I want a Ty for Xmas !!!

[FreshieLovesND]

All I want for Xmas is Ty back at Notre Dame. He was wrongly ousted and for this I am an upset Notre Dame fan. this is going to put Brady Quinn back at square one and with him having a productive year, this is not good. The problem was not our offense, the problem was a horrible secondary. The secondary is to blame for all of this hassle.

Ty was a great coach that should not have even been here if it was not for George O'Leary's stupidity. A second chance for Notre Dame to redeem themselves and hire a black coach. Well, they did and he should get a chance at fulfilling his contract, win or lose !!! You never heard of athletes with problems off the field or any of them in the news for negative actions. This team could have been better, but they were all growing with Ty and he should have had a longer stay.

Thanks for listening and please reply !!!

 

[Irish Envy]

Why are people trying to turn this into a thing of race? Just curious?

 

[NDLyght37]

Why are people trying to turn this into a thing of race? Just curious?

IMO, I can't understand why anyone would say race was not a factor in this situation. In America, race is always a factor. It might not be the main deciding factor, but let's not act like it doesn't play a part.
Tyrone Willingham was not fired because he is Black...but he certainly wasn't granted the opportunities that many of his colleagues get.

It's all about equal opportunity. Why do most Black coaches struggle...because they get the worst jobs. Black coaches are at a disadvantage because they are not inherently hooked into the coaching network that a lot of their White counterparts are. Major programs only turn to a Black head coach when their progam is terrible on the field (like Miss. State), or they're going through a public relations scandal (like Notre Dame was 3 years ago). Sylvester Croom was the most qualified candidate to coach at Alabama, but yet they gave the job to a young White coach because of his legacy (AKA who his daddy is). Ty Willingham was showing progress at ND, yet he got canned because the university fell in love with a coach that looked more like them. As much as I liked Willingham, did the majority of the ND faithful really embrace him like we would have if he was George O'Leary (or even Bob Davie)?

I think the message being sent to aspiring Black, Hispanic or Asian coaches is this: If you aren't connected with the "good ol' boys network", you will suffer for it.

The House Of Mutumbo & LaPhonso.

 

[Irish Envy]

I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

As with anything in life, it is who you know. I've gotten my last 4 real world jobs because of who I knew, not because of what I know. If Croom would have been that legacy and still black, you can bet your ass he still gets the job, no?

Regardless, I'm a firm believer that people drop the race card when they have nothing solid to stand on, or at least that is what I've been privy to in my real world dealings. I think Ty was a great guy and a mediocre coach, oh yeah, and he was black... but it wasn't Ty was a black coach, a great guy and a mediocre coach.

It's 2004, I just don't think people think like that anymore. I could be wrong. Bottom line is if Ty beats USC or at least loses a close game, I think he's here next season. The fact that he stood somber on the sideline as USC absolutely laid an asswhippin' on the Irish didn't bode well for him.

Again, just my take.

 

[NDLyght37]

I can sort of see it from your point of view, but as a Black guy it resonates with me a little more I guess.

I just think that if the University had been honest and said that Ty had done a decent job, but he wasn't who they wanted, that would have been one thing. But listening to White at his press conference was ridiculous. he praised Ty for 80% of the conference (character, coaching, and graduation rate), then in effect he said he wasn't living up to the legacy of ND football. The only thing that annoyed me about the firing was that Ty basically saved the university from embarrasment after O'Leary-gate, then he wasn't given adequate time (IMO) to build his program. He should have gotten 4 years (one full recruiting class) to do his thing and if he didn't get the job done then fire him.

I don't think ND was being racist by firing Ty...but the hiring system as is doesn't look good for a Black coach trying to break in as a head coach. I think if you have two coaches (one White, one Black) with equal credentials & potential vying for the same job, the White coach is the easier pick for 99% of the colleges & universities out there...but that doesn't always make him the right pick.

The House Of LaPhonso...est. 1990

 

[Vince Young]

...the problem was a horrible secondary. The secondary is to blame for all of this hassle.

