Attrition

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
(Via the Roundup.)

In 2006, after Charlie Weis's first season as Notre Dame's head coach and a 9-3 record, the Irish pulled in Rivals's eighth-ranked recruiting class: 28 players, with an average rating of 3.46 stars. Now three of those players - QBs Zach Frazer and Demetrius Jones, and TE Konrad Reuland - have all left the team, and another - OL Chris Stewart - is thinking of doing the same. In each case, these have been players low on the depth chart - Frazer was the #4 quarterback and Jones was a backup at best, Reuland was reportedly in a battle with freshman Mike Ragone for the #3 spot, and Stewart hadn't seen the field at all this year - apparently looking for a place where they'll have a better chance to play. Following up on a suggestion from domer.mq at Her Loyal Sons, though, it seems worth comparing this rate of attrition with those at other top programs.

Let's start with Southern Cal, which had the #1-ranked 2006 class according to Rivals, with 25 total players. That class has seen the following players depart (USC's current roster is here):

Florida's second-ranked class is considerably more intact (official roster here), as their only transfer so far out of 27 total players was that of 3* ATH Derrick Robinson, who quit the team to pursue a career in professional baseball. But Florida State's third-ranked class has lost four players out of their original 31 (official roster here):
Similarly, Georgia's fourth-ranked class has lost three players of its original 28 (official roster here):
And the University of Texas (official roster here) has lost five players from their original 25, which ranked fifth:
In sum, ND's transfer rate so far is not much to worry about. As I said, all of the players who have left, or are thinking about leaving in Stewart's case, seem to have done so primarily because of depth chart issues, and when four-star highschoolers don't manage to get on the playing field, that suggests that the talent level - in ND's case, among the underclassmen - is very high.

Moreover, note that with an NCAA-imposed limit of 85 total scholarships, having a class of 28 can be a bit problematic. The Irish can get away with it - and indeed, can use all the bodies they can get - right now because of their incredibly small junior, senior, and fifth-year classes, but the size of the '06 class could have posed a problem down the line. That said, other schools make up for players who transfer away from their program with others who transfer TO it - whether from junior colleges or other D-I programs - and ND has a policy of not doing this.

Don't jump, though. At this point there's every reason to think these transfers have been a product of what's happened on the practice field and the players' inabilities to rise to the top, rather than ND's lack of success this season on Saturday afternoons.
 

Sureal

Ambassador of Good Will
Messages
2,431
Reaction score
316
Good job John. Keep some of us from going loco en la cabesa...
 

piyachi

New member
Messages
474
Reaction score
51
Wow well the only thing that worries me here is who is taking care of that baby while you're doing excellent posts.....

In truth, I had forgotten that we brought in 28 players in that class - so it is a bit of relief that if our depth players are going to leave, at least its from the class where we went 'nucking futs' to try to balance the Ty dearth.

One other telling thing in here that I don't think you called out specifically is the fact that players from these schools are essentially transferring to either other top schools or lower-in-the-conference schools like Ole Miss. Our Weis recruits are going more with this pattern, rather than Ty's recruits who went to D2 schools or the like.

Great job - I'd rep ya but I have to 'spread the love'....damn hippies
 

Irishtat

New member
Messages
313
Reaction score
10
Thanks again John! Although scary to the naked eye, which I posted about yesturday, its a healthy and regular thing, these transfers...
 
Last edited:
L

lateflow

Guest
To All Notre Dame Fans:

I want to hear one of you step up and say that the team you are currently fielding is not worthy of wearing the Golden Helmets on Saturday. I hear a lot of ND fans blame Ty Willingham for all of Notre Dame's current woes. Then, you act indignant when anyone even mentions there might be a double standard for Weiss. Unless you are willing to look the players that Willingham recruited in the face and tell them that they are not worthy of wearing a ND uniform on Saturdays and do not deserve to represent the school/institution, you have no right to blame Willingham. I don't care who recruited them, they should be YOUR GUYS. The next time you start lecturing other programs about class, take a look in the mirror first.
 

