Ridiculous Kelly Bashers - Who's your answer??

[NeuteredDoomer]

So did Weis.....

So how do you solve it?

 

[Joshuac7173]

Injury Pass?

Injury Pass?

I am startled at how nobody gave Weis much slack when his first real class of studs (juniors mind you), Clausen, Floyd, Allen and I think Rudolph were all injured last year? Huh?

I totoally agree with the blame going to the administration. Weis should have been allowed to get his kids to seniors. Then evaluate his body of work.*

Kelly should be on a shorter leash (MAX '14) b/c Weis was a summarily tossed for being just slightly above average. (35-27)

We set the standard at firing coaches who don't win .80 before their class matures right?


*ND is an academic instituiton first! His class carried the highest GPA ever and was ranked the number 1 graduation rate!

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I am startled at how nobody gave Weis much slack when his first real class of studs (juniors mind you), Clausen, Floyd, Allen and I think Rudolph were all injured last year? Huh?

I totoally agree with the blame going to the administration. Weis should have been allowed to get his kids to seniors. Then evaluate his body of work.*

Kelly should be on a shorter leash (MAX '14) b/c Weis was a summarily tossed for being just slightly above average. (35-27)

We set the standard at firing coaches who don't win .80 before their class matures right?


*ND is an academic instituiton first! His class carried the highest GPA ever and was ranked the number 1 graduation rate!

Yeah. CW's first class in '07 I called my pups. Next year I called them my big pups. Next year I called them my lil dogs.

Oh well...

 

[Jerry]

I am startled at how nobody gave Weis much slack when his first real class of studs (juniors mind you), Clausen, Floyd, Allen and I think Rudolph were all injured last year? Huh?

I totoally agree with the blame going to the administration. Weis should have been allowed to get his kids to seniors. Then evaluate his body of work.*

Kelly should be on a shorter leash (MAX '14) b/c Weis was a summarily tossed for being just slightly above average. (35-27)

We set the standard at firing coaches who don't win .80 before their class matures right?


*ND is an academic instituiton first! His class carried the highest GPA ever and was ranked the number 1 graduation rate!

Well Weis's first full class were seniors last year. He was coach for 5 years. The Clausen class of '07 was a good one and it would have been nice if he got to coach them as Seniors. But losing 4 straight games to end last season at 6-6 when people were predicting a BCS run was pretty bad. It was the last 3 years that got Weis fired not his overall winning percentage.

 

[IrishBoy]

Well Weis's first full class were seniors last year. He was coach for 5 years. The Clausen class of '07 was a good one and it would have been nice if he got to coach them as Seniors. But losing 4 straight games to end last season at 6-6 when people were predicting a BCS run was pretty bad. It was the last 3 years that got Weis fired not his overall winning percentage.

Actually, after Weis was fired, he told the reporter that after the Navy game (he lost), he went up to Jack Swarbrick to ask him about his fate. Jack said he would be out of Notre Dame at the end of the season. I personally blame on Jack Swarbrick for telling Weis that he would have to pack his bags regardless of three games left on the schedule which Notre Dame could win three straight games to make it a 9-3 season, but why should we expect Weis to win games even though he's fired already. Either way, he's going to be fired and now he's gone. Do we support him if he makes it to 9-3? Probably. I wish AD Swarbrick to tell Weis to worry about three remaining games to get into a BCS or bust. It was not a classy thing to do to tell the coach he's outta here with three games left.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

YouTube - Coldplay - Viva La Vida (Live)

 

[TerryTate]

Actually, after Weis was fired, he told the reporter that after the Navy game (he lost), he went up to Jack Swarbrick to ask him about his fate. Jack said he would be out of Notre Dame at the end of the season. I personally blame on Jack Swarbrick for telling Weis that he would have to pack his bags regardless of three games left on the schedule which Notre Dame could win three straight games to make it a 9-3 season, but why should we expect Weis to win games even though he's fired already. Either way, he's going to be fired and now he's gone. Do we support him if he makes it to 9-3? Probably. I wish AD Swarbrick to tell Weis to worry about three remaining games to get into a BCS or bust. It was not a classy thing to do to tell the coach he's outta here with three games left.

