How Much Longer Can ND Stand to be Independent?

[jrmurrey1234]

I was listening to an ESPN pod cast in regards to the secret Big Ten expansion meeting in D.C. and they are certain that the Big Ten will expand out to 14. This was an updated pod cast as of 10pm last night. Now the discussion focused on what ND's future would possibly look like. The AD has came out and stated that "times are changing," and if the Big Ten doesn't pull in ND, then the Big Ten will certainly pull in Big East conference schools. The Big East is going to want to replace those schools and ND is already in the Big East for every sport outside of football. It would be easy for the Big East to give ND the all or nothing scenerio.

Any thoughts on how joining a BCS conference would be good or bad for Notre Dame?

 

[kmoose]

This topic has been beaten like a dead horse, the past few years. But, it's a valid topic. I don't see joining a conference as good, or bad, for ND. Or should I say, I can see good AND bad in it. I think it is likely to happen, eventually. But I would say later rather than sooner. Give it 20 years, and I'm almost certain that ND will be playing football in a conference. Of course, that's only if the status quo, re the BCS/NC picture, remains relatively unchanged. I think the pressures will eventually force ND to join a conference. But I also think that ND will fight tooth and nail, to keep it from coming to that.

 

[phork]

My money is that within 5 years ND will be part of the new Big10(16).

 

[BirdmanND06]

Resistance is futile. We will be assimilated, probably within five years, unless something dramatic happens to change the college football landscape.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

So long as ND has the TV contract with NBC and ratings are good, ND can be independent as long as they damn please.

 

[jason_h537]

ND will stay independent as long as they can fill a full competitive schedule.

If they get to the point where they only play mac and conf usa teams with a few FCS teams then its time to join a conference. Til then theyre ok

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

This topic has been beaten like a dead horse, the past few years. But, it's a valid topic. I don't see joining a conference as good, or bad, for ND. Or should I say, I can see good AND bad in it. I think it is likely to happen, eventually. But I would say later rather than sooner. Give it 20 years, and I'm almost certain that ND will be playing football in a conference. Of course, that's only if the status quo, re the BCS/NC picture, remains relatively unchanged. I think the pressures will eventually force ND to join a conference. But I also think that ND will fight tooth and nail, to keep it from coming to that.

No offense Kmoose, you are as good as it gets, but that post is just ... funny.

Kinda like saying "I am all for jumping up. As well as down. Left, as well as right."

I shall now straighten my tie and walk off in a dignified manner.

 

[jrmurrey1234]

If all things remain the same in regards to the NCAA Football landscape, I believe that ND will have a more complete schedule and get a legit shot at the bowl game they deserve.

They would still be able to have the traditional shot at Stanford, USC, and Navy if they went to the Big East or Big Ten. They would have to compete in a conference tournament (Assuming the Big Ten follows through with their tournament plans) and they will earn a bowl shot based on that years performance and not the tradition associated with the name.

I'm getting tired of getting hounded when we are blown out in a bowl game. I'm sure I speak for many of us, when I say it has been tough to be an Irish fan lately. Im anxious to see what the Kelly era brings. I'm hoping a defense.

 

[DaLastFarleyite]

I think that ND can stay independent under most circumstances. I strongly agree with Polish Leppy 22 on the impact of the NBC contract. Keep the national contract and you have a lot of staying power.

I also agree with Jason h537, that as long as we can schedule BCS caliber teams, we should be OK as an independent.

As far as the Big East coming after ND if it gets raided by the Big 10 (JRMurrey1234)...........that could backfire for the Big East. For example, if they gave ND an all or nothing demand, ND could turn around and try to form a "National Catholic League" non-football conference. That would be the end of the Big East. Could you imagine DePaul, Marquette, Seton Hall, Providence, Dayton, Xavier, St Johns, Gonzaga, St Marys, Villanova, Georgetown, St. Louis, Creighton, Portland and ND in the same basketball league? Awesome. Don't know about the Olympic sports, but couldn't be too much different than the current Big East.

 

[BGIF]

Notre Dame not in any expansion mix

Posted by Mark Blaudschun, Boston Globe Staff April 21, 2010 02:35 PM

SCOTTSDALE, Arizona -- Much of the talk about Big Ten expansion has involved Notre Dame. But according to a source who is here at the BCS meetings and is familiar with the situation, Notre Dame has never been a serious player in the Big Ten's consideration and is not a player now.
"They haven't been in the mix for awhile,'' said the source. who did say that Big Ten expansion of three or five teams was very possible.
According to the source, Notre Dame is fairly confident that it can remain as a full independent in football and remain connected to the Big East--even a smaller all Catholic version of the Big East--which would protect not only basketball, but all of its other non-revenue producing sports.
So expansion is on the horizon and it should affect the Big Ten, the Big East, the SEC, the ACC, and the Big 12.
But Notre Dame? Not likely.

