Is Dayne Crist the Problem?

[Riddickulous]

Dayne Crist was awful today. This was by far his worst game of his career thus far. Extremely disappointed in his apparent lack of progress.

 

[NDFANnSouthWest]

we have big issues when out QB playes this bad...back to the drawing board.

 

[Riddickulous]

we have big issues when out QB playes this bad...back to the drawing board.

Enter Hendrix in 2011 if Crist doesn't drastically improve his accuracy.

 

[CanadianIrish]

Ummmm......wow. And you wonder why I questioned your intelligence. Thank you for this post.

Case closed.

You think Crist's throws look (I mean that literally, a visual assessment of how his thrown ball looks) better than Rees' at this point? Seriously? Can you point me to one throw this year where Crist took something off a throw and had in go into the right spot? The only throw I can think of that he tried to intentionally throw with extra arc was the fade to Floyd which was dreadful and the perfect example of the problem.

There are dozens of QBs with big arms who never panned out. Frankly, Crist reminds me (at the moment) of a lesser version of Drew Bledsoe. Slightly more mobile, but all arm strength and little ability to throw with touch.

 

[CanadianIrish]

Enter Hendrix in 2011 if Crist doesn't drastically improve his accuracy.

Amen.

I wish I could find a site that showed stats for how far his completions / incompletions by distance of throw. Does anyone know a site that does that?

 

[tko]

the beauty about our situation right now is that we have competition at QB and other positions. competition breeds success and Hendrix will definitely push Dayne to step up his game or give way.

 

[Shamrocks and Shenanigans]

The Hendrix arguement is funny. Crist was one of the top, if not the top recruited QB out of high school. Hendrix has not even seen the field. Dane had a bad game, he will improve every year, Hendrix will not play till Dayne leaves.

 

[Honey Nut Irish]

I thought Dane's play up until the first pick was great. He was calm and confident, running and improvising well. With some better play calling on the goal line its a different game at the half.

Things changed after halftime. He came out trying to do too much. Overall, I think there were some positives and obviously some negatives. His accuracy is still an issue, but not enough so to call for his head imo.

 

[NDinL.A.]

You think Crist's throws look (I mean that literally, a visual assessment of how his thrown ball looks) better than Rees' at this point? Seriously? Can you point me to one throw this year where Crist took something off a throw and had in go into the right spot? The only throw I can think of that he tried to intentionally throw with extra arc was the fade to Floyd which was dreadful and the perfect example of the problem.

There are dozens of QBs with big arms who never panned out. Frankly, Crist reminds me (at the moment) of a lesser version of Drew Bledsoe. Slightly more mobile, but all arm strength and little ability to throw with touch.

Listen, if you haven't been watching the games, that's on you. He's taken some zip off balls; you don't amass the amount of yards he has on zip throws alone. Seriously, you haven't seen ONE pass that he's taken something off of??? Like I said, that's on you. I've never said that he doesn't need to improve, and I've said multiple times to whomever I'm watching it with that he needs to put better touch on the ball. No doubt about that. I'm not arguing that at all. I'm just laughing at the finality of your posts, as if this kid isn't any good and never will be. The fact that you think Rees is better right now proves exactly my point about you being a Skip Bayless type who overreacts to everything.

You said earlier that you haven't seen QB play this bad at ND since Brady Quinn's first year, and maybe Crist's year is worse. ARE YOU FRIGGIN' KIDDING ME???? This is exactly the type of crap that I'm talking about with you. Let's look at the numbers:

* Brady Quinn freshman year: 11 games, 43%, 9 TD, 15 INTS, 1831 yds, zero TDs rushing

* Brady Quinn sophomore year: 12 games, 54%, 17 TDS, 10 INTs, 2586 yds, 3 rushing TDs

* Jimmy Clausen Freshman year: 10 games, 54%, 7 TDs, 6 INTs, 1254 yds, 2 rushing TDs

* Jimmy Clausen Sophomore year: 12 games, 59%, 21 TDs, 17 INTs, 2700+ yds, 3 rushing TDs

* Dayne Crist sophomore year: 7 games, 59%, 1855 yds, 14 TDS, 5 INTs, 4 rushing TDs

(7 games - this is when you said he was done, I don't have the stats yet from the Navy game)

Are seriously sitting here saying that Quinn's and Clausen first 2 years are better than Crist's????? Seriously?

