When does ESPN cross into the realm of blatant slander?

[NDLyght37]

Why? The Meyer incident gave all appearances of being a fiasco, but if we weren't going to engage in a comprehensive search, it was for the best. Following Meyer, we displayed all the appearances of a deliberate and patient search. Petrino and Hawkins were dismissed early (if Meyer was ever even offered a job) because they felt they had better candidates. Charging toward one candidate strikes me as exactly the wrong thing to do. Instead, they made a patient search for a quality candidate and came up with a winner...My point in starting this thread was that ESPN created a perception that differed from the reality, precisely because they had an agenda. And they still do.

See, this is where we disagree. If I'm Notre dame, the last thing I want is a situation similar to 3 years ago. If you know you're going to fire TY, then you have your list of candidates. You interview them and gauge ineterest behind closed doors. You don't leak anything or make any inquiries through the media. Once you have your coach signed, then you make the announcement to release Willingham. You'll still get bashed for firing a guy like Ty, but at least you won't drag the university through what appears to be a bungled coaching search. Having every coach in North America did not do anything to help the University's reputation. IMO, You fire/hire a coach the same way you would carry out an assasination...quick, painless, & efficient.

Putting everything in the Meyer basket at first, and then losing him made ND look unorganized. I think Weiss is a good coach, but the process of getting to him took some of the shine off of the Golden Dome.

ESPN can only hurt you with the ammunitions you give them. And wether it was perception or reality, ND gave them plenty of ammo.

 

[timm3117]

Where I disagee with you NDLyght is ND never said Meyer was there man, the media and fans said it. ND cant win, if they fired Ty and hired someone the next day they get ripped, if they wait 2 weeks they get ripped. But who cares we got a great coach and thats what counts.

 

[NDLyght37]

Where I disagee with you NDLyght is ND never said Meyer was there man, the media and fans said it. ND cant win, if they fired Ty and hired someone the next day they get ripped, if they wait 2 weeks they get ripped. But who cares we got a great coach and thats what counts.

I see where you're coming from. But a few more points...we all knew who ND was going after. Even if it was never explicitly said until after Ty was fired, we all know who the University coveted. that's like me going to Best Buy and staring at a plasma screen tv for a whole week, but then when someone else buys it, I say I wasn't really interested.

Secondly, it would have been better to take the flak for firing Willingham and that's it. Instead we got the flak, and the University looked like the Keystone Cops when picking a successor.

Finally, I think we got a very good, solid coach. But I reserve "great" for coaches that win titles...hopefully in 3 years Wies will be great.

 

[timm3117]

But my problem is alot of people were ripping ND saying they fired him just for Meyer. And thats just not true, they fired Ty for losing. Thats all it was about. When you blow game after game that you should win, you get fired. Had ND lost to Tennesse, Michigan, and USC. Ty would still have a job, but when we beat Tenn, and Michigan, They lost the talent excuse. It became less about talent and more about coaching. I like Ty hes a great guy and I wish him all the best, but ND isn't Stanford, here 6-5 isn't an above average season, its a disapointment.

 

[Rip Rap]

Well, if Ty was a good coach, he should get hired again...and its looks like he did. I predict he will hover around .600 at Washington too, because I don't think he is any better than that. For his sake, I hope Diedrick doesn't come with him.

As for ESPN and company, the reaction seems mixed, but flatter than what would seem otherwise rational to me. There are still a few reporters throwing around the race card, but the NFL commentators seem to think this is a coup. Thank God the NFL has 3X the viewership of college ball.

And Corso and Herbsreit were playing the 'unknown commodity' angle last night, as if Weis wasn't the top choice of the Browns and Dolphins. I think they could have at least mentioned that...

 

[seIRISH]

Mark May just hates on Notre Dame! He has Notre Dame not competing for ten years and washington going to the bcs in three years.Well good job washington you got the hottest coach in America. It is to bad sympathy does not win ball games. Weis comes in with something tyrone could never do adjust.

 

[Rip Rap]

Two things:

1.) ESPN says ND has 'no talent' (a lie), but it should be easier for us to recruit.
2.) I believe Mark May went to Pitt. If Clements takes the job at Pitt, will he like him?

 

[NDLyght37]

Mark May just hates on Notre Dame! He has Notre Dame not competing for ten years and washington going to the bcs in three years.Well good job washington you got the hottest coach in America. It is to bad sympathy does not win ball games. Weis comes in with something tyrone could never do adjust.