 

[JughedJones]

This topic has been beaten like a dead horse, the past few years. But, it's a valid topic. I don't see joining a conference as good, or bad, for ND. Or should I say, I can see good AND bad in it. I think it is likely to happen, eventually. But I would say later rather than sooner. Give it 20 years, and I'm almost certain that ND will be playing football in a conference. Of course, that's only if the status quo, re the BCS/NC picture, remains relatively unchanged. I think the pressures will eventually force ND to join a conference. But I also think that ND will fight tooth and nail, to keep it from coming to that.

kmoose: Does the 'k' stand for komma?

 

[phork]

If the likes of Nebraska, Missouri and/or Texas join the Big10, you can bet your britches that ND would follow.

 

[condoms SUCk]

If the likes of Nebraska, Missouri and/or Texas join the Big10, you can bet your britches that ND would follow.

to follow up on that, how awesome would it be to have ND, Nebraska, Texas, Michigan, Ohio St. and Penn St. all in the same conference. Just for the record I am for ND Independence, but I think it would be freak'n cool.

 

[condoms SUCk]

I may be alone on this, If I am I don't care. I just have this feeling that all this expansion talk by Jim Delany(SP?) is to try and get ND. I think he is PO'd that ND has turned them down again and the Big 10 came up with this plan as a way to force ND's hand. This is driven by the amount of money that ND brings in and I think he is betting of BK to bring ND back and he want to try and bring us in now. If they wait and ND is in the talk for NC's or winning BCS games the chances of ND joining the Big 10 are lowered and they would miss out on all the potential money that ND will be swimming in if a return to glory were achieved. The need to make a radial change to the land scape because other wise ND will stay where they are. If someone else has posted something similar sorry for repeating.

 

[GDomer09]

I'm all for whatever is best for the University. We join or we don't join, just as long as its the right decision at the time.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Coach Kelly Interview with Dan Patrick mainly about joining a conference or staying independent.

If you scroll down you can click on the video link to "see" the radio interview.

Coach Kelly Interview on Dan Patrick Show

 

[kmoose]

kmoose: Does the 'k' stand for komma?

I get royalties.

 

[laservet]

I may be alone on this, If I am I don't care. I just have this feeling that all this expansion talk by Jim Delany(SP?) is to try and get ND. I think he is PO'd that ND has turned them down again and the Big 10 came up with this plan as a way to force ND's hand. This is driven by the amount of money that ND brings in and I think he is betting of BK to bring ND back and he want to try and bring us in now. If they wait and ND is in the talk for NC's or winning BCS games the chances of ND joining the Big 10 are lowered and they would miss out on all the potential money that ND will be swimming in if a return to glory were achieved. The need to make a radial change to the land scape because other wise ND will stay where they are. If someone else has posted something similar sorry for repeating.

I have a friend who is peripherally involved in the discussions and he said ND isn't even being considered. FWIW.

How much does ND get from NBC for their contract extension? IIRC they were getting $9 mil per year before the extension. B10 teams each get about $22 mil per year for theirs. B12 teams are interested because they only get $7-12 mil per year. It's all about the bucks.

 

[G_Rob_B]

The Big 12 become the Big 10 and the Big Ten becomes the Big Sixteen? Missouri, Syacuse, Rutgers, Nebraska and Pitt to be added? Is this th seismic shakeup?

Big 10 Expansion at hand ?

"A source in St. Louis familiar with the situation told NewsCenter 16 this afternoon that Missouri will leave the Big XII and soon join the Big 10. Other schools expected to follow the Tigers are Syracuse, Pitt, Rutgers and Nebraska.

"Many have speculated that such an expansion would include Notre Dame but ND athletic director Jack Swarbrick told me today that the Irish prefer to stay independent in footballl and in the Big East for other sports."

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

I work 3rd shift and have 5 kids so please bare with me.

I work 3rd shift and have 5 kids so please bare with me.

Why dont invite more people to the Independent ? Like Boise or maybe couple Big 12 or Sec teams that are good but are never gonna beat the big boys . Screw joining them have them come to us. Sorry I dont sleep that much.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

We're screwed if we don't get in on the super-conference movement.

 

[phork]

We're screwed if we don't get in on the super-conference movement.

I agree 100%. The result of this shift is that the Big12 will no longer exist and the BigEast is going to crumble. Rutgers was added to the Big10 list as a red herring and the school that will get left out if ND decides to hook up.

