Thoughts on defending the edge...

[kmoose]

I was thinking about this, this week........... Manti seems to be Diaco's primary LB for blitzing. MLBs are important, for securing the edges of the defense. They are supposed to read the flow of the play, and get to the edge in support. As poorly as the OLBs have been playing, the ILBs have been equally non-existant out there. I'm not a coach, but it seems that Manti is the more athletic ILB, and should be able to get outside quicker. So why not use the other Inside 'backer (Calabrese or Fox) to try to get pressure up the middle, and leave Manti to roam and get outside in support?

Thoughts?

 

[midnightrider28]

Good point. Teo has shown time and time again that he is more than capable of flowing the play and covering TEs and backs in space. I guess because of TEo's hard hitting they want to leave him in the middle in case they shoot up the middle but truthfully with Louis "Nasty Dog" Nix in the middle they shouldnt have to worry about it to much. Or at least in the middle he has the speed to chase down a play if it flows to the outside.

 

[UmphreakDomer]

as good as manti is, even when hobbled. the backers, in general, have been brilliant and awful at times.

if i was wake i wouldve checked into that RB wheel (scoring play) everytime calabrese was on the field.

i think we'll be able to get thru maryland and BC by 10-20 points per game. but, if our entire LB's do not get better in both coverage and health...andrew luck is going to carve us up underneath, just like barkley did.

 

[hack15]

part of the reason the wheel route worked was that flemming missed his bump or knocking off of the route on the running back. if you watch that play again you see him wave as the back went passed him. i'm thinking that this week they will spend a lil time on that in practice. had he got a shouleder onto the back it would have given carlo time to get to his responsibility which was the back.

 

[irishff1014]

It is worth a shot Fox isn't very good in coverage. Manti would match up against most tight ends pretty good.

 

[DillonHall]

You have to think about the risk/reward of blitzing. If you don't get there, you're vulnerable to getting burned. So you better be sending your best blitzer and make sure he gets there if you're going to call a blitz.

 

[Irishman77]

we are extremely overrated at linebacker. However to their defense(pardon the pun) we rarely send an extra defender(blitz) because we cannot handle man to man coverage with our db's.

Once we get our db's developed we will then be able to zone blitz. This will create more confusion and pressure on apposing qb's. Until then we will be very bland on D

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

On the next level I think he is gonna be outside linebacker and yes it has nothing to do with this thread lol sorry.

 

[BobD]

I'm at work so I can't look up the info right now. On paper is Shembo suppose to be our fastest LB?

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

I'm at work so I can't look up the info right now. On paper is Shembo suppose to be our fastest LB?

Ishaq, Niklas, Councell and Spond are all faster. #future #sadthatijustusedtheannoyingtwitterthing

 

[Patulski]

We don't have three, 2-gap controlling down linemen. So, our ILB's have to deal with unblocked guards, and then wide lanes. Watch the USC game for proof.

The other problem is that we don't have tremendously athletic 3-4 OLB's, which is a very difficult position to play: The OLB has to be strong enough to put his hand on the ground in 4 man fronts and attack 6-7 offensive tackles, and fast enough to pursue wide receiver screens and deal with sweeps. Fleming does a nice job, but it's still very tough. Add in drop coverage responsibilities and it is a very hard position. IMO Fleming is a 4-3 weak side defensive end. He is being wasted dropping into coverage and running after wide receiver screens. If you watch the USC game, he did very well against their left tackle-who will be in the NFL next year- during passing downs when we went to 4 down linemen, both beating him in gaps and collapsing the pocket with his strength. But on the edge, with guys that can't handle two gaps, he cannot do much to stop the inside run during 1st down when we play the 3-4, and he struggles getting outside on WR screens.

Against Wake, Diaco ended up playing the same defense that we played in 2006, which was a 4-3 with Slaughter playing the Mike Richardson role replacing Shembo.

I was thinking about this, this week........... Manti seems to be Diaco's primary LB for blitzing. MLBs are important, for securing the edges of the defense. They are supposed to read the flow of the play, and get to the edge in support. As poorly as the OLBs have been playing, the ILBs have been equally non-existant out there. I'm not a coach, but it seems that Manti is the more athletic ILB, and should be able to get outside quicker. So why not use the other Inside 'backer (Calabrese or Fox) to try to get pressure up the middle, and leave Manti to roam and get outside in support?

Thoughts?

 

[Patulski]

Ishaq, Niklas, Councell and Spond are all faster. #future #sadthatijustusedtheannoyingtwitterthing

I really wonder if Spond, Councell and Ishaq will have a better combination of skills as an OLB in the 3-4, or DE when we go to 4 down linemen, than Fleming has. Fleming really is having a good year, but it is very tough to be strong enough to take on 6-7 Offensive Tackles in pass situation, and fast enough to make a difference pursuing wide receiver screens, while dropping into zone coverages. It is both a mentally and physically difficult position to play.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

we are extremely overrated at linebacker. However to their defense(pardon the pun) we rarely send an extra defender(blitz) because we cannot handle man to man coverage with our db's.

Once we get our db's developed we will then be able to zone blitz. This will create more confusion and pressure on apposing qb's. Until then we will be very bland on D

Manti and Flemming are not overrated at LB. T%hey are both very good players.