Yes, the secondary deserves a lot of blame. I agree.

Now... who is to blame for the secondary?

Just playin' devil's advocate.

 

[NDLyght37]

Yes, the secondary deserves a lot of blame. I agree.

Now... who is to blame for the secondary?

The gentleman coaching us in the Insight Bowl.

 

[GoinIrishSince85]

What class is our secondary full of? With the exception of Tommy Zbikowski and Freddie Parish, these guys are seniors (Jackson, Ellick, Goolsby, etc...) and were recruited by Coach Bob Davie. Once again, the Davie era haunts the Irish. Davie had some good recruits, but, like Holiday didn't fit into the Willingham offense, maybe Baer's a speed defense guy, and we obviously didn't have that. Yeah, there aren't as many ways to run a defense as there are to run an offense, but you can gauge them around speed and/or power and while we had power, we lacked speed. Considering we have 9 seniors on defense when it came to starting, Ty had only one or two of his recruits out there. Do I think the university made a mistake by firing him now? Absolutely, and all these fans out there are obviously forgetting (or never recognized and therefore were never true Irish fans) Notre Dame's long-standing tradition, and sadly it seems the university itself has gone against what Notre Dame used to stand for. I cannot express how disappointed I am right now with the administration and Kevin White. Tyrone Willingham, in my opinion, was the best guy they could've gotten 3 years ago and he should have been given 5 years to work his program in. It takes time to do things like that, and, for whatever reason, the university wasn't willing to be patient. Now, we're no better than the Floridas, the Nebraskas, or the USCs. We care about winning and only winning. Too bad there's more to life then that.

 

[Vince Young]

The gentleman coaching us in the Insight Bowl.

Good answer!

Now, who is to blame for Kent Baer being the defensive coordinator?

 

[andfan1]

I think losing by 31 points to Southern Cal 3 straight years, having quarterbacks have career days time after time, losing to Boston College 3 times in a row, losing by more than 21 points 8 times in 3 years, losing to BYU to start the season, losing to Pitt, in the final minute, losing to BC the last 2 years in the final minute, all might have had something to do with the desicion, not the color of a mans skin. The only color that mattered here was the color green, as in money. The inconsistency, the wide margin of defeats and the lack of big bowl games were the deciding factor. Nothing else.

 

[bmf175]

The Fact

The Fact

The fact is that this is Notre Dame!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Willingham was hired to win football games. Thats why he was given a contract by Notre Dame, to coach footabll, not to be a good guy.

If he fails to win games at Notre Dame than he himself is in breech of the contract. And I feel it is a good reason to fire him.

I agree when svobda said The only time people bring up the race thing is when they have no solid ground to stand on. Like the whole reason the BCA is around is BS. Im Asian and you know what I dont care if there are not any asian coachs who Cares? And you know what the whole thing that " if there were a white coach and a Black coach going for a job and both were equal, the white coach would get it" that is a bunch of BS as well. You know why because no coach has an equal ,there are no coachs out there that have the same experience and credentials.

I think people that constantly cry about things not going their way are ignorant. By choice not by lack of education.

The fact is willingham sucked.... Haven't you been watching Notre Dame play these past couple of years? They have been blown out more in the last three years than ever in history!!!!!!!!!! Not to mention They've lost to BC and USC Pitt and BYU teams they usually never lose to....

People get hired to do a job. And the employers know what color you are when they hire you. If you do not do the job you get fired. Its like that for people of every color. All of the world.....