JeremyND07

MR.PATIENT
Messages
1,755
Reaction score
54
To All Notre Dame Fans:

I want to hear one of you step up and say that the team you are currently fielding is not worthy of wearing the Golden Helmets on Saturday. I hear a lot of ND fans blame Ty Willingham for all of Notre Dame's current woes. Then, you act indignant when anyone even mentions there might be a double standard for Weiss. Unless you are willing to look the players that Willingham recruited in the face and tell them that they are not worthy of wearing a ND uniform on Saturdays and do not deserve to represent the school/institution, you have no right to blame Willingham. I don't care who recruited them, they should be YOUR GUYS. The next time you start lecturing other programs about class, take a look in the mirror first.

:whoknows:
I do not remember ever seeing anyone say these players are not worthty of wearing the gold helmets...it is the lack of players that is killing us! There is were the Ty blame comes in....show him the numbers John :awesomewo
 
Last edited:

Sureal

Ambassador of Good Will
Messages
2,431
Reaction score
316
To All Notre Dame Fans:

I want to hear one of you step up and say that the team you are currently fielding is not worthy of wearing the Golden Helmets on Saturday. I hear a lot of ND fans blame Ty Willingham for all of Notre Dame's current woes. Then, you act indignant when anyone even mentions there might be a double standard for Weiss. Unless you are willing to look the players that Willingham recruited in the face and tell them that they are not worthy of wearing a ND uniform on Saturdays and do not deserve to represent the school/institution, you have no right to blame Willingham. I don't care who recruited them, they should be YOUR GUYS. The next time you start lecturing other programs about class, take a look in the mirror first.

To All Notre Dame Fans

Yeah. What is IE a troll magnet all of a sudden?

Who said they weren't our guys? I don't remember not one thread/post stating that and anyone who just out and out smashes any of our players get jumped on this site from what I seen anyway.

Weis (yes with one s) is criticized on this site as well. I'm not even getting into it because the issue is tired. If Weis jacks up next season you better believe he will get the same treatement. The guy goes to two BCS games and all of a sudden it's a double standard because he's having A bad year.
Anyone with any knowledge of this program would have known this was going to be a tough year.

Damn it define class. Lying and cheating during recruiting or defending your coach?

Read through the threads first before you start posting it would help you a lot.

This topic is dead. It's been ran through 20000000000000000 times already.

You would do better than not going on another teams site and calling them classless.
 
Last edited:

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
Wow well the only thing that worries me here is who is taking care of that baby while you're doing excellent posts.....

LOL, thanks Piyachi. It's not my kid who's suffering for attention, though ... it's my poor dissertation.

BTW, are you the same 'Piyachi' who posts in the BGS comments thread sometimes? If so then I think we have the same alma mater (I graduated CUA class of '03 before going to ND).
 

Sureal

Ambassador of Good Will
Messages
2,431
Reaction score
316
To All Notre Dame Fans:

I want to hear one of you step up and say that the team you are currently fielding is not worthy of wearing the Golden Helmets on Saturday. I hear a lot of ND fans blame Ty Willingham for all of Notre Dame's current woes. Then, you act indignant when anyone even mentions there might be a double standard for Weiss. Unless you are willing to look the players that Willingham recruited in the face and tell them that they are not worthy of wearing a ND uniform on Saturdays and do not deserve to represent the school/institution, you have no right to blame Willingham. I don't care who recruited them, they should be YOUR GUYS. The next time you start lecturing other programs about class, take a look in the mirror first.

Spam Alert
 

piyachi

New member
Messages
474
Reaction score
51
LOL, thanks Piyachi. It's not my kid who's suffering for attention, though ... it's my poor dissertation.

BTW, are you the same 'Piyachi' who posts in the BGS comments thread sometimes? If so then I think we have the same alma mater (I graduated CUA class of '03 before going to ND).

'Pologize for the threadjack

Absolutely baby! I ended up choosing CUA over ND because of the architecture programs, so unfortunately it's unlikely I'll ever go unless I am out for a football game or (hopefully) sending a kid of mine there (hopefully not soon). The area around CUA is getting better in case you haven't visited lately and we got artificial turf (the nice kind) for the field, although the team is wretchedly bad - makes me appreciate the Irish even this season. Also piyachi is my handle wherever bgs, ie, gh etc. (what is your blogs name?...and why isn't it linked on bgs?)

