My take on the state of Notre Dame Football

[DCirishfan]

So tell me, how can we reach your standards in recruiting?

I don't know, I am not a recruiter. Clearly you like the recruiting efforts and the coaching efforts so good for you.

 

[palinurus]

Well let me say this, the recruiting has been adequate but not outstanding IMO. The coaching has been plain bad.

I think the recruiting has been better than "adequate." Top 10 to 15 classes is pretty good considering the team has been good but not great.

 

[BurningRiver]

No doubt but I think that is some wishful thinking too. We will be younger on the Oline for sure with a QB starting with little to no experience. Not sticking with Crist or just rolling with AH was a losing deal all the way around.

But, here's hoping you are right. Because if you are not we are in some deep doo doo.

I'm not saying we will definitively be better, but in theory it is better to have 4 good receivers who get the ball equally than 1 dominant receiver who the QB focuses on. I'm not saying that we'll be better on offense next year, because I don't think we will be, but in the long run we'll be fine I think

 

[irish o'phile]

Good post. I agree with you, but I also thought ND would compete for a BCS bowl this year, so I wouldn't put much stock in my opinion.

ND needs..

A QB that can run and keep the D honest
Corners that can cover
To cut down on turnovers
An offense that is fast paced and not contaminated by Tommy EnuREESis

If ND keeps the current recruiting class, and Golson is legit, all of the above listed issues can be improved upon to a degree. I know the secondary will be young, but could it be any worse than it was this year?

 

[IrishGlory]

Having an explosive and athletic QB in Golson will free up receivers and the run game!!! Why dont people understand that!? This offense is supposed to be fast and dynamic! So many ND fans dont realize tha we havent see this yet? We haven't seen how this offense is really supposed to click. We dont have our dynamic, playmaker under center yet. Just wait until the Golson show comes to town.

^^^ This. I'm not sure many people are considering that this is a huge missing piece of the puzzle that Rees simply does not possess. Rees is a great kid and pretty darn good QB at times. It's plain to see that his skillset simply does fit this offensive scheme.

 

[WaveDomer]

Well let me say this, the recruiting has been adequate but not outstanding IMO. The coaching has been plain bad.

What do you think our record is this year without last year's recruits?

 

[johnnykillz]

What do you think our record is this year without last year's recruits?

That's really an impossible question to answer as its nearly impossible to have made a decent practice without last years newcomers...?

Do you mean the impact new guys?

 

[WaveDomer]

That's really an impossible question to answer as its nearly impossible to have made a decent practice without last years newcomers...?

Do you mean the impact new guys?

I know it's an impossible question. My point is mainly that ND had freshman that made major impacts on games. So, in my mind, the recruiting is good. Just asked the question to get him to think about recruiting from a different angle.

 

[BurningRiver]

Regarding recruiting, I think Kelly and his staff have been doing a great job. When Kelly arrived at ND what didn't we have? A good defense. What do we have now? A good defense. It says something when the defensive line starting in your bowl game, giving up something like 1.7 YPC, is made up entirely of 1st year starters. Kelly has recruited defense extremely well. He had to focus on defense when he arrived here because that was the major weakpoint of the team. Now our weak point is offense, and I have faith in Kelly to turn in some good offensive classes too. It's just a matter of time.

And wasn't one of Kelly's calling cards before coming here his ability to turn 3 star talent into impact playmakers? Maybe he won't need top-5 recruiting classes to find playmakers. We just have to see.

 

[DCirishfan]

I will back off the recruiting, you guys are right I am a bit off on that. Just mad.

 

[WaveDomer]

I will back off the recruiting, you guys are right I am a bit off on that. Just mad.

Understandable.

 

[johnnykillz]

I will back off the recruiting, you guys are right I am a bit off on that. Just mad.

We all mad bro...

 

[DillonHall]

Good post. I agree with you, but I also thought ND would compete for a BCS bowl this year, so I wouldn't put much stock in my opinion.

ND needs..

A QB that can run and keep the D honest
Corners that can cover
To cut down on turnovers
An offense that is fast paced and not contaminated by Tommy EnuREESis

If ND keeps the current recruiting class, and Golson is legit, all of the above listed issues can be improved upon to a degree. I know the secondary will be young, but could it be any worse than it was this year?

Remember the secondary in 2009?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Remember the secondary in 2009?

I remember Sergio Brown being the worst player in Notre Dame history. The Patriots deserve that jamoke.

 

[Wolverine1997]

This kind of reminds me of Lloyd Carr's first two years.

In 1995 and 1996, he went 9-4 and 8-4 with two bowl losses, two straight losses to northwestern and everyone was calling for his head. NW won the Big Ten in both '95 and '96, but still, if you lose to northwestern regardless of how good they are, people do not like it because they're northwestern. But I could see progress with two straight upset wins against #2 ohio, and I laughed at those wanting a coaching change.