Weis was on his way out regardless. At this point (hate on me if you want, playas) he was playing for a position in the NFL. You know regardless he was going to end up as an offensive coordinator in the NFL. Motivation is the key factor. It is my belief that Weis couldn't fire up the team. I'm hoping for a turn around this season. From what I saw, 3 games this season, Chuck Martin is the type of guy you want on the field with your defense. That man possesses the fire I have been looking for for years. He's the real deal. Patience, gentlemen

 

[TDHeysus]

At this point (hate on me if you want, playas) he was playing for a position in the NFL.

I couldnt disagree more - Weis' NFL legacy was sown up before he arrived in South Bend. When he took the HC at ND, he could have had just about any open OC job in the NFL that he wanted, they would have rolled out the red carpet for him. Most teams would have accomodated him just because of his track record(3 SB wins), his ties to the belichek system, and his ties to developing Tom Brady. He didnt need anything from ND to help land an NFL job. I think the way he was treated, the outright hate he received, from ND ppl nonetheless, only helped him in his NFL job hunt. Once swarbrick cut him his walking checks, he seemed to go staright to KC and into his new offices there, without skipping a beat. Clearly the NFL didnt have any issue with CW, never did. He was successful before Notre Dame, and has been successful after Notre Dame. Some would argue that he was on the right path at Notre Dame, and 'Rome wasnt built in a day'. But Weis was trying to 'Rebuild Rome' something that has never been accomplished. Faith is measured in the win column.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Weis was on his way out regardless. At this point (hate on me if you want, playas) he was playing for a position in the NFL. You know regardless he was going to end up as an offensive coordinator in the NFL. Motivation is the key factor. It is my belief that Weis couldn't fire up the team. I'm hoping for a turn around this season. From what I saw, 3 games this season, Chuck Martin is the type of guy you want on the field with your defense. That man possesses the fire I have been looking for for years. He's the real deal. Patience, gentlemen

Eh, I'm sure he knew that's where he was headed but Charlie never once quit on those guys or stopped trying to get them to win.

The first two Weis teams seemed plenty motivated, and this years Kelly team seems to have problems with it, despite Kelly's renowned abilities as a motivator of men. There are 85 scholarship athletes and only a handful of coaches. 90% of the leadership and motivation has to come from the players, it shouldn't take Vince Lombardi to get you excited to put on that golden helmet and play for 85,000 people.

Charlie had 2 problems: depth on the offensive line and depth on the defensive line. Those 2 also ended up making his RBs and DBs look worse than they really were (not to mention one famous defensive coordinator.)

Edit: That being said, I think Chuck could be great for the program. But if the players ND gets aren't fired up to be there, all the coaching in the world is just going to be paddling upstream.

 

[NDMontana]

Don't give me that academics bs. It's flat out not true. The admissions guys may stop 2 or 3 guys a class. But the standards for acceptance for a football player are SIGNIFICANTLY lower. Enough of this academic requirements excuse.

This is a culture thing. These upperclassmen have had some terrible losing seasons. Mental toughness is the answer.

I'd vote to have all freshman and sophomores play. They have the fire we need. TJ, Toma, Schwenke, Shembo, Manti, Carlo, Jackson

ND looks like a team that is playing scared and mentally-broken.

This is right along the lines of what I was thinking except I went a step further. I advocated segregating all the freshmen and sophomores from the juniors and seniors. Get Wood, Te'o and the rest away from the other varsity guys. Tell those two that they're going to be captains and leaders and set the tone for the new coaching regime. I'm talking seperate practices, weight training and film sessions. Hell, impose a ban on hanging out together at non-football activities.

I'm telling you, Weis brought these guys in by selling them on developing them into pros. He tried to turn ND, thinking it would revive the program, into a pro-factory. But that didn't work. These guys come before the cameras after every loss--and some have been doing it for two or three years--with the same tired lines and sullen look: "we're sticking together", "we're getting better", "nobody in that locker room is giving up". Blah, blah, blah.

Fact is that you hit the nail on the head--there's no mental toughness. Or maybe it's not even that, maybe it's that they don't care. Whatever the case is, Kelly isn't going to change the juniors/seniors. He might as well try to start changing the mindset amongst the younger guys.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I was the biggest Weis supporter out there, but he had to go, period. I'm shocked people here still think he should have been given yet another year, especially considering Weis himself said that he wasn't getting the job done! He said that 6-6 wasn't good enough, but that was his record his last 2 seasons (coming off a 3-9 season before that. He was going the wrong way.

