Mort says Clausen is 1st rounder, but not top 5

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

Tom Brady and Peyton Manning do not have great mobility but Clausen has shown tremendous pocket presence all season. I dont know what you are referring to when you say Clausen just takes sacks, maybe its when the o-line lets someone come in clean and he has no where to go but when the pocket breaks down he has stepped up or avoided sacks all year. That is not an opinion that is a fact.

Brady & Manning don't have great mobility?
Come on. I kinda expected you to say that, Brady has been cautious on his knee but Manning is definetly one of the most mobile QB's in the NFL.

You are clearly unable to seperate the difference between being mobile and having a prime 40 time.

The problem with your opinion, which isn't fact, is that Clausen has not stepped up or avoided sakcs when the pocket breaks down. How many times have you seen him force the ball in play because hes between the hash marks and can't get out of the pocket to throw the ball away? He has to learn this when he gets to the NFL.

Pike and Bradford are hurt by the fact that they dont run pro style offenses and that was one of the knocks and Bradford last year. LeFevour is NOT a first round pick.

Bradford and Pike are not hurt by the fact that they dont run pro style offenses and there was not any knock on Bradford last year, considering he was unanimously projected to be the #1 pick in 2009 if he declared.

A spread offense QB gets hurt by the offense when they are system QB's that utilize the spread option such as a Tim Tebow,Pat White, or Dennis Dixon. A pass heavy spread offense doesn't hurt the QB when they show the ability to make the throws needed of them and display good arm strength and accuracy. Another key is their size, Bradford is 6'4 and Pike is 6'6. What I just bolded is what seperates guys like Bradford's NFL potential from a guy like a Graham Harrell or Colt Brennan.

 

[Riddickulous]

Anybody who believes Mallett or Locker are better prospects than Clausen is insane. Mallett has not had a single good game against a legitimate team and Locker is all potential.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

Absolutely I believe that. One of things that scouts told Bradford that they wanted to see from him this year is him coming from under center. I just wrote this on another thread, but running the spread is sooooooo different than running a pro-style offense, and much easier. What Jimmy has already demonstrated to pro scouts is that he can run that type of offense, with site adjustments from the line of scrimmage that he and his receiver have to make in seconds.

Im referring to their stocks, of course scouts want to see Bradford or a Pike take snaps under center but it does not hurt a QB come draft time, unless they demonstrate an elongated windup like Andre Woodson did a few years ago.

With the way most spread are running right now, the teams aren't huddling up, they run straight to the line of scrimmage, see what personnel the defense has in the game, and then the QB looks to the sideline for what to do. The coach has way more control over what will happen. That doesn't happen in the pros. There's a reason not as many spread QBs are as successful as pro-style QBs in the PROS. There's a reason Mark Sanchez shot up the draft boards, while guys with more college success like Dennis Dixon and Pat White are drafted far lower...

I completely disagree, Dixon never showed the arm strength or accuracy of a Mark Sanchez. It had nothing to do with the system he ran with the run & shoot spread at Oregon, it was clearly due to the talent level. He also suffered a serious injury and dropped due to that as well. On the same token John David Booty from the same pro style offense that was used by Pete Carroll, became a 5th rounder solely because he didn't have the NFL arm strength or accuracy.

Pat White didn't demonstrate his arm strength or accuracy much at West Virginia because running the spread option at WVU he was mainly showcased as a runner. He actually shot up the draft boards during workouts where he displayed NFL level arm strength and accuracy in his workouts.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I stopped reading after you said Manning was mobile. He is about as unmobile as you can get. I would be surprised if he could beat a cripple in a foot race.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

Anybody who believes Mallett or Locker are better prospects than Clausen is insane. Mallett has not had a single good game against a legitimate team and Locker is all potential.

Clausen had a good game against a legitimate defense?

 

[jason_h537]

Brady & Manning don't have great mobility?
Come on. I kinda expected you to say that, Brady has been cautious on his knee but Manning is definetly one of the most mobile QB's in the NFL.

You are clearly unable to seperate the difference between being mobile and having a prime 40 time.

The problem with your opinion, which isn't fact, is that Clausen has not stepped up or avoided sakcs when the pocket breaks down. How many times have you seen him force the ball in play because hes between the hash marks and can't get out of the pocket to throw the ball away? He has to learn this when he gets to the NFL.



Bradford and Pike are not hurt by the fact that they dont run pro style offenses and there was not any knock on Bradford last year, considering he was unanimously projected to be the #1 pick in 2009 if he declared.

A spread offense QB gets hurt by the offense when they are system QB's that utilize the spread option such as a Tim Tebow,Pat White, or Dennis Dixon. A pass heavy spread offense doesn't hurt the QB when they show the ability to make the throws needed of them and display good arm strength and accuracy. Another key is their size, Bradford is 6'4 and Pike is 6'6. What I just bolded is what seperates guys like Bradford's NFL potential from a guy like a Graham Harrell or Colt Brennan.