Actually I believe Ty will do extremely well if he goes to Washington. Just because he faltered at ND, let's not make it like the man can't coach. He took Stanford...STANFORD to 5 bowl games (including a Rose Bowl), so obviously he has some skill. And I think he did a respectable job in South Bend, not what we all wanted; but you could see the improvement. Also, he's a very honorable man who does things the "right way", and it's good to hear that he might be able to land on his feet.

Also, in regards to ESPN...I think most ND fans are being way too sensitive. As someone who was worked in the media (including freelance for ESPN/ABC Sports), I can tell you they were just doing their job. The reporters just reported, and the commentators commented. Agree or disagree, opinion is what a lot of those guys get paid for. And even Stevie Wonder could see that Notre Dame looked a lil' silly during this hiring process. And Timm, I know what you're saying...but I think if Meyer was not available, Willingham would still be coaching at Notre Dame.

 

[Rip Rap]

Also, in regards to ESPN...I think most ND fans are being way too sensitive. As someone who was worked in the media (including freelance for ESPN/ABC Sports), I can tell you they were just doing their job. The reporters just reported, and the commentators commented. Agree or disagree, opinion is what a lot of those guys get paid for. And even Stevie Wonder could see that Notre Dame looked a lil' silly during this hiring process.

You said 'perception becomes reality,' but ESPN made the perception too. I've said it again and again: THERE IS NO REASON TO THINK ANYBODY OTHER THAN WEIS WAS EVER OFFERED THE JOB. I think the thing that makes ESPN's particular bias obvious is the foiling of its coverage against Sports Illustrated in particular, but also CBSsports, who generally acknowledged that point when addressing the situation.

NBC was also suprisingly hard on ND, but I guess they couldn't just wave the team flag. Still, the point remains, ND interviewed several candidates and offered one, who should have been regarded as a homerun: The top coordinator at any level, a desciple of Parcells and Bellichek, seriously favored for a head coaching position in the NFL.

As for ESPN: Joe Theismann and Beano Cook predictably celebrated ND's actions, and yes: Herbsreit, Corso, Alberts, May, et. al. will change their tune in a heartbeat to whatever sells. Suprisingly, my biggest beef was with Pat Forde and Ivan Maisel, who I would have expected under similar circumstances to be more objective (i.e. Florida is the best job in football, ND is the worst...gimme a break). If you felt Notre Dame looked silly because of this hiring process, than you must have thought Pat Forde and Ivan Maisel looked like tabloid journalists.

Just to be fair...

 

[NDLyght37]

Fair points, but I still think you can only run wild with the ammo someone gives you. And the University gave ESPN and other media outlets plenty of ammo. I do think ND looked silly. Anyone who doesn't think they offered Meyer the job is naive. I don't think they offered it to everybody...but they at least offered it to Weis and Meyer. Also, if ESPN is culpable, so are the coaches who came out and said they weren't interested without being asked by the University or the media.

Frankly, I agree with Maisel (which has to be a first...lol). If I were a hot young coach, I'd choose Florida over Notre Dame as well. The money + a greater chance to win a championship + looser academic standards...plus it's Florida! As much as I like ND, who would choose spending winter in South Bend over winter in Florida.

Did Forde & Maisel go overboard...probably. But again, you bring commentators on to give opinion. I can't fault them for just doing their job. It's like the PTI guys or Jim Rome. They're great...but you don't go to them for impartial news. You go to them for opinion & controversy.

 

[Rip Rap]

The money

You said it. I'm not sure what you know, but you said it.

 

[NDLyght37]

lol...just saying that if the reports are accurate out of Gainseville, how can anyone turn down that much cash?

 

[seIRISH]

Lyght when did we see the improvement 5-6,or 6-5.four more years we would have been 10-1.His records at Standford was not that impressive He had one really good season and faltered at the end. where have I seen that before. Dont feel bad Igot caught up in the hype of Ty also and I think he is a good man but he eas going nowhere at ND.

 

[Rip Rap]

Actually I believe Ty will do extremely well if he goes to Washington. Just because he faltered at ND, let's not make it like the man can't coach. He took Stanford...STANFORD to 5 bowl games (including a Rose Bowl), so obviously he has some skill. And I think he did a respectable job in South Bend, not what we all wanted; but you could see the improvement. Also, he's a very honorable man who does things the "right way", and it's good to hear that he might be able to land on his feet.