Just take a look at the state of the program last year. Lost 4 straight to end the season, with his players fully established in his system. The program was in a state of disarray. Recruits were either bailing or ready to bail. Everyone knew that ND didn't develop defensive players nor did they develop any players outside of QB, TE and WR. Weis needed a big year, and instead had a mediocre year that got worse instead of better. He needed to go.

Now you have a guy like Kelly, who has had to change a mindset, a culture of losing (and has been said - softness). We figured, because of his track record and b/c we are fans, that he could do it in year one. We were wrong. Implementing a new system, getting Weis' players to change their ways, and overcoming all these damn key injuries has proven to be difficult challenges. It's going to take a while for things to get better...and it may get worse these next few games before it gets better.

Weis had 5 years. BY HIS OWN ADMISSION, HE FAILED. Now it's time to give Kelly a chance. I'll leave you with this list of coaches who did poorly their first years:

* Tressel - 2-9 at Youngstown St, 7-5 at Ohio St
* Saban - 6-5-1 at MSU, 7-6 at Bama, lost to Louisiana-Monroe
* Carroll - 6-6 at SC
* Patterson - 6-6 TCU
* Beamer - 2-9, 3-8 at Va Tech
* Pinkel - 4-7, 5-7 at Missouri
* Stoops - 7-5 at Oklahoma
* Mack Brown - 1-10 at Tulane, 1-10 at N. Carolina
* Ferentz - 1-10, 3-9 at Iowa
* Harbaugh - 4-8, 5-7 at Stanford

To even THINK about firing Kelly now is absolutely ridiculous and embarrassingly short-sighted. Give the man a chance to succeed. 9 games is not even close to a chance.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I suppose I can't speak for everyone who is worried, but I am the one who started the thread on what if Charlie hadn't been fired.

I'm not so much worried about the future if things stay together as I'm worried about a tidal wave just destroying any ability to build a future. If Kelly is able to hold this recruiting class together and make it to next year we'll be fine. The concern is whether or not that can happen. If we lose Tuitt in addiiton to Prestwood, Lynch and Burton it might start a stampede for the exits.

You need to understand that recruiting is a great deal of group think, just like lots of other parts of our lives. If recruits decide Kelly is a failure and ND can't recover, that becomes the truth irrespective of anything else.

If the recruiting class gets decimated, then no coach can save the program in the short term - Urban, Lou and Vince Lombardi included. If Kelly keeps it together, we'll be fine in a couple of years. It's as simple as that.

More players will want to come to ND. They will play more, earlier. It doesn't work the other way around, when you have a good recruiting system. Look at who we lost: one kid that wants to play with his brother, a second that has had promises of playing tight end whispered in his ear, and a third, (well you all thought he was great, but I had a real problem with 99% of the postings on his thread.)

Sabin’s first year at Toledo 9-3 MAC Championship, bowl victory, from a decimated program. Ara was 1 minute from winning a NC his first year at ND. What does this mean? You can't afford to read your opinion into anything. It is like shooting at the side of a barn, noticing that all of the shots hit within a basketball sized area, and drawing a target around it. No one is smart enough to predict the future. We can only read present trends. It seems that Charlie's recruits have a perchance for being highly rated recruits, that play average football. Or their chemistry together stinks.

From Matt James' death to this last week, no one could take that kind of tragedy and thrive.

 

[Honey Nut Irish]

I don't think it's the record most people are worried about. It's the mindset you speak of. The attitude of the team has not changed one bit under Kelly. If anything it is worse than it was under Weis. That is what has me worried.

And please do not bring up the lack of "RKGs." No matter how worthless or soft you think the current players are, they should not lose to Navy and Tulsa.

 

[aaronb]

Well Weis's first full class were seniors last year. He was coach for 5 years. The Clausen class of '07 was a good one and it would have been nice if he got to coach them as Seniors. But losing 4 straight games to end last season at 6-6 when people were predicting a BCS run was pretty bad. It was the last 3 years that got Weis fired not his overall winning percentage.

Part of that was the poisonous negativity around the program. It had hung over Chuck Weis really ever since the 2007 season. That is really the biggest problem the football program has right now. The "Back in my day" crowd that watched during the Ara days.