Get on the bus, or get run over. NDs NBC contract is now peanuts compared to Big10 network revenues. Northwestern got a check for $22Million last year, how did ND do?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Either join the Big Ten or become a mid-major.

 

[johnnykillz]

I say we go to the Big 12.


lol.

 

[BillyIrish]

Scott Engler of NDNation weighed in on the subject. Good read...

NDNation Features: Choose Independence

Similarly, Notre Dame's decision to play a 7-4-1 schedule to get more gate receipts and television dollars is solely responsible for any scheduling difficulties.

None of the "environmental" arguments hold water. Yes, some teams wouldn't schedule Notre Dame going forward late in the season, but there are plenty that would have. If they aren't SEC or Big Ten teams, that doesn't matter. Most schools would walk on hot coals for a home and home half under the dome. There are 120 schools in the football bowl subdivision, the idea that with USC, ND couldn't find teams to play in the back half of the season is ludicrous. Move Navy there and schedule Army if necessary.

This is my biggest fear of ND staying independent. Teams make their push down the stretch. I believe playing a front-loaded schedule hurt Weis' teams and had something to do with their struggles in the last six games. While teams may have lined up to play a "home and home under the dome" in the past; in an era where ND is surrounded by "super-conferences" I think it may be a little different. Why would anyone play ND in November? Television used to be ND's trump card. That is hardly the case now. You have college football on 5 nights of the week. Scheduling is going to be Swarbrick's largest obstacle. If he can find a way to even the schedule, then there is no way ND should ever join a conference.

 

[phork]

No one will be playing ND in November since they'll all be deep into conference playoffs. The prevailing thought is that if the Big10(16) get all 16 teams there might be 4 subconferences and a 4 team playoff for the Big10.

 

[ryno 24]

We should stay independent we do not want to become just any other school joining a conference would be the only way we would become irrelevant

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

We should stay independent we do not want to become just any other school joining a conference would be the only way we would become irrelevant

Holy run-on and incorrect sentence, Batman!

 

[G_Rob_B]

Is it possible to get a win-win out of this? Clashmoremike has a good write up about how the Notre Dame BCS rule makes it more difficult for us to make a BCS game than if we were in a conference. So, is it possible to join a conference and yet keep all the best characteristics of being independent?

Would it be possible to be in a conference and still schedule games nationally and broadcast those games nationally? Aside from the notion that independence is part of the identity of Notre Dame, what about independence do we really value? Is it the ability maintain a schedule that has us playing on the west and east coasts, everywhere in between, and even in Ireland, to continue being a national brand, which also allows us to recruit nationally? If there was a 16 team super-conference with a 4 team playoff for the championship, how many games would each team have to play within that super-conference? If that number was sufficiently low, enabling us to schedule the remainder of the 12 games outside the conference, would that be satisfactory?

 

[kmoose]

Is it possible to get a win-win out of this? Clashmoremike has a good write up about how the Notre Dame BCS rule makes it more difficult for us to make a BCS game than if we were in a conference. So, is it possible to join a conference and yet keep all the best characteristics of being independent?

Would it be possible to be in a conference and still schedule games nationally and broadcast those games nationally? Aside from the notion that independence is part of the identity of Notre Dame, what about independence do we really value? Is it the ability maintain a schedule that has us playing on the west and east coasts, everywhere in between, and even in Ireland, to continue being a national brand, which also allows us to recruit nationally? If there was a 16 team super-conference with a 4 team playoff for the championship, how many games would each team have to play within that super-conference? If that number was sufficiently low, enabling us to schedule the remainder of the 12 games outside the conference, would that be satisfactory?

The two big problems that you run into, in my mind, are:

1. You lose your TV deal. No conference is going to allow ND to maintain a TV deal, separate from the conference's deal. Even if the Conference "Office" could see the benefit to the conference as a whole, the other member schools will pitch a fit, and shut it down. The conferences usually decide which games are aired on TV, as well, as part of the deal. No conference is going to put every ND game on TV, at the "expense" of the other member institutions.

2. You lose almost ALL flexibility in your schedule. The conference schedule is set by the Conference, not the individual schools. So let's say that ND joins the Big Ten. The conference tells them that they will play Indiana, on Oct. 18th. Florida comes along and says to ND, "We really want to play you, but the only open date we can come up with is Oct. 18th." It's not like ND and Indiana can just get together and reschedule that game. The conference office is going to have approve any such deal. And they won't. They won't risk losing "control" of the schedule, by allowing two teams to set the precedent of moving a game without the conference's involvement and consent.