 

[BobD]

Ishaq, Niklas, Councell and Spond are all faster. #future #sadthatijustusedtheannoyingtwitterthing

#thefutureslookingbright

Thanks for looking that up, I'm on my phone.

What about trying one of them in these next two games at adding pressure up the middle, leaving Manti free to roam?

I'm partial to having Danny Spond get more playing time, he's an awesome young man.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

#thefutureslookingbright

Thanks for looking that up, I'm on my phone.

What about trying one of them in these next two games at adding pressure up the middle, leaving Manti free to roam?

I'm partial to having Danny Spond get more playing time, he's an awesome young man.

Spond's issue is staying healthy.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

We don't have three, 2-gap controlling down linemen. So, our ILB's have to deal with unblocked guards, and then wide lanes. Watch the USC game for proof.

The other problem is that we don't have tremendously athletic 3-4 OLB's, which is a very difficult position to play: The OLB has to be strong enough to put his hand on the ground in 4 man fronts and attack 6-7 offensive tackles, and fast enough to pursue wide receiver screens and deal with sweeps. Fleming does a nice job, but it's still very tough. Add in drop coverage responsibilities and it is a very hard position. IMO Fleming is a 4-3 weak side defensive end. He is being wasted dropping into coverage and running after wide receiver screens. If you watch the USC game, he did very well against their left tackle-who will be in the NFL next year- during passing downs when we went to 4 down linemen, both beating him in gaps and collapsing the pocket with his strength. But on the edge, with guys that can't handle two gaps, he cannot do much to stop the inside run during 1st down when we play the 3-4, and he struggles getting outside on WR screens.

Against Wake, Diaco ended up playing the same defense that we played in 2006, which was a 4-3 with Slaughter playing the Mike Richardson role replacing Shembo.

Good insight. I am curious does the mentality of our defense play a factor. What I mean is that we are not an attacking defense...or at least that is what I have observed. We play a very conservative bend but don't break defense. Are our players too cerebral?

Also why is our LBs are so out of position. Are they not athletic enough to get to their zone positions in time to react to a play? Considering how conservative our defensive approach is, you would think that LBs would be in a position to make plays or hits against crossing receivers. Do you think they are still learning the system? Has it not become instinctual yet?

 

[midnightrider28]

Of the younger backer Ishaq will emerge as the top one. His only problem is this is the first year he has played OLB so he is still adjusting but when he is in he flies to the ball and tries to kill whoever has it. His aggresion can't be coached and that, and his freakish size, make him the standout.

 

[TerryTate]

Ishaq will be very good.

He will be able to put his hand down like Flemming and get more push on the edge.

I think his body type will allow us to show more 4 down fronts and give us more of a rush.

In space, he'll learn. He needs to develop and mature, but he will be an excellent player.

 

[Black Irish]

It's probably too late in the season to make the change, but is the Irish D better off playing a primarily 4-3 set? Honest question, because I really don't know. I have to agree that our D is getting beat up with the short passes, which is a bad flashback to previous years. ND started the season well in that regard, but the past few games, especially USC, those short routes have been killing the Irish. If the LBs can't do short pass coverage effectively, is ND better off playing 4-3 to close gaps and get more QB pressure?

 

[Carlyle Javar Holiday]

I agree that Ishaq will solve a lot of problems as far a setting the edge on one side of the field and increasing sideline to sideline speed.

 

[irishog77]

Good insight. I am curious does the mentality of our defense play a factor. What I mean is that we are not an attacking defense...or at least that is what I have observed. We play a very conservative bend but don't break defense. Are our players too cerebral?

Also why is our LBs are so out of position. Are they not athletic enough to get to their zone positions in time to react to a play? Considering how conservative our defensive approach is, you would think that LBs would be in a position to make plays or hits against crossing receivers. Do you think they are still learning the system? Has it not become instinctual yet?

This is interesting. I'm curious as to why they don't attack more. Watching the games (especially noticing it against Wake this past Saturday), it seems like the LB's and S's will let a 2 yard gain turn into a 4 yard gain-- like they're still playing contain, even in the open field. The Wake game made me believe they are coached to do this. The question is, do they do this because this is a core of the defensive philosophy, or do they do this because the coaches don't want these specific players attacking...but will when they have different personnel on in the field in a couple years?

 

[UmphreakDomer]

This is interesting. I'm curious as to why they don't attack more. Watching the games (especially noticing it against Wake this past Saturday), it seems like the LB's and S's will let a 2 yard gain turn into a 4 yard gain-- like they're still playing contain, even in the open field. The Wake game made me believe they are coached to do this. The question is, do they do this because this is a core of the defensive philosophy, or do they do this because the coaches don't want these specific players attacking...but will when they have different personnel on in the field in a couple years?

i dont really know enough about diaco's defense, from the past. i know some people put big numbers up on cincy. i do have faith in a chuck martin defense though. so with both those guys, i'd say we're in pretty good shape.

 

[obi wan mahoney]

More blitzing might result in more sacks, but our secondary needs all of the help that it can get. Also, our line is getting pressure these days without it...and that is optimal. Now if they can seal the deal and stay on their feet, we'll have a couple extra sacks each game. I was at the Wake game and really liked the way the D played overall.