USA Today: Swarbrick & Kelly will not resign

[TerryTate]

Notre Dame AD should have been more fatherly than lawyerly - USATODAY.com

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Nor should they resign.

Declan's death was tragic and unjust.

However, Kelly didn't intend on this event to happen.
I'd hate to just say accidents happen, but they do.

This is a tragic accident and I'm sure all those responsible including Kelly are feeling miserable.

This guilt is probably going to be a feeling Brian has to live with for the rest of his life. This pain from a accident is punishment enough. Resigning is unwarranted.

God Bless the Sullivan family!

 

[lookingdeadred]

Would you feel the same way if a drunk driver killed a family member?

Would you feel the same way if a drunk driver killed a family member?

That would be a tragic accident, too, something the drunk driver never intended. I am sure it would make the driver feel miserable the rest of his life, too. But I bet you would want the perp punished.

BK could see how windy it was and should have grounded the kid. Yes, accidents happen, but when an accident happens because of a serious lapse in judgment, the person(s) responsible should own up and take his/their medicine. This lapse in judgment is going to bite BK and ND in the butt legally speaking. It will not go to trial (good for ND as they would get smoked by a jury), but it will cost them millions of dollars along with the PR black eye that this is.

I seriously doubt if this had happened to Rich Rod, or Urban Meyer, or Lane Kiffin, posters like FightingIrishLover would not be so forgiving.

Nor should they resign.

Declan's death was tragic and unjust.

However, Kelly didn't intend on this event to happen.
I'd hate to just say accidents happen, but they do.

This is a tragic accident and I'm sure all those responsible including Kelly are feeling miserable.

This guilt is probably going to be a feeling Brian has to live with for the rest of his life. This pain from a accident is punishment enough. Resigning is unwarranted.

God Bless the Sullivan family!

 

[Rocket89]

That would be a tragic accident, too, something the drunk driver never intended. I am sure it would make the driver feel miserable the rest of his life, too. But I bet you would want the perp punished.

BK could see how windy it was and should have grounded the kid. Yes, accidents happen, but when an accident happens because of a serious lapse in judgment, the person(s) responsible should own up and take his/their medicine. This lapse in judgment is going to bite BK and ND in the butt legally speaking. It will not go to trial (good for ND as they would get smoked by a jury), but it will cost them millions of dollars along with the PR black eye that this is.

I seriously doubt if this had happened to Rich Rod, or Urban Meyer, or Lane Kiffin, posters like FightingIrishLover would not be so forgiving.

Comparing this to a drunk driver?

No way.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Comparing this to a drunk driver?

No way.

It is different, yes. Because the penalties for drunk driving, and killing someone, are clearly written, and severe. But, he does draw a reasonible comparison to the negligence which caused the act. Someone is going to be held responsible, I do not know the extent to which BK had a say in the kid being on the lift.

An accident, yes, but the cause was negligence.

 

[bigedefense]

That would be a tragic accident, too, something the drunk driver never intended. I am sure it would make the driver feel miserable the rest of his life, too. But I bet you would want the perp punished.

BK could see how windy it was and should have grounded the kid. Yes, accidents happen, but when an accident happens because of a serious lapse in judgment, the person(s) responsible should own up and take his/their medicine. This lapse in judgment is going to bite BK and ND in the butt legally speaking. It will not go to trial (good for ND as they would get smoked by a jury), but it will cost them millions of dollars along with the PR black eye that this is.

I seriously doubt if this had happened to Rich Rod, or Urban Meyer, or Lane Kiffin, posters like FightingIrishLover would not be so forgiving.

I did! He was a local big wig. At a Christmas Party, and had too much to drink. I spoke on his behalf at trial and would not sue.

 

[phork]

As bad as I feel for the kid and regardless of what I feel about the situation in general. The guy had a right to refuse unsafe work. More kids need to be educated in labor laws. Would any of you gone up on that thing in that wind? I know I wouldn't because I have used one before and even in zero wind conditions its sketchy at best.

 

[lookingdeadred]

Exactly.

Exactly.

The accident was the result of negligence.

It is different, yes. Because the penalties for drunk driving, and killing someone, are clearly written, and severe. But, he does draw a reasonible comparison to the negligence which caused the act. Someone is going to be held responsible, I do not know the extent to which BK had a say in the kid being on the lift.

An accident, yes, but the cause was negligence.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

The accident was the result of negligence.

Opinion stated as fact.

 

[irishff1014]

This is very sad but Like they hade on espn one day they had NO policy on this Which is EVERy ones fault. And as an EMT we have always been told if nothing is written nothing happened.

 

[chyrspchuck]

I've always been a believer that Swarbrick should be fired, he has always just seemed slimy to me, and in this instance, that week, that press conference when he was describing the scene, I felt I didn't believe him.

 

[irishff1014]

Jack did make him self look like an ***. The national weather service doesn't lie. So for them reporting winds at 38 mph and say it was just a gust that was the wrong move to make.

