Comments on Willingham

[Rip Rap]

From the Sporting News, citing an anonymous coach (first posted at UHND):

"I'm not saying they were lacking toughness under Willingham, but it wasn't what they were noted for," the Big Ten coach said. "When you used to come out of those games, you were sore for a long time. Now you aren't as sore…Willingham was a classy guy, the type Notre Dame wants representing it. But I don't know how tough and demanding he was, and I think he had some staff issues, too.

"I think he had some good coaches on his staff, but he also had some weak links. When you're in a program like that, you can't afford to have one person not pulling on the oars with everyone else."

Now, that quote has got to be either Tiller or Carr. My guess is Tiller. Not whiny enough to be Carr...and I'm not sure Carr enjoys a challenge anyway.

 

[jiggafini19]

John L Smith hasn't had enough games vs. ND. Has to be Tiller.

 

[sblxdoc]

the Big Ten coach said. "When you used to come out of those games, you were sore for a long time. Now you aren't as sore…

Let me reassure you that will all change. Start stocking up on BenGay.

 

[irishtexan]

get the bandaids, stitches, and arm slings ready too.

 

[bmf175]

Well this is what Willingham brought to Notre Dame, loss of RESPECT. Schools did not fear playing in ND stadium as they once did. Maybe the MSUs and the Naval Academies of college football did not like the idea.
BUT now USC, BC, Pitt, Purdue they do not fear playing under touchdown jesus as they once did.

 

[irishtexan]

and i can honestly say that watching Notre Dame the last 3 years was like watching a team with no fire. They didnt seem tough on the field for some reason, I just didnt get that feeling from watching them. I bet whoever said this isnt the only coach who felt this way.

 

[BigIrish]

and i can honestly say that watching Notre Dame the last 3 years was like watching a team with no fire. They didnt seem tough on the field for some reason, I just didnt get that feeling from watching them. I bet whoever said this isnt the only coach who felt this way.

well, you're exactly right. it's interesting to get the comments from a big 10 coach, but frankly, he's only stating the obvious - not some big secret. the irish have played with a lack of toughness and mental discipline for several years now. it's been painfully obvious and that's ultimately why willingham was let go.

 

[jiggafini19]

The Pitt game last November spoke volumes of what ND had become under that last regime. Penalties on third and fourth down. Horrendous defense, especially in the secondary. Under Holtz, ND would run the ball head on and ram it down the throats of their opponents. You don't get that sense of dominance any more.

That should return soon.

 

[nshope]

The Pitt game last November spoke volumes of what ND had become under that last regime. Penalties on third and fourth down. Horrendous defense, especially in the secondary. Under Holtz, ND would run the ball head on and ram it down the throats of their opponents. You don't get that sense of dominance any more.

That should return soon.

I agree...WillingWHO!! I'm so glad he's out the door now. We never had a consistent running game under him. The West Coast Offense means nothing if you can't run the ball. I think that Weis will be able to make the right adjustments and gameplan for each contest. If we need to run the ball to win, he's going to do it. If Quinn needs to throw 40 times to win, he'll have him do it. The best thing that can come out of all of this though is a defense that has some attitude. No one took our defense seriously. We're not the best by far, but lack of hustle and intensity is no excuse. Weis will get the best out of his players.

 

[irishtexan]

Is Ty's new OC very good? I read on other boards hes good. I was just wondering if he has what it takes to resurrect Ty into the freakin Immortal God ESPN made him into. I think Washington will win 2 -3 games this year at the most. It kind of sucks because i thought it was better for the Pac 10 when they were winning.

 

[weisfaninmass]

Is Ty's new OC very good? I read on other boards hes good. I was just wondering if he has what it takes to resurrect Ty into the freakin Immortal God ESPN made him into. I think Washington will win 2 -3 games this year at the most. It kind of sucks because i thought it was better for the Pac 10 when they were winning.

the Pac 10 is so much better now than it was when TY coached at Stanford....he'll be lucky to win 2-3 games.

 

[irishtexan]

sorry...correction...when washington was winning

 

[jiggafini19]

I'm sick of talking about him. Honestly, I hope Washington does well with the exception of one game on their schedule, obviously.

The guy is gone and what he leaves behind will have to do for the time being. I can't wait for the season to kick off. Maybe then the Ty talk will cease once and for all.

Kicking Washington's ass will probably be the best closure. After that, I highly recommend that posts about Willingham end once and for all.

 

[BigIrish]

I'm sick of talking about him. Honestly, I hope Washington does well with the exception of one game on their schedule, obviously.

The guy is gone and what he leaves behind will have to do for the time being. I can't wait for the season to kick off. Maybe then the Ty talk will cease once and for all.

