Quarterback Debate

[IrishInFl]

I hardly think that Coney's offer is actionable after being kicked off the football team.

What did he do anyway?

 

[TerryTate]

What did he do anyway?

Hasn't been reported.

 

[IrishInFl]

Its not really about upside as i have mentioned 4 times now...Its about who we can sign to make our football team better for next season....

J Brissett Fan Club/Band Wagon Heismen 2013, who is in on it?

I'll be on it if we get him, as I never stated that he had more, the same, or less upside than the 2012 QBs.

But I will still ask you, as you correctly stated that your stance was not upside, but who makes the team better, why do you assert that Golson and Brissett will make this team better than the 2012 prospects?

 

[Zibby32]

But I will still ask you, as you correctly stated that your stance was not upside, but who makes the team better, why do you assert that Golson and Brissett will make this team better than the 2012 prospects?

a QB in 2012 is not going to make the team better in 2011...?

As i have been saying all along, we need to take what we can get now...We have not had a great season record-wise and we are still in the mix for some quality prospects....which is good.

I am saying I don't think BKells should sit on his hands and tell these 2011 dual threat QB's that we are really only interested in guys 2 years away....

You don't know what the state of the program will be in a year from now. I think we have all learned that recruiting is A** backwards, and you cant really on anything. So saying so and so is interested in 2012 means a whole lot of nothing.

 

[IrishInFl]

a QB in 2012 is not going to make the team better in 2011...?

As i have been saying all along, we need to take what we can get now...We have not had a great season record-wise and we are still in the mix for some quality prospects....which is good.

I am saying I don't think BKells should sit on his hands and tell these 2011 dual threat QB's that we are really only interested in guys 2 years away....

You don't know what the state of the program will be in a year from now. I think we have all learned that recruiting is A** backwards, and you cant really on anything. So saying so and so is interested in 2012 means a whole lot of nothing.

In what way did I say he should?

 

[Zibby32]

you were obsessed with the abilities of the 2012 guys...I dont know? you kept asking the question if they had more upside...

I am stating its not about upside...

 

[Sherm Sticky]

This thread is out of control and barely anything having to do with Jacoby Brissett.

 

[TerryTate]

This thread is out of control and barely anything having to do with Jacoby Brissett.

You're right, now it's cleaned up

 

[IrishLax]

Thanks TT. That got out of hand in a hurry.

 

[jmurphy75]

Worst case scenario we take one or both of these dual threat QBs and they end up in a receiver position. It's not like we haven't seen that happen in the realm of college football, both of these guys are talented athletes and isn't that what we're in need of?

 

[CanadianIrish]

Here's the issue with taking on more scholarship quarterbacks now. The argument in favour of it is take the best talent, we need to be better now.

The problem with that is either: (a) they are red shirting and aren't helping now, or (b) if they are they best talent and can help next year we're screwed anyways.

What I'm suggesting is build for the long term and have staggered depth at key positions. Having 10 5th year seniors on the two deep for the OL would be awesome - for one year. Then you're hooped. Same with having three or four QBs with four years of eligibility left next year and having good prospects who are interested in coming for the following year. It's not a strategic way to hand out scholarships and it's not going to help with recruiting in the long run to see a huge log jam at a key position.

Brisset may be a different equation, I haven't paid any attention to his recruiting because I didn't think we had a chance. 6-5 running a 4.5 is freakish, and I'll look into him more. But if we need Golston for next year we're in a boatload of trouble.

My understanding of Mauk, Kiel and Crow was that they were top tier talents. Of course there are no rankings out yet, so if that's wrong then it's wrong. But otherwise, poaching QBs from North Carolina when we took a boatload of QBs last year is not exactly high on my list of priorities.

 

[IrishMoore1]

we need to take at least one qb every year because you don't know who will get injured, transfer, leave early for NFL, or simply turn out not to be good.

How do you guys think we ended up in the current qb predicament we are in now? Last spring we had like 1 scholarship qb available to make throws. Why? Because Weis failed to recruit a qb the year after Crist. It is imperative to take at least one qb every year, especially for an offense that is prone to injuries at the qb position.

 

[IrishinSyria]

A: There's no guarantee that any of the 2012 guys will go Irish. If you can get a talented guy now, you have a QB in your system for 5 years. Seems long-term enough to me.

B: I don't know about anybody else, but I'm not ready to hand Matty Mauk a "quarterback of the future" award just yet. He seems to have impressive arm-strength and looks athletic enough, but the system he plays in +the competition he plays against+his complete lack of footwork= huge project. He could do well here, but there are a lot of question marks too. I haven't watched as much film of the other guys, so I don't know about them.

C: I'm also very happy with our current QBs getting some competition. Rees looked decent against Tulsa, but he needs to get a lot stronger if he's going to be able to play against top-tier Ds. Something like 80-90% of his completions were 5 yards or less. As for Hendrix and Massa, nobody knows at this point.

D: 6'5" 4.5 forty. You want that type of athlete on your football team.

