Quarterback Debate

[IrishLax]

There is at least a 50% chance that Dayne transfers because of this injury. If he doesn't think he will be 100% by next season, then he will not have the starting job and he I'd expect him to go to a Stanford (or equivalent) with a pro-style offense so that he can still get a good education and at least have a shot at making the pros. Maybe not, but that's what I would do in his shoes if I thought I had a reasonable shot at the NFL.

As such, while it isn't incredibly important that we get a QB in this class, you have to be planning for the future and regardless of how good Hendrix or any of the other guys is you need to be carrying at least 4 QBs on scholarship at all times. Not counting Montana + Dayne transfer would give us three... so we can afford to be a little picky in this class... but we'll really need to take at least 2 from 2011 + 2012.

 

[CanadianIrish]

There is at least a 50% chance that Dayne transfers because of this injury. If he doesn't think he will be 100% by next season, then he will not have the starting job and he I'd expect him to go to a Stanford (or equivalent) with a pro-style offense so that he can still get a good education and at least have a shot at making the pros. Maybe not, but that's what I would do in his shoes if I thought I had a reasonable shot at the NFL.

As such, while it isn't incredibly important that we get a QB in this class, you have to be planning for the future and regardless of how good Hendrix or any of the other guys is you need to be carrying at least 4 QBs on scholarship at all times. Not counting Montana + Dayne transfer would give us three... so we can afford to be a little picky in this class... but we'll really need to take at least 2 from 2011 + 2012.

I agree about the 2 from 2011+2012, but I'd rather take them both next year rather than create a huge bottleneck in the depth chart in terms of experience. Massa and Hendrix are red shirting, which means that if we take anyone either they red shirt too, or we have three QBs next year with four years of eligibility remaining. We're certain to lose at least one, if not two of them. It just seems like a waste of a scholarship to me.

 

[IrishLax]

I agree about the 2 from 2011+2012, but I'd rather take them both next year rather than create a huge bottleneck in the depth chart in terms of experience. Massa and Hendrix are red shirting, which means that if we take anyone either they red shirt too, or we have three QBs next year with four years of eligibility remaining. We're certain to lose at least one, if not two of them. It just seems like a waste of a scholarship to me.

Agreed, especially since the QB prospects from '12 that we will have a shot at look like very promising talents.

 

[rocket31]

I agree about the 2 from 2011+2012, but I'd rather take them both next year rather than create a huge bottleneck in the depth chart in terms of experience. Massa and Hendrix are red shirting, which means that if we take anyone either they red shirt too, or we have three QBs next year with four years of eligibility remaining. We're certain to lose at least one, if not two of them. It just seems like a waste of a scholarship to me.

um, you take the best players available.

if the coaches believe the 2011 prospects project better than the 2012 then you do all you can to get them on board.

btw, brissett and golson have more upside than any prospect on our radar in 2012, including mauk.

 

[IrishInFl]

um, you take the best players available.

if the coaches believe the 2011 prospects project better than the 2012 then you do all you can to get them on board.

btw, brissett and golson have more upside than any prospect on our radar in 2012, including mauk.

Please explain why they have more upside than Mauk, Kiel, Pike, Crow, and Coney.

 

[IrishLax]

Please explain why they have more upside than Mauk, Kiel, Pike, Crow, and Coney.

I was thinking the same thing...

 

[DaBLKIrishman]

Maybe the staff is trying to get in more of a dual threat option at QB for different packages to add to the offense. Because the spread is a lot harder to defend with a mobile QB.

 

[Zibby32]

Originally Posted by IrishInFL
Please explain why they have more upside than Mauk, Kiel, Pike, Crow, and Coney.

Its very simple...you live to play another down!

You cant put too much stock into 2012 QB's, its 2010. You have to jump at an opportunity to get a player who you think can start at your college. Do you really think BKells is sitting there thinking, "actually J Brissett, we might get some good looking guys in 2012 so don't bother..?"

Are you out of your mind??? ahha....we could lose more games this year and any 2012 players wont even interested! you have to strike when the iron is hot, this offense is desperate for a dual threat QB.

 

[fitz_bu47]

I trust our coaching staff.......plus I would love to see this offense w/ a 6'4"-6'-5" 220-230lb QB that runs a 4.5, that is a scary thought (for other teams.)

 

[aubeirish]

I trust our coaching staff.......plus I would love to see this offense w/ a 6'4"-6'-5" 220-230lb QB that runs a 4.5, that is a scary thought (for other teams.)

Look at what Newton is doing at Auburn.

 

[IrishInFl]

Its very simple...you live to play another down!

You cant put too much stock into 2012 QB's, its 2010. You have to jump at an opportunity to get a player who you think can start at your college. Do you really think BKells is sitting there thinking, "actually J Brissett, we might get some good looking guys in 2012 so don't bother..?"