And, by your brilliant assertion, we should have given up on both Quinn and Clausen, 2 of the most prolific passers in ND history. Got it.

This is what I said when I told you your assertion was embarrassing.

 

[CanadianIrish]

The Hendrix arguement is funny. Crist was one of the top, if not the top recruited QB out of high school. Hendrix has not even seen the field. Dane had a bad game, he will improve every year, Hendrix will not play till Dayne leaves.

JaMarcus Russell was drafted first overall. Both he and Crist have cannons with little to no touch or accuracy. The draft, like recruiting, is based on potential. Unfortunately, potential only takes you so far and then it's about performance.

It's performance time for Dayne.

 

[Irish Man3]

Why do we continue to pick one person out to blame for a loss?

 

[chyrspchuck]

JaMarcus Russell was drafted first overall. Both he and Crist have cannons with little to no touch or accuracy. The draft, like recruiting, is based on potential. Unfortunately, potential only takes you so far and then it's about performance.

It's performance time for Dayne.

In his 7th start, did you say the same thing about JIMMY or BRADY, this is just stupid.

 

[Junkhead]

Why do we continue to pick one person out to blame for a loss?

If anything the loss is due to injuries and getting dominated on the line by much smaller opponents, again.

 

[Shamrocks and Shenanigans]

JaMarcus Russell was drafted first overall. Both he and Crist have cannons with little to no touch or accuracy. The draft, like recruiting, is based on potential. Unfortunately, potential only takes you so far and then it's about performance.

It's performance time for Dayne.

Thank you for proving my point Mr. Attorney. Hendrix assures nothing! Case dismissed.

 

[IrishinSyria]

If anything the loss is due to injuries and getting dominated on the line by much smaller opponents, again.

This. Dayne wasn't great today but he really wasn't that bad either. Was he the one who dialed up 3 running plays in a row once we got the ball under the ten yard line on the first drive? Or the one who gave up OVER TWO HUNDRED YARDS OF RUSHING TO THE FULLBACK?? Which more than doubled his previous high and set an all-time Navy record?

Armando Allen, John Goodman, David Ruffer and Duval Kamara have their hands clean today, they played well. Everybody else had a hand in this loss, and Dayne is nowhere near the front of that line.

 

[chyrspchuck]

JaMarcus Russell was drafted first overall. Both he and Crist have cannons with little to no touch or accuracy. The draft, like recruiting, is based on potential. Unfortunately, potential only takes you so far and then it's about performance.

It's performance time for Dayne.

As if 2000 yards and 15 touchdowns isn't performance.......ban this guy please.

 

[CanadianIrish]

Listen, if you haven't been watching the games, that's on you. He's taken some zip off balls; you don't amass the amount of yards he has on zip throws alone. Seriously, you haven't seen ONE pass that he's taken something off of??? Like I said, that's on you. I've never said that he doesn't need to improve, and I've said multiple times to whomever I'm watching it with that he needs to put better touch on the ball. No doubt about that. I'm not arguing that at all. I'm just laughing at the finality of your posts, as if this kid isn't any good and never will be. The fact that you think Rees is better right now proves exactly my point about you being a Skip Bayless type who overreacts to everything.

You said earlier that you haven't seen QB play this bad at ND since Brady Quinn's first year, and maybe Crist's year is worse. ARE YOU FRIGGIN' KIDDING ME???? This is exactly the type of crap that I'm talking about with you. Let's look at the numbers:

* Brady Quinn freshman year: 11 games, 43%, 9 TD, 15 INTS, 1831 yds, zero TDs rushing

* Brady Quinn sophomore year: 12 games, 54%, 17 TDS, 10 INTs, 2586 yds, 3 rushing TDs

* Jimmy Clausen Freshman year: 10 games, 54%, 7 TDs, 6 INTs, 1254 yds, 2 rushing TDs

* Jimmy Clausen Sophomore year: 12 games, 59%, 21 TDs, 17 INTs, 2700+ yds, 3 rushing TDs

* Dayne Crist sophomore year: 7 games, 59%, 1855 yds, 14 TDS, 5 INTs, 4 rushing TDs

(7 games - this is when you said he was done, I don't have the stats yet from the Navy game)

Are seriously sitting here saying that Quinn's and Clausen first 2 years are better than Crist's????? Seriously?