 

[AlbuquerqueIrishFan]

Hey FreshieLovesND,

Here's a reply. Ty was fired because he didn't win. We got blown out by USC 3 years in a row. And in previous years under Ty, there were horrible loses to Michigan, Florida St., Purdue, Syracuse, etc. We were crushed and it wasn't just the secondary. Our offense wasn't doing very well. Our receivers were underachievers and the recruiting wasn't what I expected of Ty. I supported Ty when he was hired and up to the end of this season. Then we lost to Pitt and I was after his head. Then we get blown out by USC...too much embarrassment and the head coach carries that responsibility. And against BYU, how could we be unprepared having the months of preparation? Our secondary is deplorable, but Ty just didn't get the "Ws". Two more years of losing under Ty just doesn't cut it for me. And the fact that Urban Meyer is available basically acted as a catylst for the early termination of his contract. I liked Tyrone Willingham...a lot. Especially the way he conducted himself and the team, but there has to be accountability on the part of the head coach when a team struggles and is so inconsistent from week to week. This team lost to BYU, Pitt and B.C., but still managed to beat Michigan and Tennessee. That reflects sufficient talent to win, but not enough preparation or guidance to consistently succeed. The blowout to USC was too much-if Ty wins that game, he gets another year or two, but it didn't happen. I wish him the best, but I'm looking to Meyer now.

 

[AlbuquerqueIrishFan]

Why are people trying to turn this into a thing of race? Just curious?

If ND had some prejudice against Ty because he is black then they wouldn't have hired him in the first place. Ty lost many game in a horrifice fashion and with Urban Meyer be available, that acted at a catylist to fire Ty before the end of his contract.

 

[AlbuquerqueIrishFan]

Hey bmf175,

Norm Chow, the offensive coordinator as USC just might be the first major Asian American head coach. Standford is looking to rip him fom the Trojans. The more diversity, the better. If I were Asian, I'd like the possibility of Norm Chow breaking that barrier down and possibly opening up the door for other Asian American head coaches. Of course, you may already know this by now.

 

[NDLyght37]

Good answer!

Now, who is to blame for Kent Baer being the defensive coordinator?

That would be Ty.

I think he was too reliant on his old staff from Stanford. I'm not a big fan of Baer or Diedrick. But I think if White had told Ty to fire them, Ty would have left on principal. It's an admirable thing to do, but you don't win games by being admirable.

 

[NDLyght37]

I agree when svobda said The only time people bring up the race thing is when they have no solid ground to stand on. Like the whole reason the BCA is around is BS. Im Asian and you know what I dont care if there are not any asian coachs who Cares? And you know what the whole thing that " if there were a white coach and a Black coach going for a job and both were equal, the white coach would get it" that is a bunch of BS as well. You know why because no coach has an equal ,there are no coachs out there that have the same experience and credentials.

The fact is willingham suckThey have been blown out more in the last three years than ever in history!!!!!!!!!! Not to mention They've lost to BC and USC Pitt and BYU teams they usually never lose to....
ed.... Haven't you been watching Notre Dame play these past couple of years?
People get hired to do a job. And the employers know what color you are when they hire you. If you do not do the job you get fired. Its like that for people of every color.

My Asian brother, if you don't think there is a need for the BCA you are sorely mistaken.

The bottom line is that the BCA exsits because for hundreds of years coaching has been "the good ol' boys network". If you don't look like them, you can't get in. It took us until 2004 to get a Black head coach in the SEC, is that what you call fair?

And I hope you are just as vitriolic ($5 word...lol) if Urban Meyer stumbles just a bit like Ty did. To say that he sucked is crazy. Have YOU been watching the games on the field. 10-2 in year one, a terrible second year, but this year we beat Michigan and Tennessee. I believe that every team that beat us is headed to a bowl game, so we didn't lose to chumps.

And I'm so glad that apparently you have never experienced any racial profiling or discrimination, but unfortunately that's not the America that I live in.

 

[Guest]

Ty was fired because he was a bad recruiter, and an even worse coach. Look at julius Jones. He should of been named the starting running back way before the fifth game of the year. Julius should not have been splitting carries with Grant. If Julius Starts and gets alot of carries from the beginning of the season I bet you he could of been a heismen candidate. his final numbers were great and he wasn't the starter until the fifth game. Willingham could of rided Julius for an extra win or two last year, having a winning season.
Race was not an issue here. Although I think it may be on a grand scale in college football. 2 black coaches out of 117 division 1 schools speaks for itself. The NFL is there. College will get there too. Although some schools in certain parts of the country, particularly the South are far behind and won't see black coaches in a long time.