 

[IrishLax]

A: There's no guarantee that any of the 2012 guys will go Irish. If you can get a talented guy now, you have a QB in your system for 5 years. Seems long-term enough to me.

B: I don't know about anybody else, but I'm not ready to hand Matty Mauk a "quarterback of the future" award just yet. He seems to have impressive arm-strength and looks athletic enough, but the system he plays in +the competition he plays against+his complete lack of footwork= huge project. He could do well here, but there are a lot of question marks too. I haven't watched as much film of the other guys, so I don't know about them.

C: I'm also very happy with our current QBs getting some competition. Rees looked decent against Tulsa, but he needs to get a lot stronger if he's going to be able to play against top-tier Ds. Something like 80-90% of his completions were 5 yards or less. As for Hendrix and Massa, nobody knows at this point.

D: 6'5" 4.5 forty. You want that type of athlete on your football team.

I'm ready to crown him. He has too cool of a name to fail.

 

[NDinL.A.]

There is at least a 50% chance that Dayne transfers because of this injury. If he doesn't think he will be 100% by next season, then he will not have the starting job and he I'd expect him to go to a Stanford (or equivalent) with a pro-style offense so that he can still get a good education and at least have a shot at making the pros. Maybe not, but that's what I would do in his shoes if I thought I had a reasonable shot at the NFL.

I guess I'm the only one who has a problem with you saying there is at least a 50% chance that he's transferring. Says who? Where do you get this number from (it sounds as if you are pulling the number out of your you-no-what)? Have any quotes to back this up? If not, then I'd say this thread is a waste of time because I haven't seen one quote, anywhere, in which there is even a hint of him transferring. He is deeply involved in Notre Dame in not only football but athletics and charities as well.

Now, if you have a link stating where he is thinking about laving, then I apologize and I'll delete everything I just said. But if not, then I think it's silly and a waste of time to basically put words into a player's mouth who has said nothing to support it (nothing personal Lax)...

 

[CanadianIrish]

I guess I'm the only one who has a problem with you saying there is at least a 50% chance that he's transferring. Says who? Where do you get this number from (it sounds as if you are pulling the number out of your you-no-what)? Have any quotes to back this up? If not, then I'd say this thread is a waste of time because I haven't seen one quote, anywhere, in which there is even a hint of him transferring. He is deeply involved in Notre Dame in not only football but athletics and charities as well.

Now, if you have a link stating where he is thinking about laving, then I apologize and I'll delete everything I just said. But if not, then I think it's silly and a waste of time to basically put words into a player's mouth who has said nothing to support it (nothing personal Lax)...

As someone who's been slammed pretty hard by lots of people for comments about Dayne, I'm oddly on NDinLA's side here. There hasn't been a hint about him leaving anywhere, and he seems like a really good kid. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he did leave, and I might leave if I were in his shoes, but I'm not the kind of kid he is.

 

[IrishLax]

I guess I'm the only one who has a problem with you saying there is at least a 50% chance that he's transferring. Says who? Where do you get this number from (it sounds as if you are pulling the number out of your you-no-what)? Have any quotes to back this up? If not, then I'd say this thread is a waste of time because I haven't seen one quote, anywhere, in which there is even a hint of him transferring. He is deeply involved in Notre Dame in not only football but athletics and charities as well.

Now, if you have a link stating where he is thinking about laving, then I apologize and I'll delete everything I just said. But if not, then I think it's silly and a waste of time to basically put words into a player's mouth who has said nothing to support it (nothing personal Lax)...

Nothing personal taken. I am pulling those numbers 100% (pun intended) out of my butt. I do have a link, somewhere, to rumors from someone with a connection to him (HS coach?) saying he was considering transferring, but I was more putting himself in his shoes and thinking about what I would do. So yes, it's basically pure conjecture.

What I will say in defense of myself (and this is why the thread isn't as frivolous as you might think on first glance):
My post was originally in response to someone in the Jacoby Brissett thread saying "why are we going after QBs in this class" and I was giving the hypothetical "this is why you get good QBs now if you can and don't wait." However, people then ran with it, got off topic, and TT made it into a new thread. Out of context, I agree with you, my post is basically worthless.

Hope that helps.

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

"Hi, my name is Denard Robinson....I play QB, I run a 4.3 40...I didnt learn how to successfuly throw a football til after my first year in college...!!"

I'm also about to break the single season rushing record for QB's set in 1996 (145 yards needed). And for just learning how to throw it's great to be only 200 yards behind your QB!

 

[IrishinSyria]

I'm also about to break the single season rushing record for QB's set in 1996 (145 yards needed). And for just learning how to throw it's great to be only 200 yards behind your QB!

I think the point was that Robinson is a good example of why "upside" matters... you can teach footwork and throwing motion, but you can't teach speed.

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

I think the point was that Robinson is a good example of why "upside" matters... you can teach footwork and throwing motion, but you can't teach speed.

Then I apologize for my douchey post