Probably not much point in talking about Ty too much more, but he inherited a Stanford team formed under Bill Walsh and Dennis Green, and I belive both had better records than him. If anybody has the stats, I would be interested.

Half of all teams make bowl games. That statistic will never impress me.

Willingham got blown-out all the time at ND. I think of Davie and I think of losing. I think of Willingham and I think of getting my ass handed to me. ND was very un-fun to watch with Willingham at the helm, particularly after earning the same win percentage as Davie in such a lopsided way. Coupled with the worst recruiting class in the school's history? I won't miss him too much. But yes, he was a good man.

If you check out the Washington boards, they are understandably dissapointed that he was 'all that was available.' Now THAT sounds like the ND from three years ago!

 

[NDLyght37]

Actually Stanford was terrible during Walsh's last 3 seasons.
As great as Walsh is, his return to Stanford was awful (17-17-1 overall;3-7-1 in his final year).
And Willingham went to 5 bowls during his tenure at Stanford, including the Rose Bowl (which is arguably more prestigious than any game we could muster in the Davie Era). Again...he went to the Rose Bowl with Stanford...you can't even do that on Playstation.

I may be in the minority (in more ways than one...lol), but enjoyed every year Willigham had at ND except for last year. I was shocked at the 10-2 season, and I was proud of the way our guys fought this past season.

If I was a college AD, I would hire Tyrone Willingham in a minute...I just wouldn't let him pick his assistants.

As for improvement, I saw a lot of it this year. Sure, the final product was not what we wanted, but I was content with what the team accomplished, because I knew we were headed in the right direction.

But the bottom line is both ND & UW win in this situation (although I still would have gone with Clements...lol).

 

[irishtexan]

i sure as hell didnt see much improvement. dropped passes, blown coverages, missed tackles, inacurrate passes, too many sacks, inconsistent offense, conservative play calling. you may not have recognized it because we were winning in 2002, but it happened alot. and im not even going to start on last season. i think ty is a good person, and an average coach, hes not bad. hes just not what the irish needed. ndlyght, you may be right, if he had different assistants he might still be in south bend, but who knows. did his assistants from notre dame go to washington with him? if they did, then i beleive the irish will beat the huskies next year. and beat them good too, because from what ive been reading so far, weis is putting together some names of very talented people to work under him.

 

[NDLyght37]

I saw improvements in terms of an offense coming together. It was less than 2 years ago that we were still running the option, so I tend to give a coach a break in terms of installing a system.

But, I hope Willingham will have learned from ND, and hire new (YOUNG) assistants who can recruit as well.

 

[BigIrish]

NDLyght37 - although you might give them just a little too much credit, i tend to agree with you on the ESPN stuff. they pay guys to give their opinions and let's face it. as ND fans, we know the score. when we're down, we'll get kicked. but when we're up, we'll get praised. if weis is able to take the Irish back to championship contention, we'll be seeing ESPN specials on ND's return to greatness. why? because hating and loving ND are the means to the same ends - t.v. ratings.

 

[NDLyght37]

NDLyght37 - although you might give them just a little too much credit, i tend to agree with you on the ESPN stuff. they pay guys to give their opinions and let's face it. as ND fans, we know the score. when we're down, we'll get kicked. but when we're up, we'll get praised. if weis is able to take the Irish back to championship contention, we'll be seeing ESPN specials on ND's return to greatness. why? because hating and loving ND are the means to the same ends - t.v. ratings.

Exactly...we're the Yankees of college football. If they can't air a story about how great the program is, they're just as happy to do a story about the decline of ND. There are only about 10 programs in the country that are on that "front page/lead story" level, IMO. That's why Penn State & Joe paterno was on Sportscenter every week...both for what they were, and for what they are. That's the nature of the beast when it comes to journalism...especially sports journalism.

That's why I was saying that we should have handled this tighter. Not that the coaching change wasn't the right move (time will tell)...but you can't do something unprecedented to the University's first minority head coach and not have all your ducks in a row.

The good thing now is that the media is starting to show some love for Weis.

 

[irishgo8]

Actually I believe Ty will do extremely well if he goes to Washington. Just because he faltered at ND, let's not make it like the man can't coach. He took Stanford...STANFORD to 5 bowl games (including a Rose Bowl), so obviously he has some skill. And I think he did a respectable job in South Bend, not what we all wanted; but you could see the improvement. Also, he's a very honorable man who does things the "right way", and it's good to hear that he might be able to land on his feet.