 

[irishtexan]

All I want for Xmas is Ty back at Notre Dame. He was wrongly ousted and for this I am an upset Notre Dame fan. this is going to put Brady Quinn back at square one and with him having a productive year, this is not good. The problem was not our offense, the problem was a horrible secondary. The secondary is to blame for all of this hassle.

Ty was a great coach that should not have even been here if it was not for George O'Leary's stupidity. A second chance for Notre Dame to redeem themselves and hire a black coach. Well, they did and he should get a chance at fulfilling his contract, win or lose !!! You never heard of athletes with problems off the field or any of them in the news for negative actions. This team could have been better, but they were all growing with Ty and he should have had a longer stay.

Thanks for listening and please reply !!!

What the ****? What are you saying? The secondary didnt lose all our games, yeah they sucked but they were on the field more than half the game because the offense was so freakin inconsistent. And you should be happy Meyer is coming and has years to work with Brady Quinn, look at what he did with Alex Smith, that guys in the running for the Heisman. And the University could not afford to have 2 more seasons as a mediocre football team. Recruiting would have suffered even worse than it already is. This wasnt the right atmosphere for Ty. I think he wanted to go also.

 

[Guest]

\ This wasnt the right atmosphere for Ty. I think he wanted to go also.[/QUOTE]

I agree, I don't think Ty was excited about coaching ND. He's not an ND guy. He'll have plenty of other coaching opportunities, and he knows it.

 

[NDLyght37]

Apparently Joe Paterno is high on Willingham.

Even though he's not a Penn State guy, could Ty work in Happy Valley?

 

[Guest]

Apparently Joe Paterno is high on Willingham.

Even though he's not a Penn State guy, could Ty work in Happy Valley?

Yeah, he likes Ty. From what I hear he wants someone from his staff to coach the team. probably so he can have a big say in what is done. If I'm Ty I'd rather coach Washington, i wouldn't want Joe Pa breathing down my neck. Penn State is a real pressure job, I think Ty has had enough of that with ND.

 

[bmf175]

Albuquerqueirishfan,
Yeah I heard Norm Chow is being considered for acouple different jobs. I think that is great but at the same time I dont feel anymore excited for him because he is asian or whatever other race is out there. I think that is great because he has coached some awesome QBs during his time and he worked to get the recognition.


NDLyght37,
Honestly....Who cares? You know why there are not that many black coaches in Div IA? Because there not that many black head coaches in the country capable of coaching at that level. Im sure you can name off 20 different black coaches that you THINK can coach at this level. The bottom line is the ratio is not favoravle to black coaches. And it is not going to change for awhile.
Of course the chances of Urban stumbling when he first starts out is good. He will be a better coach than Willingham and Davie. Thats why ND fired Willingham, even Willingham knows that. And well I guess I am high or crazy as you would say because you know what WILLINGHAM SUCKS!!!!!! Do I think he is a bad person of course not. He is a moral man with standards I respect him as a person.
We beat Michigan yes but to say we were better than tennesse is stupid everybody that knows football knows that we should have lost that game. You think every team that beat us is good you must be on crack. After BYU beat us they lost like the next 5 games of their season. Maybe the only reason some of these teams are going to a bowl game is because they did beat us when they shouldn't have.
I think you have the Willingham virus (its been going around these days) you think being mediocore and average is good and that there are exceptions and good reasons for being so. But you know what......Nobody else that knows the ND standard is buying it. Thats why Ty is out.(Don't worry we have the cure.......Urban Meyer)

Ill tell you what I just got out of the Army after spending 6.5 years as an army ranger and a year in special forces. If you think I don't know what it fells like to be the minority you are are on crack. Out of about 1000 army rangers in my Bat. there were maybe 30 black rangers and about 15 asian rangers. The last thing on my mind when I was in, was to start a group that CRIED and COMPLAINED that there were not enough minority rangers. No, I do believe there is a "Good ol Buddy System" out there but instead of complaining for fair representation I out did all my peers to get ahead.