Kicking Washington's ass will probably be the best closure. After that, I highly recommend that posts about Willingham end once and for all.

agreed. one of the things i like about this board is that it's relatively constructive discussion, with less of the petty whining, bashing, etc. that is found on so many other sites. i second the suggestion of referring to willingham only in context of the discussion, rather than letting interesting threads somehow degenerate into a dead horse kicking contest.

 

[bmf175]

I'm sick of talking about him. Honestly, I hope Washington does well with the exception of one game on their schedule, obviously.

The guy is gone and what he leaves behind will have to do for the time being. I can't wait for the season to kick off. Maybe then the Ty talk will cease once and for all.

Kicking Washington's ass will probably be the best closure. After that, I highly recommend that posts about Willingham end once and for all.

Actually I believe somewhere on this site it says, a place to bitch, whine, talk, and complain (somewhere along those lines). I find it funny when people say they do not want to talk about somebody. So they end up starting a conversation on WHY we shouldn't talk about the person.

How about you try this.... Read the title of the Thread (left hand side of the home page). If you do not like the title and the contents of the thread do not click on the thread to read what is inside. It actually works pretty good. You guys should try it.

Do you think I care about Hockey or if St. Mary's is having a lecture on blah blah blah? No, I don't. so I simply do not click on that thread to read about it. BUT I do think somebody on the website might enjoy reading about it so I do not click on the thread only to say, we shouldn't talk about this.

It's the off season, we really do not have much to talk about. Talking about somebody that changed the Notre Dame program is in itself talking about the Notre Dame program. Which is what this site is all about.

To not talk about the history of ND (even if it was only last year) is to ignore what makes ND football so great (or what has caused ND to be not so great recently).

To sum up. If it has anything to do with Notre Dame football it should be OPEN game. If you do not like the topic Do not not click on the link to open the thread. Its actually pretty simple if you think about it.

Thanks, Mike

 

[BigIrish]

Actually I believe somewhere on this site it says, a place to bitch, whine, talk, and complain (somewhere along those lines). I find it funny when people say they do not want to talk about somebody. So they end up starting a conversation on WHY we shouldn't talk about the person.

How about you try this.... Read the title of the Thread (left hand side of the home page). If you do not like the title and the contents of the thread do not click on the thread to read what is inside. It actually works pretty good. You guys should try it.

Do you think I care about Hockey or if St. Mary's is having a lecture on blah blah blah? No, I don't. so I simply do not click on that thread to read about it. BUT I do think somebody on the website might enjoy reading about it so I do not click on the thread only to say, we shouldn't talk about this.

It's the off season, we really do not have much to talk about. Talking about somebody that changed the Notre Dame program is in itself talking about the Notre Dame program. Which is what this site is all about.

To not talk about the history of ND (even if it was only last year) is to ignore what makes ND football so great (or what has caused ND to be not so great recently).

To sum up. If it has anything to do with Notre Dame football it should be OPEN game. If you do not like the topic Do not not click on the link to open the thread. Its actually pretty simple if you think about it.

Thanks, Mike

ok, mike. good point. this particular thread is indeed titled "comments on willingham." evidently those comments are restricted only to comments bashing willingham, not comments suggesting we move on.

but, since you seem to be volunteering as the thread police, can you make sure that the billion other threads - that don't involve willingham in the title - don't wind up (as MANY, MANY on this site have) degenerating into a bitch session about willingham?

i look forward to your creative, new, insightful thoughts on the willingham firing, his effect on the team, etc - anything new that hasn't already been covered extensively in the past 8 months months or so since his firing.

sorry about the sarcasm - that's just my two cents on the issue.

thanks, Ryan.

 

[jiggafini19]

The Tyrone Willingham era was traumatic for us all. I am interested to hear what he has to say, if anything, about Notre Dame. I'm sure his comments the week leading up to the game will be interesting. The Notre Dame haters of the world are going to step up to the plate for him no matter what the case. That's fine.

As a Notre Dame fan, if you continually want to lament over Willingham's ability or lackthereof as a head coach of the football program, go right ahead. I like to participate in all the threads, but we're in June already and ESPN is still putting Willingham stories on their site. People are still talking about how much this guy sucked. I think we've all done a good job of letting go of Urban Meyer. Weis will make you forget, very soon, about Ty. Just as Holtz quickly buried the Faust years with the 1988 campaign.

Two stud DBs were in South Bend this past weekend for a visit and it looks like ND will get them both. We're going forward.

 

[bmf175]

ok, mike. good point. this particular thread is indeed titled "comments on willingham." evidently those comments are restricted only to comments bashing willingham, not comments suggesting we move on.

but, since you seem to be volunteering as the thread police, can you make sure that the billion other threads - that don't involve willingham in the title - don't wind up (as MANY, MANY on this site have) degenerating into a bitch session about willingham?

i look forward to your creative, new, insightful thoughts on the willingham firing, his effect on the team, etc - anything new that hasn't already been covered extensively in the past 8 months months or so since his firing.

sorry about the sarcasm - that's just my two cents on the issue.

thanks, Ryan.