Are you out of your mind??? ahha....we could lose more games this year and any 2012 players wont even interested! you have to strike when the iron is hot, this offense is desperate for a dual threat QB.

Wow, that proves why Golson and Brissett have more upside than Mauk, Kiel, Pike, Crow, and Coney! (sarcasm)

BTW, where in my question did I write that I did not want to pursue a QB this recruiting class? I was a huge fan of Bubba Starling when it looked like ND had a chance to get him, so what makes you think I'm against getting a top notch dual-threat QB?

 

[rocket31]

Please explain why they have more upside than Mauk, Kiel, Pike, Crow, and Coney.

is this a serious Q? coney is going to FSU once they offer. we are not even going to offer crow.

and mauk, pike, kiel do not run sub 4.5 40s, last time i checked. its not rocket science. brissett and golson are two of the best athletes in the country. very few kids have opportunities to play basketball and football at the next level and they BOTH do. that natural athletic ability = more upside in the zone read spread option offensive system.

regardless, ill trust the coaches evaluations, if they believe brissett and/or golson are worth a scholly then its silly to wait another year to develop another commodity.

 

[IrishInFl]

is this a serious Q? coney is going to FSU once they offer. we are not even going to offer crow.

and mauk, pike, kiel do not run sub 4.5 40s, last time i checked. its not rocket science. brissett and golson are two of the best athletes in the country. very few kids have opportunities to play basketball and football at the next level and they BOTH do.

regardless, ill trust the coaches evaluations, if they believe brissett and/or golson are worth a scholly then its silly to wait another year to develop a lesser commodity.

That proves it! Being fast automatically makes a prospect have higher upside! (sarcasm)

Once again, please explain, in full detail based on your observations, why Golson and Brissett have more upside than Mauk, Kiel, Pike, Crow, and Coney.

 

[rocket31]

That proves it! Being fast automatically makes a prospect have higher upside! (sarcasm)

its being elusive, quick, and just an overall naturally gifted athlete which leaves a prospect with a higher ceiling, especially in our offense.

the coaches are obviously on my side of this argument, or they wouldnt waste their time on these prospects...

 

[Zibby32]

Wow, that proves why Golson and Brissett have more upside than Mauk, Kiel, Pike, Crow, and Coney! (sarcasm)

BTW, where in my question did I write that I did not want to pursue a QB this recruiting class? I was a huge fan of Bubba Starling when it looked like ND had a chance to get him, so what makes you think I'm against getting a top notch dual-threat QB?

I am not clarifying who is better...or who has more upside. If you haven't noticed, Notre Dame isnt dealing from a position of strength right now. So if you have a talented dual threat QB visiting your school for a potential commitment (esp after we just lost to Tulsa), YOU MAKE IT HAPPEN.

It doesnt matter who has more potential...If they can lock up one of these kats, maybe instead of 2 QB's next year we can focus on more "pressing"" needs...because we have them thats why!

 

[Zibby32]

Originally Posted by IrishInFL
That proves it! Being fast automatically makes a prospect have higher upside! (sarcasm)

"Hi, my name is Denard Robinson....I play QB, I run a 4.3 40...I didnt learn how to successfuly throw a football til after my first year in college...!!"

 

[rocket31]

n/m

 

[IrishInFl]

"Hi, my name is Denard Robinson....I play QB, I run a 4.3 40...I didnt learn how to successfuly throw a football til after my first year in college...!!"

My name is Demetrius Jones, and I have more upside than Jimmy Clausen!

 

[IrishInFl]

screw that WHY DOES HE HAVE MORE UPSIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EXPLAIN IN FULL DETAIL(sarcasm)

Once again, you still haven't explained why the 2012 QBs have less upside than Golson and Brissett. I'm not even saying that Golson and Brissett more, the same, or less upside than the 2012 QBs. You made the assertion that they do have more upside, please explain why. Speed alone does not make a QB automatically have more upside.

 

[Zibby32]

Jimmy Clausen to demetrius jones....Pro style QB, in a Pro style offense to a spread QB in a Pros style offense.....

Dayne Christ to Brissett/Golsen...pro style QB in a spread offense to Spread QB's in Spread offenses.....

Oh I see your comparison?? come on bro, compare apples to apples

I would take demetrius jones in this BK offense. As i am sure BK would have if he had gotten him out of high school.

 

[IrishInFl]

Jimmy Clausen to demetrius jones....Pro style QB, in a Pro style offense to a spread QB in a Pros style offense.....

Dayne Christ to Brissett/Golsen...pro style QB in a spread offense to Spread QB's in Spread offenses.....