The BCA (coming from an asian/pacific islander or "minority" if you prefer) Sucks!!!!!!! Along with BET!!!!!! I am very tolerant of other cultures and races but, Are you serious?????? And you think it is fair that minorities can get away with this???? Bill Cosby is actually a personal hero of mine (not only did he make the Fat Albert cartoons) But one thing he believes in is that black people hold themselves back. And they have nobody to blame but themselves for there short comings. If you take his words and apply it to life it makes a great deal of sense.

You know what maybe its not the world you live in thats the problem........maybe its your perception of the world you live in.

but we well as always, have to agree to disagree,.

 

[NDLyght37]

NDLyght37,
Honestly....Who cares? You know why there are not that many black coaches in Div IA? Because there not that many black head coaches in the country capable of coaching at that level. Im sure you can name off 20 different black coaches that you THINK can coach at this level. The bottom line is the ratio is not favoravle to black coaches. And it is not going to change for awhile.
Of course the chances of Urban stumbling when he first starts out is good. He will be a better coach than Willingham and Davie. Thats why ND fired Willingham, even Willingham knows that. And well I guess I am high or crazy as you would say because you know what WILLINGHAM SUCKS!!!!!! Do I think he is a bad person of course not. He is a moral man with standards I respect him as a person.
We beat Michigan yes but to say we were better than tennesse is stupid everybody that knows football knows that we should have lost that game. You think every team that beat us is good you must be on crack. After BYU beat us they lost like the next 5 games of their season. Maybe the only reason some of these teams are going to a bowl game is because they did beat us when they shouldn't have.
I think you have the Willingham virus (its been going around these days) you think being mediocore and average is good and that there are exceptions and good reasons for being so. But you know what......Nobody else that knows the ND standard is buying it. Thats why Ty is out.(Don't worry we have the cure.......Urban Meyer)

Ill tell you what I just got out of the Army after spending 6.5 years as an army ranger and a year in special forces. If you think I don't know what it fells like to be the minority you are are on crack. Out of about 1000 army rangers in my Bat. there were maybe 30 black rangers and about 15 asian rangers. The last thing on my mind when I was in, was to start a group that CRIED and COMPLAINED that there were not enough minority rangers. No, I do believe there is a "Good ol Buddy System" out there but instead of complaining for fair representation I out did all my peers to get ahead.

The BCA (coming from an asian/pacific islander or "minority" if you prefer) Sucks!!!!!!! Along with BET!!!!!! I am very tolerant of other cultures and races but, Are you serious?????? And you think it is fair that minorities can get away with this???? Bill Cosby is actually a personal hero of mine (not only did he make the Fat Albert cartoons) But one thing he believes in is that black people hold themselves back. And they have nobody to blame but themselves for there short comings. If you take his words and apply it to life it makes a great deal of sense.

You know what maybe its not the world you live in thats the problem........maybe its your perception of the world you live in.

but we well as always, have to agree to disagree,.

LOL...where to start, where to start?

First of all, it's about opportunity, and the sad fact is, the opportunity is not out there for minority coaches at major programs.

Second, I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid, or suffering from the "Willingham Virus". The bottom line is an honorable man was fired before he had a chance to coach a full recruiting class. Ty should have had 4 years...no more, no less. But then again, he was merely average with a very tough schedule and not terrorizing the MWC.

Finally, I firmly agree with Dr. Cosby. There are a lot of counterproductive things that Black people do. But that does not change the fact that even in 2004, there are a lot of racist and predjudiced people in positions of power who will never allow a person of color to acheive success.

 

[Vince Young]

Although some schools in certain parts of the country, particularly the South are far behind and won't see black coaches in a long time.

Yeah, like Mississippi State. We'll NEVER see a black head coach there, nosireebob!