Well Ryan....

In no way did I, or anybody else, say anything out of line regaurding Willingham (not for acouple months anyways).

My point IS... If we are talking about recruiting and lack of depth at certain positions is it wrong for somebody to say that it is Willingham's fault? No it isn't. Is it wrong to bring up Ty's name when talking about anything regaurding last season? No. Because in reality the short falls in this program were brought on by Willingham (to also include the few good things he actually did do).

Is it insult to state the obvious? Is it bad to say, a bad coach is in fact a bad coach? I don't think so.

I for one have not been trying to dwell on this issue.

BUT if Notre Dame fans want to talk about why we do not have depth or why no team but Navy fears playing in Notre Dame stadium. They are perfectly justified in bringing up Ty Willingham. Just as they are bringing up Lou Holtz when talking about the last NC we have won.

And just so you know Ryan, "comments" either "bashing" complimentary, flatering, or just hateful or still indeed- "COMMENTS".

Now, seeing as how we have both stated our opinions. I really do not care to talk about Willingham (so I will try to stay out of the Willinham threads). BUT if our fellow Notre Dame buddies want to talk about Willingham and how he has altered or improved the program they should be allowed to do so. Just my opinion.

Thanks, Mike

 

[BigIrish]

Well Ryan....

In no way did I, or anybody else, say anything out of line regaurding Willingham (not for acouple months anyways).

My point IS... If we are talking about recruiting and lack of depth at certain positions is it wrong for somebody to say that it is Willingham's fault? No it isn't. Is it wrong to bring up Ty's name when talking about anything regaurding last season? No. Because in reality the short falls in this program were brought on by Willingham (to also include the few good things he actually did do).

Is it insult to state the obvious? Is it bad to say, a bad coach is in fact a bad coach? I don't think so.

I for one have not been trying to dwell on this issue.

BUT if Notre Dame fans want to talk about why we do not have depth or why no team but Navy fears playing in Notre Dame stadium. They are perfectly justified in bringing up Ty Willingham. Just as they are bringing up Lou Holtz when talking about the last NC we have won.

And just so you know Ryan, "comments" either "bashing" complimentary, flatering, or just hateful or still indeed- "COMMENTS".

Now, seeing as how we have both stated our opinions. I really do not care to talk about Willingham (so I will try to stay out of the Willinham threads). BUT if our fellow Notre Dame buddies want to talk about Willingham and how he has altered or improved the program they should be allowed to do so. Just my opinion.

Thanks, Mike

sheesh...enough said. i don't think we're actually disagreeing on this, so i'll drop it.

one clarification, however...my intention wasn't to tell people they *couldn't* talk about willingham here on these boards. my goal was to get people focused on the future instead of the past. hell, even i've said negative things about willingham on these boards. and i'll go on record again saying that i think willingham is a much better man than he is coach. but nowadays, any reference to him (IMO) should come up in the context of the thread as opposed to general griping.

IMO, each day that passes is a day where willingham fades a little more into ND's past. I look forward to the day when Willingham's relevance to the program is no greater than Faust's or Kuharic's.

besides, by the weekend, it'll be mid-june. football is getting closer every day. i'm sure we can come up with plenty of non-willingham threads with the season drawing near.

Go Irish.

 

[jiggafini19]

I blame Dennis O'Leary for not getting a master's degree.

 

[Rip Rap]

Is Ty's new OC very good? I read on other boards hes good. I was just wondering if he has what it takes to resurrect Ty into the freakin Immortal God ESPN made him into. I think Washington will win 2 -3 games this year at the most. It kind of sucks because i thought it was better for the Pac 10 when they were winning.

Yes, Tim Lappano is very good. He had been attached to Erikson for years and was responsible for Oregon State's Fiasco Bowl victory over us. Anybody is better than Diedrick.

At the same time, the Pac-10 appears to be a better conference than is used to be. Carrol is obviously very good, and it would appear that Tedford is for real. Harris, Reilly, Stoops, Koetler, and Belotti all strike me as more consistent coaches (or coaches with greater upside), despite the poorer quality of their teams. Willingham will be more on the level of Dorell and Doba, but should be able to attract better players.

I think it will be difficult for Willingham to win more than four conference games a year. He is under .600 after 10 seasons as a Head Coach and has never recruited particularly well. I think those numbers are a good guage of his potential.

 

[jiggafini19]

Stoops will have Arizona up and running in no time. The Pac 10 could have a four team power struggle with USC, Arizona, Oregon and Cal for years to come.