Then came 1997, and well, the rest is history.

Not saying that's gonna happen, but keep the hope. By all means, if ND does anything worse than 8-4 next season, then I can see people calling for kelly's head.

6-6. Book it.

IMO, if that happens he's gone. The only positive thing to take out of ND's season this year, is that they crushed state.

 

[irish o'phile]

Remember the secondary in 2009?

I have already worked through that in therapy. Per my therapist's advice, I need to let go of the past, and focus on processing current trauma.

 

[palinurus]

yeah, I've maintained that if Kelly could win at Cincy recruiting top 80s and 90s classes, he should do just fine with the talent ND helps you recruit, even adjusting for the additional pressure and schedule quality Kelly faces at ND (as opposed to Cincy). We all would like a few more five stars (and probably need some, if you want to really be elite), and once they start to pull 10 win seasons, they'll get them.

 

[DillonHall]

yeah, I've maintained that if Kelly could win at Cincy recruiting top 80s and 90s classes, he should do just fine with the talent ND helps you recruit, even adjusting for the additional pressure and schedule quality Kelly faces at ND (as opposed to Cincy). We all would like a few more five stars (and probably need some, if you want to really be elite), and once they start to pull 10 win seasons, they'll get them.

When do you figure we'll start winning ten games a season?

 

[johnnykillz]

yeah, I've maintained that if Kelly could win at Cincy recruiting top 80s and 90s classes, he should do just fine with the talent ND helps you recruit, even adjusting for the additional pressure and schedule quality Kelly faces at ND (as opposed to Cincy). We all would like a few more five stars (and probably need some, if you want to really be elite), and once they start to pull 10 win seasons, they'll get them.

We got faith oh yes we do, they got DR.



Intangibles are the thing we must have and holding together this class of recruits will grant us the mobility to do many big things...

I await the signed letters of intent.

 

[anarin]

Kelly was a QB away from having this team being top 10. Going into 2012, I will be shocked if it is Rees. Kelly's offense needs a QB who can run, not a QB who can just pass, or a QB who is run first pass second. Sadly I feel like Hendrix is more of a run oriented QB, and I feel like we are going to see redshirt freshman Everett Golson start next year. Will there be growing pains? Maybe. Will it be better long term, and better for the team right away? Absolutely. Whomever Kelly picks to start, I will support that decision, even if it is Rees; however, I will be shocked if Golson doesn't at least get a chance at playing early and often.

I'll keep saying it until I am proven wrong. I see our QB future close to this.

 

[DCirishfan]

LOL I didn't need any Carr reminders today!

 

[Patulski]

I'll keep saying it until I am proven wrong. I see our QB future close to this.

Since football is a team game- though by reading this board you'd think only 1 position matters- here's how many Florida offensive skill position players were drafted by the NFL in the 4 year Tim Tebow era at Florida.

DeShawn Wynn RB
Dallas Baker WR
Andre Caldwell WR
Cornelius Ingram TE
Louis Murphy WR
Percy Harvin WR
Riley Cooper WR
Aaron Hernandez TE

That's 8 skill position players drafted in 4 years, including 5 Wide Receivers.

Notre Dame has had 8 skill position players drafted between the 2005 and 2011 drafts. That's 7 drafts. And four of those 8 skill position players were Tight Ends. We've had only two WR's drafted in those 7 years, compared to Florida having 5 in Tebow's 4 year period.

We're going to add 1 WR this year in Floyd, but who here can say who the next Wide Receiver NFL draftee will be?

You want elite QB play? You better get some elite speed to go with it if it's going to show up against defenses with elite secondary speed.

 

[yankeehater]

The sad thing in reading this board is if it existed 20 years ago we would be reading the exact same posts just with different player's and coach's names. For whatever reason/reasons, and yes there are many, nothing has changed at ND for two decades. Yes, I have seen talent on both sides of the ball but until there is consistent performance on both sides of the ball that results in year in year in out W's we will be reading the same comments in the upcoming years. Wins are all that matter and until they consistently once again win 10 games a season the Herbstreet's and May's of the world will doubt and talk bad about the program. The problem is until the wins come we cannot disagree with their assessment.

 

[palinurus]

When do you figure we'll start winning ten games a season?

Assuming your question is not a rhetorical one, I can see 10-3 in two years or three. Not next year.

 

[SoCalDomer]

Regarding recruiting, I think Kelly and his staff have been doing a great job. When Kelly arrived at ND what didn't we have? A good defense. What do we have now? A good defense. It says something when the defensive line starting in your bowl game, giving up something like 1.7 YPC, is made up entirely of 1st year starters. Kelly has recruited defense extremely well. He had to focus on defense when he arrived here because that was the major weakpoint of the team. Now our weak point is offense, and I have faith in Kelly to turn in some good offensive classes too. It's just a matter of time.

