ever. I clicked on it because I didn't see anyone had pasted it, and now I'm pissed off that I made ESPN $.05.
 

marv81s

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i second that.

espn is shit, mandal is shit, 95% of the "experts" hate ND, think I have heard all of this before.

Don't go to espn.com we know what they think about ND.
 
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Her article is funny, because she asks, "If Vick was a #1 pick, why can't Smith be?" then goes on to explain how Atlanta fucked up the pick. THAT is why Smith can't be. Vick was a bad draft pick. He's a bust. All hype, no substance. Smith can't be the #1 pick because someone already made that mistake.
 
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UNTITLEDPROJECT

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Meh, I dont blame him. He would easily be forgotten as 'The Idiot That Thinks Smith Is Better Than Quinn'

It would be far more advantageous for him to predict:

'Genius That Predicted Smith Was Better Than Quinn'
 

marv81s

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just subscribe to blue and gold illustrated to get your ND news for now on.
 

nd1

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everytime you post I have to read it two or three times because that damn girl kepts catching my eyes.
 

KMac151993

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Then why did Tommie Frazier not go #1 in the NFL draft, look at his body of collegiate work and his ability.
 
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solo

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Bottom line in my opinion?

There isn't a good QB prospect entering the NFL draft this year. Quinn, Smith, and Russell all fail at the next level.
 
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HereComesTheSun

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Women write articles on men's sports now!? I wish Susan B. Anthony had never been born.
 
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FleaFlicker

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Bottom line in my opinion?

There isn't a good QB prospect entering the NFL draft this year. Quinn, Smith, and Russell all fail at the next level.

I think you are dead wrong on that. I find it quite funny how you don't know nearly as much as you think you do about some stuff.

i.e. How you think brady can't play well in big games, or againt good defenses.

Hello? he lit up a Penn State defense that gave plenty of teams trouble this year.

But go ahead and keep your blinders on, see exactly what you want to see.

UCLA game, did we win? Did they hold USC to 7 offensive points?

Here is your problem, if the ND defense gives up 40 points, and Quinn passes 5 TD, to give us 35 points, you and everyone else will say that he can't win a big game...

Are you serious?

Just like if Smith passes for 0 TDs, 1INT, 50% completion percentage, against Illinois, but OSU's defense doesn't let them score, OSU wins, and people don't discredit Smith at all.

What's wierd about this?

One QB can play amazingly, the other can play poorly, and they get the inverse credit of what they deserve. It has happened all year and you are brainwashed into thinking the opinion you have been told (which isn't your) is right.
 
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solo

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I think you are dead wrong on that. I find it quite funny how you don't know nearly as much as you think you do about some stuff.

i.e. How you think brady can't play well in big games, or againt good defenses.

Hello? he lit up a Penn State defense that gave plenty of teams trouble this year.

But go ahead and keep your blinders on, see exactly what you want to see.

UCLA game, did we win? Did they hold USC to 7 offensive points?

Here is your problem, if the ND defense gives up 40 points, and Quinn passes 5 TD, to give us 35 points, you and everyone else will say that he can't win a big game...

Are you serious?

Just like if Smith passes for 0 TDs, 1INT, 50% completion percentage, against Illinois, but OSU's defense doesn't let them score, OSU wins, and people don't discredit Smith at all.

What's wierd about this?

One QB can play amazingly, the other can play poorly, and they get the inverse credit of what they deserve. It has happened all year and you are brainwashed into thinking the opinion you have been told (which isn't your) is right.

You say "see what you want to see". Well, what I want to see is an ND team that has as many 1st rounders as any other school. I want to see a legit top 5 ND team with studs at every position. But we simply aren't there yet.

Now, what did you see this year? Did you see Quinn carrying this team? Did he have any great games this year in which the ND defense lost the game? That's just not what I saw. I saw a QB that had many a great game versus average and below average opponents. I didn't see a QB that stepped up in the big games and made big play after big play in those games.

Quinn was a good QB for ND. He holds many records. But none of that will matter in the NFL. Can he read complex defenses? Will he be able to adjust to the speed of the NFL? None of these are givens evne with the most highly touted propsects. To assume that he is going to have a lights out NFL career simply because he is going to be drafted in the 1st round is naive. He has potential. But I wouldn't call him a lock.
 
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