And, by your brilliant assertion, we should have given up on both Quinn and Clausen, 2 of the most prolific passers in ND history. Got it.

This is what I said when I told you your assertion was embarrassing.

You are comparing apples to oranges, and even then trying to hide how different the two are through your wording. Crist is a junior. He would be a red shirt sophomore at another school, he is not a freshman. He's 21 years old - stop comparing him to 18 and 19 year old kids. When I said his year is worse, I'm not talking strictly about statistics, I'm talking about visible potential. I'm concerned about long term issues. Jimmy showed immediate potential and it was obvious right from the start - he also had a laughable line (whereas Dayne has a decent one). Brady was a bit slower, but he still threw a nice ball. They both threw a good ball but made brutally stupid decisions. Dayne isn't throwing a nice ball, and that's the biggest concern of all.

Now I'm going to make a suggestion: stop talking in hyperbole, try talking like you're in a civilized setting with an equal rather than trying to attract "boom goes the dynamite" praise for you comments.

You're response to the concern about Dayne was initially "he's doing great", now it has become "Dayne has potential and will get better". The former I vehemently disagree with, and I think today is all the evidence you need that it's wrong. The latter I am not certain about based on my above comments about how his throws look.

Can you respond to that without any capital letters, insults or denigrating comments or is that the only way you can respond (which would suggest to me the absence of a rational response).

 

[CanadianIrish]

As if 2000 yards and 15 touchdowns isn't performance.......ban this guy please.

Are we going to ban everyone who is calling for Hendrix or Rees to start? Because I'm far from alone. Let's just ban everyone who doesn't think the team is doing perfectly without changing anything!

Again, simple statistics are not an adequate response to legitimate concerns about his quality of play. The Kelly system demands top tier QB play, and we aren't getting it. If we ever hope to improve we have to, and this is a legitimate discussion to be having.

 

[CanadianIrish]

In his 7th start, did you say the same thing about JIMMY or BRADY, this is just stupid.

By that logic if you don't have a returning QB you are default in a rebuilding year. The number of starts he has is not a valid defense to the problem. Cam Newton has had seven starts. Denard Robinson had zero (I think) before this year. The issue with Dayne is that he isn't an 18/19 year old freshman, he's 21 and in his third year at ND and is showing no improvement. He has had three years with college level coaching and still shows no touch.

The other thing with Brady and Jimmy's first year is that the team around them was sigfnicantly worse. Jimmy's team was laughably bad. Dayne has a decent team around him and is still failing.

As for the comments that Hendrix or Rees wouldn't guarantee fixing the problem and that thus the case was closed - I'm not even sure how to respond to that. Another stellar argument. Of course they don't, but if you keep failing with one thing you might as well try another. If Dayne was showing marked improvement in his accuracy and touch I wouldn't suggest it, but the problem is not getting any better at all.

 

[Irishcop]

Why do we continue to pick one person out to blame for a loss?

I thought the entire team from the Coaching staff down to the players looked terrible.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Canadian you are way off base.

Has any of the other QB's you referenced have their Knee blown up last year? And then come back and shoulder their team less than a year after getting their knee blown up?

Did they. Did Cam or Denard have major surgery? Did they? Go ahead and rip, and overlook a huge issue. Just to make an uniformed point.

Yes he is 21, but he lost half of the season last year. So, how much coaching could he have gotten.

And the first two years most all of the reps and coaching went to Jimmy. I 100% disagree with your point.

You leave out a huge issue in a ACL Tear and he came out has has performed pretty dang well. It is our defense that is our cause. Dayne led us back against Michigan and Michigan State, and our D let us down. Sorry you are ripping on the wrong person.