And wasn't one of Kelly's calling cards before coming here his ability to turn 3 star talent into impact playmakers? Maybe he won't need top-5 recruiting classes to find playmakers. We just have to see.

Yes, he's done well addressing the need for elite defensive recruits. In his second class, he loaded up on defensive lineman and big outside linebackers. In his 3rd class, he addressed the defensive backfield with elite safeties and cornerbacks.

But where is it written that to focus on defensive recruiting you have to scrimp on offensive recruiting? The problem with waiting to address offensive talent now is that the recruits have now seen 2-years of anemic offense and it turns them off.

The highest ranked offensive players have been lineman, who take 2-3 years before they even see the field. The most highly rated (i'm referring to 4-star with a rivals ranking of 5.9 or better) skill players were one tight-end (Koyack) and one wide receiver(Greenberry). As of now, both are rated outside the top-50 players for their years.

As far as the myth that Kelly's 3-stars can compete with other teams 4- and 5-stars, how did those 3-stars fair against Florida's defense in Cincinnati's bowl in 2010?

Better yet, with 4- and 5-star offensive players at ND, how did Kelly's offense fair this year against really good defenses like Stanford, USC and Florida State?

At this point, it appears the failure to land a #1 QB, a top 5 RB and more than one top-100 WR are due to the offenses anemic performances, not the other way around. Winning and perception of upward success are very important to recruiting.

Hopefully Kelly's comments in the Trbune article signal that he is aware there is a fundamental problem on offense starting with the head coach. Landing a 5-star whatever isn't going to solve that problem. Solve that problem, then he will start landing 5-star offensive players.

 

[Domer4ever]

Biggest reasons for doubt next season:

Coaching- While Brady Hoke is taking a crap Michigan team to the BCS in his first season with **** Rod's players and cleaning up in recruiting, Brian Kelly is still trying to snowball the ND fanbase into waiting for him to get "his guys" into place before he can be successfull. How much longer are we all willing to wait before we just admit that Kelly is in over his head and stop making excuses for him for the teams poor performances? I could not be less impressed with Kelly through two seasons. While I think he has done well in recruiting, his game day performances as head football coach have left a lot to be desired. I can not think of a single game where I thought to myself, "Damn that was a great call by Kelly." I can not think of a single game where a great coaching decision by Kelly resulted in a Notre Dame victory. I can not think of a single big game where Kelly outschemed the opposition in a victory. In-game adjustments are a foreign concept. His handling of the QB situation has been abysmal. The problems at that position have been as much his doing as it has been about a lack of talent. I have yet to see this offensive genius that sold to Notre Dame when he was hired. Say what you will, but his sideline demeanor and comments to the media were clearly unnecessary distractions this season. The entire offense does not play loose or with any confidence in large part to Kelly and it doesn't take a psychologist to figure that out. This team goes nowhere next season unless Kelly picks his game up and improves. It all starts at the top.

QB position- It's a complete mess and Notre Dame has essentially put all their hopes for next season into Everett Golson being the savior at QB. While Golson certainly looks to be the most talented QB on the roster, he hasn't played a snap of college football yet and this offense will be starting all over from square one again. Hendrix should compete to start but he is also a guy with limited playing experience that nobody has seen enough of to say definitively if he is the answer at QB. Rees is done. He has had his chance and it just didn't work out. He is not a good fit for the offense and his physical limitations are many. My biggest hope is that Kelly just picks the QB that is the best fit to run his offense and just goes with them whether that is Golson or Hendrix and stops with this QB rotation. Whatever the case it is going to be difficult breaking in a new QB against a more difficult schedule.

No Floyd- How do you replace this guy who was essentially the straw that stirred the drink offensively? We got a glimpse of what the offense looked like last night without him and it wasn't pretty. TJ Jones has been inconsistant and has not stepped up despite Floyd drawing all the attention towards himself. Toma is a nice slot receiver. There are going to be a ton of questions at WR next season and who is going to step in and try to fill Floyd's shoes. Right now who that might be is anybodys guess, if there is anybody at all. Davaris Daniels? Greenberry, should he stick with his commitment? Agholor? While talented players, they are unproven and nobody has any idea what they might be capable of at the college level.

Secondary- While I like some of the young talent better then what is leaving, it's a tough schedule to be breaking in a young secondary.

 

[5 Year Plan]

I have grown bearish on BK. He has not impressed me at all. Recruiting is lacking, coaching is lacking. He has been out-coached frequently. Diaco has been the one I think has done the best.