Go Cards....and GO IRISH
 

piyachi

New member
Messages
474
Reaction score
51
To All Notre Dame Fans:

I want to hear one of you step up and say that the team you are currently fielding is not worthy of wearing the Golden Helmets on Saturday. I hear a lot of ND fans blame Ty Willingham for all of Notre Dame's current woes. Then, you act indignant when anyone even mentions there might be a double standard for Weiss. Unless you are willing to look the players that Willingham recruited in the face and tell them that they are not worthy of wearing a ND uniform on Saturdays and do not deserve to represent the school/institution, you have no right to blame Willingham. I don't care who recruited them, they should be YOUR GUYS. The next time you start lecturing other programs about class, take a look in the mirror first.

a - spam (you would be able to spell WEIS otherwise)
2 - Ty is to blame for some things, not for all
d - I don't lecture anyone about class, and it's pretty ironic to come here and talk about that

GO IRISH
 

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
'Pologize for the threadjack

Absolutely baby! I ended up choosing CUA over ND because of the architecture programs, so unfortunately it's unlikely I'll ever go unless I am out for a football game or (hopefully) sending a kid of mine there (hopefully not soon). The area around CUA is getting better in case you haven't visited lately and we got artificial turf (the nice kind) for the field, although the team is wretchedly bad - makes me appreciate the Irish even this season. Also piyachi is my handle wherever bgs, ie, gh etc. (what is your blogs name?...and why isn't it linked on bgs?)

Go Cards....and GO IRISH

Hey, it's my thread, so jack away. I'm glad to hear about the area around CUA improving, and also about the athletic field ... I was out there over the summer and was really impressed with how the campus looked. I lived in Brookland - on Quincy St. - my last two years and loved it, except for the two times I got mugged. :) Too bad about the team sucking, though ... they were still pretty good my first year but dropped off after that. I was there for the '02 basketball championship, though, which was pretty fricking awesome.

Architecture at CUA is really great; I had a bunch of friends who made it through, so hang in there!

The blog is at irishroundup.blogspot.com; it's going to be moved to an IE domain soon, but that's still in the works. I don't think I'm important enough yet for BGS to link to me ... someday maybe. :)
 

piyachi

New member
Messages
474
Reaction score
51
Well I never have been mugged and crime has steadily gone down (due to gentrification I think). They bought land next-door to double the size of campus (slightly controversial how they wrangled it away from the vet home). There is a huge series of dorms going up as we speak. I was 03-07 so alas I missed the BBall championship, but I did finish my archie undergrad.... now on to grad wherever.

The football team dropped off after the coach retired and the fill-in was a d3 version of the molder of men....minus his redeeming characteristics. The ole bawl coach came back but all that happened was we lost 53-20 instead of 53-0 and he retired again (guess he doesn't have time for this sh*t). I played tennis, so whatev.

I just saw your blog via HLS to Subway to Irishroundup, and frankly its a lot better than some of the blog links. I've given up on reading some of the ones BGS links to on anything more than a bi-weekly basis since they update infrequently. You should talk to em, they'd put you up.
 
L

lateflow

Guest
"I do not remember ever seeing anyone say these players are not worthty of wearing the gold helmets...it is the lack of players that is killing us! There is were the Ty blame comes in"

That's exactly my point! You wanna blame Willingham because of poor recruiting, but you refuse to man up and tell your own players that they're not good enough for you. And if this story is so tired and played out, then why are there still threads in this forum with Ty's name in the title?
 

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
"I do not remember ever seeing anyone say these players are not worthty of wearing the gold helmets...it is the lack of players that is killing us! There is were the Ty blame comes in"

That's exactly my point! You wanna blame Willingham because of poor recruiting, but you refuse to man up and tell your own players that they're not good enough for you.

Hey - why not try READING what you just quoted? He said it's the LACK of players that's the problem, not the players themselves.
 

piyachi

New member
Messages
474
Reaction score
51
Ok I will wade into the muck of a hostile board-boarding:

No one is saying anything against the players that are willing to play for us. People are saying that Ty brought in a - too few, b - not as talented recruits. Think the older players dont realize this? Think it's something else causing them to transfer? The people that say it's 'tired' and 'played out' are the people that are defending Ty, and his habit of golfing instead of recruiting. In the past 4 weeks it has been discussed a lot because it's results are playing out on the field.

I respect the hell outta every guy we put on that field. Fact is, some are better football players than others. Almost all of the better players are because Weis is a better recruiter and a harder worker.

How would I go about telling a player 'they aren't good enough for me [sic]'? The only person that would be displayed towards is Willingham.