Oh I see your comparison?? come on bro, compare apples to apples

I would take demetrius jones in this BK offense. As i am sure BK would have if he had gotten him out of high school.

I think I may quote this after he was in a BK system, and got turned into a MLB by the speedster that is Tony Pike.

 

[IrishLax]

This thread is starting to get circular.

The bottom line is there are different kinds of spread offenses... and a fast QB isn't necessarily better for this offense. Probably the ideal kind of spread QB for this offense would be in Aaron Rodgers mold (aka a great all-around passer with enough athletic ability to make the occasional run). Denard Robinson would fail miserably in BK's system... but a Tate Forcier would be a good fit.

So to say a Brissett/Golson automatically has better upside than Mauk is pretty crazy.

 

[Zibby32]

I will repeat what I just posted

I would take demetrius jones in this BK offense. As i am sure BK would have if he had gotten him out of high school.

and I will spell it out for you, because your having trouble reading through the line, and i dont blame you for it.

I would take Demetrius Jones in this offense "OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL" as I am sure BK would have too...meaning when he got to Cinncinati, BK made the decision that starting over and teaching him to play QB his way was not worht eithers time. Instead they found the best way possible to get him on the field as soon as possible (at OLB btw not MLB).....he wasnt the same kid walking onto the Bearcat campus, as he was walking on to the irish campus!

 

[rocket31]

Once again, you still haven't explained why the 2012 QBs have less upside than Golson and Brissett. I'm not even saying that Golson and Brissett more, the same, or less upside than the 2012 QBs. You made the assertion that they do have more upside, please explain why. Speed alone does not make a QB automatically have more upside.

am i alive right now?

how many time do i have to say speed, quickness, elusiveness, natural athletic ability = higher upside in our offense.

do you not understand the concept of higher upside or something?...repeating myself over and over again is becoming nauseating.

 

[IrishInFl]

This thread is starting to get circular.

The bottom line is there are different kinds of spread offenses... and a fast QB isn't necessarily better for this offense. Probably the ideal kind of spread QB for this offense would be in Aaron Rodgers mold (aka a great all-around passer with enough athletic ability to make the occasional run). Denard Robinson would fail miserably in BK's system... but a Tate Forcier would be a good fit.

So to say a Brissett/Golson automatically has better upside than Mauk is pretty crazy.

Ya think? I still haven't gotten a point by point comparison to Golson and Brissett to Mauk, Kiel, Pike, Crow, and Coney.

BTW, I'll go further with BK not necessarily going with the more athletic QB to start. Pike started during Kelly's final season at Cincinnati. He got injured, so here comes in the far more athletic Zach Collaros. He played great with many people thinking that even when Pike was recovered from injury, Collaros would still keep the starting QB job. Instead, Pike was the starter again, with Collaros being a Tebow type change of pace QB.

 

[IrishInFl]

Ya know what athletic QB did play pretty good in the BK system? Ben Mauk.

 

[rocket31]

Ya think? I still haven't gotten a point by point comparison to Golson and Brissett to Mauk, Kiel, Pike, Crow, and Coney.

BTW, I'll go further with BK not necessarily going with the more athletic QB to start. Pike started during Kelly's final season at Cincinnati. He got injured, so here comes in the far more athletic Zach Collaros. He played great with many people thinking that even when Pike was recovered from injury, Collaros would still keep the starting QB job. Instead, Pike was the starter again, with Collaros being a Tebow type change of pace QB.

a) continuing to mention guys like coney and crow serve no purpose, they are not coming here.

b) pike started because he was two years older, was a heisman contender, and had a better overall grasp of the offense.

to put it in perspective, brian kelly is not going to start hendrix saturday just because he is "more athletic" than rees. however, hendrix has a higher ceiling (more upside) and projects to be the better player moving forward...

 

[IrishInFl]

a) continuing to mention guys like coney and crow serve no purpose, they are not coming here.

b) pike started because he was two years older, was a heisman contender, and had a better overall grasp of the offense.

to put it in perspective, brian kelly is not going to start hendrix saturday just because he is a better athlete than rees. however, hendrix has a higher ceiling (more upside) than rees does and he projects to be the better player...

So what? You made the assertion that Golson and Brissett have more upside than the 2012 QBs on NDs radar. Crow may not, but Coney claims to have an offer, so he's probably still on NDs radar.

 

[Zibby32]

Its not really about upside as i have mentioned 4 times now...Its about who we can sign to make our football team better for next season....

J Brissett Fan Club/Band Wagon Heismen 2013, who is in on it?

 

[TerryTate]

So what? You made the assertion that Golson and Brissett have more upside than the 2012 QBs on NDs radar. Crow may not, but Coney claims to have an offer, so he's probably still on NDs radar.

I hardly think that Coney's offer is actionable after being kicked off the football team.