 

[Riddickulous]

Crist is the starter until the end of the 2010 season AT THE EARLIEST.

Give him the offseason to prove himself. If Hendrix or Rees or Massa beats him out, then so be it. He's our best option, right now. Deal with it.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Canadian your uniformed point I left out a couple things:

How much Playing time did Dayne get last year, not much!

And Denard appeared in all 12 games last year

Cam Newton played, and was Juco National Player of the year.

Neither sat on the sidelines like Dayne did. So, they had much, much more experience. So, you point is not informed!

 

[NDinL.A.]

You are comparing apples to oranges, and even then trying to hide how different the two are through your wording. Crist is a junior. He would be a red shirt sophomore at another school, he is not a freshman. He's 21 years old - stop comparing him to 18 and 19 year old kids. When I said his year is worse, I'm not talking strictly about statistics, I'm talking about visible potential. I'm concerned about long term issues. Jimmy showed immediate potential and it was obvious right from the start - he also had a laughable line (whereas Dayne has a decent one). Brady was a bit slower, but he still threw a nice ball. They both threw a good ball but made brutally stupid decisions. Dayne isn't throwing a nice ball, and that's the biggest concern of all.

Now I'm going to make a suggestion: stop talking in hyperbole, try talking like you're in a civilized setting with an equal rather than trying to attract "boom goes the dynamite" praise for you comments.

You're response to the concern about Dayne was initially "he's doing great", now it has become "Dayne has potential and will get better". The former I vehemently disagree with, and I think today is all the evidence you need that it's wrong. The latter I am not certain about based on my above comments about how his throws look.

Can you respond to that without any capital letters, insults or denigrating comments or is that the only way you can respond (which would suggest to me the absence of a rational response).

Your words were, "I haven't seen this bad of quarterback play since Brady's freshman year, and perhaps this is worse." Now you want to change it to that you were talking about 'visible potential'??? Nice try. Brady was awful his freshman year, he even said himself that he felt as if he weren't even being coached. And you won't find a bigger Clausen fan than me, and even I admit that he was awful his freshman year, and did not show the kind of potential that he would eventually get to. To say otherwise is revisionist history at its finest (and yes, his line and entire team sucked).

Crist has shown PLENTY of potential...if you haven't seen it it's because you are blinded by your desperation to be proven right. You don't put up the numbers he has without showing potential. You just don't. You're not even looking. The fact that you supported our pathetic defense and put all the blame on Crist shows your prejudice.

As for being a redshirt sophomore, I'm talking about years in a system. You look at it your way all you want; I'll look at it my way. He is learning a completely new system that requires completely different footwork and reads. And as far as age, look at Jimmy Clausen's age as a junior, and then get back to me. Nice try though.

Again, I'm not saying he doesn't need to improve. Hell yes he does. All I'm saying is give him more than 7 games before you proclaim him done and start asking for true freshmen that he has beaten out badly in practice, and in Rees' case, games. Seriously, to call for those guys is insane, sorry. Call that an attack or whatever, but it's true. Like I said, you were probably calling for Clausen's head and Brady's head, that is, if you were consistent.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I thought the entire team from the Coaching staff down to the players looked terrible.

Agree. Geez, talking about Crist, I actually posted that this was the best and most free looking he had looked all year in the first quarter. He stepped up, then took off running when he had to. I think the guy has speed and and power and should use it more. I guess his game took a different turn when we all saw the D couldn't stop a drunk from pissing on their wives.

In case anyone is wondering who gave Canadian all the green dots...umm...I did. I saw a red dot by his name last week and liked one or two of his posts, so I figured I'd add a green dot. Didn't expect for all the green dots to show up. lol.

I just got off the phone with my best ND analyst. He says nothing different than Canadian about Crist. Well, like NDinLa, I still back the QB, but think Kelly is trying too hard. So many other issues. Just look at his daily schedule that CBS posted. This actually caught my attention early in Kelly's days. Trying to do to much. But I digress. Heads are going to roll after this weekend. But I digress. I am so pissed. PISSED.