 

[Vince Young]

But then again, he was merely average with a very tough schedule and not terrorizing the MWC.

Heh. Good post, but to be fair, Ty Willingham lost to BYU, while Urban Meyer beat them. :smilewink

 

[NDLyght37]

Heh. Good post, but to be fair, Ty Willingham lost to BYU, while Urban Meyer beat them. :smilewink

Oh, no doubt. I'm not trashing UM in any way, but I think anyone who thinks ND will go 10-2 next year is a bit dellusional. And even if he goes to 10-2, Ty did that in his first year. I want Meyer to work, but let's not assume that 11-0 at Utah = a National Championship at ND.

 

[bmf175]

LOL...where to start, where to start?

First of all, it's about opportunity, and the sad fact is, the opportunity is not out there for minority coaches at major programs.

Second, I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid, or suffering from the "Willingham Virus". The bottom line is an honorable man was fired before he had a chance to coach a full recruiting class. Ty should have had 4 years...no more, no less. But then again, he was merely average with a very tough schedule and not terrorizing the MWC.

Finally, I firmly agree with Dr. Cosby. There are a lot of counterproductive things that Black people do. But that does not change the fact that even in 2004, there are a lot of racist and predjudiced people in positions of power who will never allow a person of color to acheive success.

And what I am saying is that people do not deserve an opportunity just because they are a minority or because there are only 2 black coaches in Div I footaball. They deserve an opportunity because they have showed that they DESERVE to be a coach.
And the BCA sending out report cards to all colleges grading them on how often they consider a black coach. I think there are more important things in the world to focus on than the black to white coaches ratio.

OK lets give WILLINGHAM a chance to turn out an even worse recruiting class than all previous years. Alot of the HS players lost by ND are because of the lack of recruiting skills of the ND staff. You have players that are thinking about playing for ND and they just stop calling them for whatever reason. The player ends up going to another power house.
The more behind in recruiting ND gets the longer its going to take for the next coach to get the skill level up enough to compete against the big teams.
They made the right decision to get rid of TY.

And yes discrimination and prejudice is everywhere. You can tell the character and attitude of sombody by how they respond to it.

Don't be a victim all your life. Get up stand up . Stand up for your rights.
Dont cry and complain.

 

[Vince Young]

I'm not trashing UM in any way...

That's okay, I'll be glad to do so myself.

-Ineffective as receivers coach at Notre Dame
-Only 4 years of head coaching experience
-Spotty record against ranked opponents
-Extremely weak schedule
-Once lost to Division 1-AA South Florida as Bowling Green's coach

Remember... "Urban Legends" are almost always false.

 

[NDLyght37]

bmf175,

2 Points:
- Someone doesn't deserve an opportunity because they are a minority...but they also shouldn't be excluded from that opportunity because of their race.
- Although the record was 6-5, can you honestly say that the team wasn't improved? Walker & Quinn are All-Americans in the making, and Fasano's playing exceptionally well. There are holes (the secondary, lack of overall team speed), but Willingham was making progress, and I think Ty deserved one more season.

Finally, these are some of the best thoughts I've seen about the lack of minorities in college coaching:
"In an enlightened, color-blind society, those numbers (only 2 Black coaches out of 117 positions) wouldn't matter. But they do matter, otherwise we wouldn't have celebrated the hiring of Sylvester Croom as the SEC's first African-American head football coach. And all that took was 67 years.

A prominent athletic director for a BCS-conference program once told me that the pool of qualified minority candidates for head coaching positions wasn't as deep as you'd think. Perhaps not, but I've seen plenty of unqualified non-minority coaches get their chances, and promptly do career face plants.

You can't tell me that the African-American candidate pool, however shallow, isn't worth a dip of the toe. And as simplistic as it might sound, it's time for independent-minded athletics directors and university presidents to do the right thing. After all, there is no logical, legitimate, justifiable explanation why there are only two -- two! -- minority head coaches."

--Gene Wojciechowski, ESPN.Com