 

[tatoobaldman]

the kid could have said no. it is horrible that this happened. i am sure bk wishes he would have practiced inside but he didn't. sitting here complaining about it isnt gonna bring him back so why dont everyone just let the kid rest in peace!!

 

[dskoo65]

The accident was the result of negligence.

yes. i completely agree.

BK knows when they practice outside that they are going to film. he already stated this. so, he knew when he decided to practice outdoors in unusually windy condition that they would be filming. coaches all over the midwest were cognizant of the wind, and several (in addition to coach Tressel) expressed concern about their films crews safety as early as monday morning.

i dont expect a kid to go tell the coach he doesnt want to film because he is scared of the condition. ultimately, the buck stops at the coach.

remember, ignorance is no defense.

if you get caught speeding 60 in a 35 mph zone, and then proceed to tell the cop "i didnt know it was a 35 mph zone, and besides i felt driving 60 was safe in this neighborhood where all these kids are playing"......do you think you are off the hook?

failing to consider the safety of all involved in practice is part Kelly's responsibility.....yes, it is a huge responsibility.....but, it is still an act of negligence that lead to death.

 

[IlovethehireofCoachKelly]

That would be a tragic accident, too, something the drunk driver never intended. I am sure it would make the driver feel miserable the rest of his life, too. But I bet you would want the perp punished.
BK could see how windy it was and should have grounded the kid. Yes, accidents happen, but when an accident happens because of a serious lapse in judgment, the person(s) responsible should own up and take his/their medicine. This lapse in judgment is going to bite BK and ND in the butt legally speaking. It will not go to trial (good for ND as they would get smoked by a jury), but it will cost them millions of dollars along with the PR black eye that this is.

I seriously doubt if this had happened to Rich Rod, or Urban Meyer, or Lane Kiffin, posters like FightingIrishLover would not be so forgiving.

Wow, what a comparison. Not really!

 

[irishff1014]

the kid could have said no. it is horrible that this happened. i am sure bk wishes he would have practiced inside but he didn't. sitting here complaining about it isnt gonna bring him back so why dont everyone just let the kid rest in peace!!

If you don't practice in the weather how do you expect the team to play in it?

 

[dskoo65]

the kid could have said no. it is horrible that this happened. i am sure bk wishes he would have practiced inside but he didn't. sitting here complaining about it isnt gonna bring him back so why dont everyone just let the kid rest in peace!!

people were clearly negligent here. you hold negligent people responsible because it is the right thing to do and because it helps prevent similar future negligence.

sure, people who are negligent ALWAYS will wish they did something different.

the argument that holding someone responsible isnt going to bring the kid back is ridiculous. using that premise, nobody would ever be held responsible for anything that resulted in someones death.

 

[irishff1014]

people were clearly negligent here. you hold negligent people responsible because it is the right thing to do and because it helps prevent similar future negligence.

sure, people who are negligent ALWAYS will wish they did something different.

the argument that holding someone responsible isnt going to bring the kid back is ridiculous. using that premise, nobody would ever be held responsible for anything that resulted in someones death.

You are right them family will get a couple million dollars thats how this one gets paid for. Not to be rude however nothing illegal was done.

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

this is a very touchy subject so NO COMMENT!

 

[lookingdeadred]

The comparison is perfectly valid

The comparison is perfectly valid

Both involve making a bad decision that led to a tragic accident. When that happens someone should be held responsible. This could have and should have been avoided.

Wow, what a comparison. Not really!

 

[GDomer09]

Both involve making a bad decision that led to a tragic accident. When that happens someone should be held responsible. This could have and should have been avoided.

A victim can't control when a drunk driver decides to smash into them. Declan could
control his decision to climb or not to climb a tower with winds like that. BK should
have looked out for him a little better. In the end, more like that of the drunk driver
who gets behind the wheel, Declan had a decision to make. Unfortunately he was trying to be a good employee & forgot about his safety. More importantly now is that this incident is documented & regulations are set for whether conditions.

 

[Jerry]

yes. i completely agree.

BK knows when they practice outside that they are going to film. he already stated this. so, he knew when he decided to practice outdoors in unusually windy condition that they would be filming. coaches all over the midwest were cognizant of the wind, and several (in addition to coach Tressel) expressed concern about their films crews safety as early as monday morning.

i dont expect a kid to go tell the coach he doesnt want to film because he is scared of the condition. ultimately, the buck stops at the coach.

remember, ignorance is no defense.

if you get caught speeding 60 in a 35 mph zone, and then proceed to tell the cop "i didnt know it was a 35 mph zone, and besides i felt driving 60 was safe in this neighborhood where all these kids are playing"......do you think you are off the hook?

failing to consider the safety of all involved in practice is part Kelly's responsibility.....yes, it is a huge responsibility.....but, it is still an act of negligence that lead to death.