I am starting to think Kelly will not be long for South Bend, pretty sad.

Props to you for being a loyal ND fan.....but your negativity is asinine.

I am going to go out on a limb and say that you are not qualified to evaluate BK with any sort of seriousness in recruiting or coaching.

Love the term "out coached" ....... it has to be mosted over used phrase by internet know it alls.

Now....if someone like Pat Kirwyn or anyone who actually has the know how to back up those statements with things that aren't just random stats or other mindless chatter told me that Brian Kelly has been "out coached" then I might believe them. Internet goons trying to evaluate a D1 coach with a resume like BK's on X's and O's.....gameplans...and recruiting is simply hilarious.

Wait two more seasons.....if the same problems persist then as fans we can start to call for a change. Until then we have no choice but to wait for the personnel to catch up with the system.

 

[5 Year Plan]

Biggest reasons for doubt next season:

Coaching- While Brady Hoke is taking a crap Michigan team to the BCS in his first season with **** Rod's players and cleaning up in recruiting, Brian Kelly is still trying to snowball the ND fanbase into waiting for him to get "his guys" into place before he can be successfull. How much longer are we all willing to wait before we just admit that Kelly is in over his head and stop making excuses for him for the teams poor performances? I could not be less impressed with Kelly through two seasons. While I think he has done well in recruiting, his game day performances as head football coach have left a lot to be desired. I can not think of a single game where I thought to myself, "Damn that was a great call by Kelly." I can not think of a single game where a great coaching decision by Kelly resulted in a Notre Dame victory. I can not think of a single big game where Kelly outschemed the opposition in a victory. In-game adjustments are a foreign concept. His handling of the QB situation has been abysmal. The problems at that position have been as much his doing as it has been about a lack of talent. I have yet to see this offensive genius that sold to Notre Dame when he was hired. Say what you will, but his sideline demeanor and comments to the media were clearly unnecessary distractions this season. The entire offense does not play loose or with any confidence in large part to Kelly and it doesn't take a psychologist to figure that out. This team goes nowhere next season unless Kelly picks his game up and improves. It all starts at the top.

QB position- It's a complete mess and Notre Dame has essentially put all their hopes for next season into Everett Golson being the savior at QB. While Golson certainly looks to be the most talented QB on the roster, he hasn't played a snap of college football yet and this offense will be starting all over from square one again. Hendrix should compete to start but he is also a guy with limited playing experience that nobody has seen enough of to say definitively if he is the answer at QB. Rees is done. He has had his chance and it just didn't work out. He is not a good fit for the offense and his physical limitations are many. My biggest hope is that Kelly just picks the QB that is the best fit to run his offense and just goes with them whether that is Golson or Hendrix and stops with this QB rotation. Whatever the case it is going to be difficult breaking in a new QB against a more difficult schedule.

No Floyd- How do you replace this guy who was essentially the straw that stirred the drink offensively? We got a glimpse of what the offense looked like last night without him and it wasn't pretty. TJ Jones has been inconsistant and has not stepped up despite Floyd drawing all the attention towards himself. Toma is a nice slot receiver. There are going to be a ton of questions at WR next season and who is going to step in and try to fill Floyd's shoes. Right now who that might be is anybodys guess, if there is anybody at all. Davaris Daniels? Greenberry, should he stick with his commitment? Agholor? While talented players, they are unproven and nobody has any idea what they might be capable of at the college level.

Secondary- While I like some of the young talent better then what is leaving, it's a tough schedule to be breaking in a young secondary.

Really using Brady Hoke as an example???.....we had a coach about 7 years ago that took us to 2 consecutive BCS games using Tyrone Willinghams players.

QB position is a mess this year. But I for one am going to trust player development and believe that one of the three (and yes maybe even Tommy Rees) will be a servicable QB to win a lot of games in the next few years. Remember.....they are very young.

It's tough to replace Floyd. But if the we get consistent OB play and spread it around within the system things can still be ok.

Any team in a rebuilding effort like ND is going to have a lot of unknowns.... guys have to develope and step up.

 

[Patulski]

DELETE

 

[5 Year Plan]

The sad thing in reading this board is if it existed 20 years ago we would be reading the exact same posts just with different player's and coach's names. For whatever reason/reasons, and yes there are many, nothing has changed at ND for two decades. Yes, I have seen talent on both sides of the ball but until there is consistent performance on both sides of the ball that results in year in year in out W's we will be reading the same comments in the upcoming years. Wins are all that matter and until they consistently once again win 10 games a season the Herbstreet's and May's of the world will doubt and talk bad about the program. The problem is until the wins come we cannot disagree with their assessment.

If this board were around in 1987 there would be people trying to explain why Lou Holtz is in way over his head.