Also, in regards to ESPN...I think most ND fans are being way too sensitive. As someone who was worked in the media (including freelance for ESPN/ABC Sports), I can tell you they were just doing their job. The reporters just reported, and the commentators commented. Agree or disagree, opinion is what a lot of those guys get paid for. And even Stevie Wonder could see that Notre Dame looked a lil' silly during this hiring process. And Timm, I know what you're saying...but I think if Meyer was not available, Willingham would still be coaching at Notre Dame.

I agree with the first paragraph. But about ESPN. They went WAY overboard bashing down ND. one nasty comment is enough - but when u put 10 on the front page of your website and NO ONE until 5 days later says it is just - remember ESPN hid the article that said firing willingham was just - then that is a little bit nasty to ND. I am just glad we got a good coach

 

[Rip Rap]

Of course, with 'friends' like Rev. Malloy and his glorified secretary 'watching out' for Notre Dame, ESPN's comments were mild in retrospect.

 

[Aerosmith777]

Honestly, I don't know if you can call what ESPN does "journalism" anymore. First of all, they did not just "report the facts". They did that when the facts allowed them to trash ND some more, but when they didn't, ESPN simply made up facts that did, i.e. ND being turned down by Petrino and Hawkins, ND offering a deal worth more than $1 million less to Meyer than Florida's deal (even Meyer's father said the Irish's deal was only marginally less than Florida's, and not a consideration for why his son took the Florida job), & also them not even reporting some very important facts that would make ND look better. For example w/ the Fr. Malloy comments, everyone on ESPN has had their panties in a bunch about how he was "locked out of the decision to fire Willingham, even though he's the president" What they have FAILED to mention is that several years ago Fr. Malloy was locked out of the decision-making process regarding the football program COMPLETELY b/c it was felt he didn't care enough about the program. He didn't get a say b/c HE WASN'T SUPPOSED TO GET A SAY, not b/c he's retiring.

& then their practices regarding their color commentary are just atrocious. When you do real commentary, you're supposed to bring people in w/ opposing views, so they could have say, Fred Wilbon on to attack Notre Dame, and that's fine. But if they want to be considered fair & balanced, they have to counter him w/ someone who believes in ND Football and that they will return to prominence. Tony Kornheiser doesn't friggin count!!!! Yeah, he likes ND, but he knows NOTHING ABOUT IT! I mean, he wanted them to re-hire Willingham for God's sakes b/c he actually thinks he's a good coach. God I hate ESPN.

 

[NDLyght37]

LOL...how could anyone hate PTI? Best 30 minutes on television.

Now, Around The Horn...that's another story.

But like I said, ESPN is all about the story. All day on the radio and on the website, they've been talking up Weis to mostly positive reviews. I just think the University gave a "loaded gun" to an organization that wasn't afraid to "shoot" (the media).

 

[BigIrish]

Exactly. Enough said. It's pretty safe to say we can put this issue to bed. Notre Dame has a new coach, and it's not ESPN, so I think we're in the clear now...

 

[Aerosmith777]

Hehe, normally I actually like PTI, which is why I watch it. But between Wilbon's biases against the Irish and Kornheiser's obvious ignorance of the facts when he defends them, they just piss me off when they talk about that subject.

You're right though, Around the Horn is terrible no matter what they're talking about.

 

[Rip Rap]

It does seem like the words 'dream job' uttered from Weis' mouth tamed the wolves a little.

 

[NDLyght37]

Now ESPN can get back to what they do best...Promote such exciting movies as "3", "Hustle", and "The Junction Boys". Times like this make me glad I bought the Playmakers DVD.

 

[Irish Envy]

Now ESPN can get back to what they do best...Promote such exciting movies as "3", "Hustle", and "The Junction Boys". Times like this make me glad I bought the Playmakers DVD.

I don't know if this was sarcasm or serious, but ESPN has put out some damn good movies... or at least enjoyable.

 

[onedomer]

Not sure how many of you saw "3" but what a bunch of crap! (I know this isn't an ND issue but hey crap is crap!)

I live in NC and work across the street from Dale Earnhardt Chevrolet so I have heard the "true" life story of the man from the people that knew him best. I think Theresa Earnhardt must have been the head writter for this project because it made her look like an angel....whew is THAT off the mark!

 

[onedomer]

Sorry, meant to say Head WRITER! I'm not sure what a writter is!