The more I think about it what if Kelly didn't know it was possible for a scissors lift to fall over? This whole situation makes me sick and I'm really angry that Notre Dame let this happen to this kid. But even if we say Kelly is responsible for everyone that is involved with the program it still doesn't make him a heavy equipment expert. I've worked on lifts before and they are pretty scary. But I've worked in the construction business long enough to know that people are kind of dumb when you take them out of their area of expertise even if they are intelligent successful people.

 

[irishff1014]

It needs to be done with. Yes it happened and it is sad that it happened move on.

 

[DomerBoy]

Swarbick is a prick, questioning the motives of Declan's twitter posting a day after his death.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

people were clearly negligent here. you hold negligent people responsible because it is the right thing to do and because it helps prevent similar future negligence...

I don't think "negligence" and "clearly" mean what you think they mean.

"Negligent" means that the person in question deviated from the standard of conduct that would have been practiced by a reasonably prudent person under same or similar circumstances.

Unless and until you can point to a particular action made by an ND official, and show that, knowing what that official knew or should have known, a reasonable person in a similar circumstance would have acted differently, your case for negligence crumbles.

Negligence is not synonymous with 'preventable death'. It is about people acting demonstrably unreasonable in proximately causing such death.

 

[dskoo65]

I don't think "negligence" and "clearly" mean what you think they mean.

"Negligent" means that the person in question deviated from the standard of conduct that would have been practiced by a reasonably prudent person under same or similar circumstances.
.

thanks. you pretty much made my point for me.

thats exactly what i think it means. i believe a reasonably prudent person would think its very dangerous to have a person 40 feet up in the air on any type of apparatus on a day when it was clear to anyone outdoors that the winds were excessive. a reasonably prudent person need not be an expert in scissor lifts to come to that conclusion.

heck, there were other coaches in the midwest who would not practice outdoors because they were worried about their camera people being up on PERMANENT lifts....there are your "reasonable people" acting differently and they werent even using temporary lifts.

 

[Jerry]

thanks. you pretty much made my point for me.

thats exactly what i think it means. i believe a reasonably prudent person would think its very dangerous to have a person 40 feet up in the air on any type of apparatus. a reasonably prudent person need not be an expert in scissor lifts to come to that conclusion.

heck, there were other coaches in the midwest who would not practice outdoors because they were worried about their camera people being up on PERMANENT lifts....there are your "reasonable people" acting differently and they werent even using temporary lifts.

Most teams in the midwest including Notre Dame were indoors last Tuesday. The accident happened on Wednesday. People are getting confused with the Jim Tressel quotes from Tuesday saying that he was worried about the videographers safety that day. I think OSU was outside Wednesday and I'm sure they filmed practice.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

thanks. you pretty much made my point for me.

thats exactly what i think it means. i believe a reasonably prudent person would think its very dangerous to have a person 40 feet up in the air on any type of apparatus on a day when it was clear to anyone outdoors that the winds were excessive. a reasonably prudent person need not be an expert in scissor lifts to come to that conclusion.

heck, there were other coaches in the midwest who would not practice outdoors because they were worried about their camera people being up on PERMANENT lifts....there are your "reasonable people" acting differently and they werent even using temporary lifts.

You forgot my next sentence:

"Unless and until you can point to a particular action made by an ND official, and show that, knowing what that official knew or should have known, a reasonable person in a similar circumstance would have acted differently, your case for negligence crumbles."

And, btw, just because some people practiced differently does not, without more, make that method of practice objectively reasonable and all other methods unreasonable.

 

[dskoo65]

You forgot my next sentence:

"Unless and until you can point to a particular action made by an ND official, and show that, knowing what that official knew or should have known, a reasonable person in a similar circumstance would have acted differently, your case for negligence crumbles."

.

practicing outdoors knowing they would film unless you told them not to is the action.

yes, the coach should have reasonably known it would not be safe.

BTW, coach Tressel did practice outdoors on wednesday and told his film crew not to go up on the film stands, which are permanent structures, obviously more sound than a temporary scissor lift. it wasnt any less windy on wednesday (the high wind warnings were in effect until 8 or 9 pm wednesday)....its just that apparantly reasonable coaches figured out after a day and a half of those winds what could and could not be done safely (say, for example, having a student filming practice 40 feet in the air on a temporary lift)

if coach Kelly didnt want them filming, he would have said "guys, its too windy, no filming today." those lifts are in prominent view from the practice field.

 

[Irish Insanity]

There is a HUGE difference between the Declan accident in reference to Kelly and a drunk driver. A drunk driver is directly responsible for his actions leading up to and including driving the vehicle. Kelly is most likely not directly responsible for the cameramen that film practice, although someone is. Does something need to change, yes. Could it have been prevented, yes. I will agree they are both complete neglect by someone that eventually lead to death. But in no way am I saying Kelly, or any other Notre Dame official, couldn't have and shouldn't have prevented this from happening. They could have and should have. But if it is found thru the investigation that Kelly was directly reponsible then I would change my view. And until we know that it is all speculation.