If you are not a troll, and I highly doubt this is the case, then please try to be less of an instigator (sp?).
 

portlaNDgal

salmonid
Messages
398
Reaction score
34
Ok I will wade into the muck of a hostile board-boarding:

No one is saying anything against the players that are willing to play for us. People are saying that Ty brought in a - too few, b - not as talented recruits. Think the older players dont realize this? Think it's something else causing them to transfer? The people that say it's 'tired' and 'played out' are the people that are defending Ty, and his habit of golfing instead of recruiting. In the past 4 weeks it has been discussed a lot because it's results are playing out on the field.

I respect the hell outta every guy we put on that field. Fact is, some are better football players than others. Almost all of the better players are because Weis is a better recruiter and a harder worker.

How would I go about telling a player 'they aren't good enough for me [sic]'? The only person that would be displayed towards is Willingham.

If you are not a troll, and I highly doubt this is the case, then please try to be less of an instigator (sp?).

You put my thoughts into words perfectly. Thanks. I am proud of every man who puts on an ND uniform, from the Heisman candidates to the scrubs.
 

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
Hey folks, I just wanted to say that if anyone can help to pull together a list of the 16 players who've left ND under Weis, that would be great. I'd love to be able to do a little research into why they left and post it on the Roundup. Mad reps to anyone who contributes.
 
S

SouthieND04

Guest
This what you're looking for?

Overall, two players from this year’s senior class have left – Freddie Parish and LaBrose Hedgemon; eight players from the junior class – Chauncey Incarnato, John Kadous, Tregg Duerson, Chris Vaughn, Junior Jabbie, Justin Hoskins, and Brandon Nicolas; and one from the sophomore class – Joey Hiben.

Willingham’s Stamp on Irish Fading, For Now - UHND.com
 

WaveDomer

Well-known member
Messages
1,356
Reaction score
307
Okay

Okay

Okay, one "S" in Weis people.:wink:

This entire "transfer" issue is just media pile-on. However, when you are Notre Dame, you get that kind of attention. People transfer all the time for different reasons. I still think the ND recruits will stick. There are a lot of reasons that a player will choose Notre Dame over any other school. Football is a big part of that, but it's just a part of that. As I said before, I think this group of players will be so mentally tough in two years that it is going to be scary for the rest of D1.
 

KamaraPolice

Reps Are a Girls BFF
Messages
3,077
Reaction score
297
Hey folks, I just wanted to say that if anyone can help to pull together a list of the 16 players who've left ND under Weis, that would be great. I'd love to be able to do a little research into why they left and post it on the Roundup. Mad reps to anyone who contributes.

Sounds great, would love to see it (hope you're still doing it).

I can think of Ronald Talley last year (would love to have him this year).
Rasheon Powers-Neal (would have loved to have him vs. USC that year).
 

piyachi

New member
Messages
474
Reaction score
51
Justin Hoskins RB - Central Michigan

Chauncey Incarnato OL
- Indiana

Brandon Nicolas DT
- Colorado

Abdel Banda LB- No idea where he went but he isn't on the roster

John Kadous OL- Left due to injury and pressure

Tregg Duerson CB- Left the team but stayed at ND

Ron Talley DL- Left team, not sure why

David Wolke QB - Western Kentucky

Leo Ferrine CB - Not sure

Christopher Vaughn WR
- Louisville

Nick Borseti LB- Don't know where he is, but not on the roster

Freddie Parrish S - Steven F. Austin State University

Ashley McConnell RB- Tough to tell where he went from reading up, but he's off the roster

Isaiah Gardener RB - Maryland

Labrose Hedgemon DB- I think he left due to this suspension, not positive

Zach Frazier QB - Connecticut

Demetrius Jones QB - Cincinnatti

Joey Hiben TE- Left the football team to focus on architecture

Raeshon Powers-Neal RB- Signed by the Broncos (doesn't quite count towards attrition IMO)

Hopefully this helps... Not sure what the deal is with everyone, but we sure have lost a lot of guys in the shuffle. If there is anything fortunate to take out of that as a fan, it's that most of these guys seem to be lower-tier d1A players or d1AA. Or they focused on academics, which is obviously a very respectable reason to leave the team.
 
Last edited:

KamaraPolice

Reps Are a Girls BFF
Messages
3,077
Reaction score
297
thanks for the list... there were some players i had forgot about.

however,

I think McConnell actually graduated last season (or atleast used up all his eligibility).
 
Top