How bout we keep the conversation to football and disagreeing fervently about it, rather than getting personal. Let the anger and disagreements about what we think is happening rather than get personal with others. That's why I got banned. I was talking football, and someone got personal with me. I don't allow that.

And I predicted a 6-6 season just before getting banned. Anyone think I am that far off? I was talking football.

Gosh dang. I hate loving my ND.

 

[CanadianIrish]

Canadian you are way off base.

Has any of the other QB's you referenced have their Knee blown up last year? And then come back and shoulder their team less than a year after getting their knee blown up?

Did they. Did Cam or Denard have major surgery? Did they? Go ahead and rip, and overlook a huge issue. Just to make an uniformed point.

Yes he is 21, but he lost half of the season last year. So, how much coaching could he have gotten.

And the first two years most all of the reps and coaching went to Jimmy. I 100% disagree with your point.

You leave out a huge issue in a ACL Tear and he came out has has performed pretty dang well. It is our defense that is our cause. Dayne led us back against Michigan and Michigan State, and our D let us down. Sorry you are ripping on the wrong person.

I'll give him credit for the ACL, that's a fair response. But anybody reasonable has to admit his lack of development in terms of touch and accuracy in his time here is a real concern. He had one and a half years under Weis, and all his time with Kelly, and we're still seeing someone who is having trouble with mechanics, touch and accuracy. These are things that don't depend on the system.

As for Newton, he spent last year as JC, and the year before that was injured and the year before that was buried in Florida's depth chart - so he has definitely had less Div 1 coaching than Dayne. About Denard, he's had one year of coaching. Sure he wasn't injured like Dayne, but he's still had less time than him.

As I've said, this isn't just about his performance today it's about long standing issues that were identified when he was a high school student that have not gone away.

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Irishman3, because he is an uniformed poster with something against Dayne. A 1st year starter coming off major knee surgery in a new offense. And Canadian Irish thinks he should be a miracle worker.

Dayne was recruited for one type of offense, and now has had to learn a whole different one.

Dayne has had major knee surgery

Dayne has hardly played.

Dayne has done pretty well, not an All American. But, solid.

Dayne has had the nations best TE, but he has been hurt all year.

Dayne has a slot receiver who was a running back last year.

Dayne has a true freshman other receiver.

But, Dayne to some supposedly should be much better?????????

Come on!!!!!!!!!!!! He is a 1st year starter. We are a team that is building for the future, and if our recruits sign we will be better.

Support our players, don't rip. They all can get better. But, saying Dayne is no good is just not true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Denard had 1 year of coaching and 12 games of game experience. Actual game experience! You can be coached on the sidelines, but game time is so important. Sorry, I don't agree.

Under your thinking, a guy who has been coached for 3 years and plays his senior year, or redshirt Junior is more valuable than a guy who has 2 years of playing every game. Or even 1 year of playing every game? Getting coaching and game time????

Sorry I don't agree.

Brady and Jimmy got better because of Playing time and coaching. Not just coaching.

So, Denard and Cam got game time and coaching. 100% disagree with you.

 

[Irish Man3]

Irishman3, because he is an uniformed poster with something against Dayne. A 1st year starter coming off major knee surgery in a new offense. And Canadian Irish thinks he should be a miracle worker.

Dayne was recruited for one type of offense, and now has had to learn a whole different one.

Dayne has had major knee surgery

Dayne has hardly played.

Dayne has done pretty well, not an All American. But, solid.

Dayne has had the nations best TE, but he has been hurt all year.

Dayne has a slot receiver who was a running back last year.

Dayne has a true freshman other receiver.

But, Dayne to some supposedly should be much better?????????

Come on!!!!!!!!!!!! He is a 1st year starter. We are a team that is building for the future, and if our recruits sign we will be better.

Support our players, don't rip. They all can get better. But, saying Dayne is no good is just not true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AMEN broseph!

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

No problem. I thank God we have a talented QB like Dayne on this team. And he is going to do nothing but get better.

Go Dayne, I am one who thinks you are pretty dang good.

Get back on track Irish!!