Unfortunately the college landscape has changed. 85 Schollie limits and many more D1 options. Transfers and Jucos. TV contracts for all.

No coach can measure up to the expectations of lots of old school domers. Hopefully the new AD will understand this and give whoever coaches this team plenty of support, and a long leash.

 

[IrishBoy]

I couldnt disagree more - Weis' NFL legacy was sown up before he arrived in South Bend. When he took the HC at ND, he could have had just about any open OC job in the NFL that he wanted, they would have rolled out the red carpet for him. Most teams would have accomodated him just because of his track record(3 SB wins), his ties to the belichek system, and his ties to developing Tom Brady. He didnt need anything from ND to help land an NFL job. I think the way he was treated, the outright hate he received, from ND ppl nonetheless, only helped him in his NFL job hunt. Once swarbrick cut him his walking checks, he seemed to go staright to KC and into his new offices there, without skipping a beat. Clearly the NFL didnt have any issue with CW, never did. He was successful before Notre Dame, and has been successful after Notre Dame. Some would argue that he was on the right path at Notre Dame, and 'Rome wasnt built in a day'. But Weis was trying to 'Rebuild Rome' something that has never been accomplished. Faith is measured in the win column.

I totally agree with you. I think Weis is a perfect fit for NFL given his track record in the NFL. I feel the NFL treats him tons of respect more than Notre Dame gave him. I really apperciate of what Charlie Weis did for Notre Dame on recruiting. He got us a Jimmy Clausen who was heavily recruited by USC and Manti Teo who was heavily recruited by USC as well. I kind of wish Weis is our offensive coordinator at Notre Dame, not a head coach. I think that would be a good opportunity for him instead of becoming a head coach. All in all, Weis did a lot, but his five year was up and he didn't accomplish a lot in the last three years.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

I don't think it's the record most people are worried about. It's the mindset you speak of. The attitude of the team has not changed one bit under Kelly. If anything it is worse than it was under Weis. That is what has me worried.

And please do not bring up the lack of "RKGs." No matter how worthless or soft you think the current players are, they should not lose to Navy and Tulsa.

Hammer....meet head of nail. Right on.

 

[chyrspchuck]

I've heard a bit of Fire Kelly, but I haven't once heard, Fire Swarbrick, I don't like it when the guy talks, I think he thinks he is the Jerry Jones of College Football. Just my opinion.

 

[WabashFalcon]

*Yawn*

Something happen here?

Implying that everyone thinks that Brian Kelly not winning 12 games right away with a roster of Charile's players that are geared for a pro-style O instead of a bunch of quick, sure handed Spread players in addition to a D switching back into a 3-4 after a year w/out a now proven nose tackle, two gapping ends, and legit OLBs should lead to his instant firing.

Funny, ain't it?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

*Yawn*

Something happen here?

Implying that everyone thinks that Brian Kelly not winning 12 games right away with a roster of Charile's players that are geared for a pro-style O instead of a bunch of quick, sure handed Spread players in addition to a D switching back into a 3-4 after a year w/out a now proven nose tackle, two gapping ends, and legit OLBs should lead to his instant firing.

Funny, ain't it?

Simply a laugh riot!! But what kind of funny are you talkin'?

 

[GreatGolson]

Maybe we get the OTHER kelly? (i think we have the $ to do that)

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Question is, do we have the brains not to do that?

 

[kmoose]

Maybe we get the OTHER kelly? (i think we have the $ to do that)

ND could afford to sign Chip Kelly, if he was looking for a job. But I doubt that ND has enough, to lure him away from Oregon. Phil Knight (Nike) will see to that.

 

[WabashFalcon]

Maybe we get the OTHER kelly? (i think we have the $ to do that)

Gene Kelly?

 

[WabashFalcon]

Maybe we get the OTHER kelly? (i think we have the $ to do that)

Kelly Rippa?

 

[bert2834]

Kelly Kapowski?

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Kelly Clarkson?

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Kelly Mcgillis?

 

[chyrspchuck]

Jim Kelly is coaching now?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Machine Gun Kelly, keep the disgruntled fans quiet.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatDayne
Maybe we get the OTHER kelly? (i think we have the $ to do that)

Kelly Rippa?

Interesting possibility: Can you imagine Regis as strength and conditioning coach?