Mobility and Pocket presence are 2 different things. Clausen has only forced the ball once all year and that was at halftime against Purdue. How about aganist Stanford on 3rd down when they sent the house and Clausen stepped up and pitched it to Hughes for a 1st down. Or when he moved oputside an threw the ball away. those are forced throws? Bradford was a high pick in a down year last year when only Stafford was considered a real QB prospect.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

I stopped reading after you said Manning was mobile. He is about as unmobile as you can get. I would be surprised if he could beat a cripple in a foot race.

You obviously are unable to seperate being a mobile QB from having a prime 40 time.

Do you see Manning giving up sacks because he can't move?

 

[fortwayne_nd]

I stopped reading after you said Manning was mobile. He is about as unmobile as you can get. I would be surprised if he could beat a cripple in a foot race.

Manning and Usain Bolt...dead heat in the 100 meter. I guess the guy has never seen Manning run. Sweet, sweet music.

 

[DCirishfan]

Anybody who believes Mallett or Locker are better prospects than Clausen is insane. Mallett has not had a single good game against a legitimate team and Locker is all potential.

I actually do think that Mallett might be a better prospect. I don't think I am insane. Not Locker though, I agree with you on that one.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

Mobility and Pocket presence are 2 different things. Clausen has only forced the ball once all year and that was at halftime against Purdue.

Clausen keeps the ball in play when there isn't a play to be made but he hasn't suffered for it this season, what about when Stanford blitzed in the 4th and he still threw the ball in double coverage to Floyd?

How about aganist Stanford on 3rd down when they sent the house and Clausen stepped up and pitched it to Hughes for a 1st down. Or when he moved oputside an threw the ball away. those are forced throws? Bradford was a high pick in a down year last year when only Stafford was considered a real QB prospect.

You're specifically talking about 1 occasion, there have been numerous times this season when he threw the ball in play or took a sack for holding the ball for too long. You should go check the Navy game as an example. If he were able to get to the outside and at least pick up 3 yards he would be showing something to scouts.

Do you believe the 2010 Draft is a down year compared to the 2009 Draft? Sanchez wasn't a real QB prospect? Freeman wasn't viewed as having the highest upside of QB prospects available?

 

[NDinL.A.]

I completely disagree, Dixon never showed the arm strength or accuracy of a Mark Sanchez. It had nothing to do with the system he ran with the run & shoot spread at Oregon, it was clearly due to the talent level. He also suffered a serious injury and dropped due to that as well. On the same token John David Booty from the same pro style offense that was used by Pete Carroll, became a 5th rounder solely because he didn't have the NFL arm strength or accuracy.

Pat White didn't demonstrate his arm strength or accuracy much at West Virginia because running the spread option at WVU he was mainly showcased as a runner. He actually shot up the draft boards during workouts where he displayed NFL level arm strength and accuracy in his workouts.

Those were the first 2 guys that came into my head. You don't understand the position if you don't think pro scouts aren't looking for guys that runthe pro-style offense in college over the spread. I just looked up an article. Here's a good quote which backs what I was saying about being under center all the time:

"If he's never played under center and never taken snaps, that's different ... it's a different skill to do all the things you do from the gun from under center,'' said Broncos coach Josh McDaniels, who coached the Patriots quarterbacks and was the team's offensive coordinator before taking the Broncos job. "Your footwork in the running game is awkward, your takeaway from center, your drops are shorter than you're used to. Now the line is right in your face, or that's your perception because you've played back for so long, now your reads are cloudier. Instead of looking downfield, you're looking at the guys right in front of you."

Or this:

"The biggest challenge for guys who have spent pretty much their whole college careers — and even nowadays, their whole high school careers — lined up in the shotgun and now they've got to learn to get up underneath center, they've got to learn to take a snap, learn to take a full drop,'' said Air Force head coach Troy Calhoun, a former NFL quarterbacks coach. "I think that's, fundamentally, one of those simple skills that just got skipped over to go play college football.

"And then they find it's tough to take that full drop behind center, a five- or seven-step drop, because at that level, in the NFL, the ball has to be released immediately without taking a gather or a hitch step. Guys just aren't able to get the ball out when it has to be released."

It's that timing, timing with receivers, timing in offenses built around getting the ball to a certain spot in a given amount of time that is the biggest issue.

Pro scouts have been burned by spread QBs enough to know that dropback QBs in college translate to success more often that spread QBs do. Not to say that no spread QBs can make it, not at all, just saying, the Gms will look at pro-style QBs first (which is why you see Clausen and Locker ahead of Tebow, McCoy and Bradford on most mock drafts...

 

[jason_h537]

You dont throw 4 picks in a season, 2 of which are not his fault by forcing throws. If no one is open on 4th down you better force a ball because its a turn over now matter what. He has used his check doen all year and that is not just one example that has been the story all year. We must be watching different games because Clausen does not force and has shown incredible pocket presence all year.

You reffering to Clausen being able to get 3 yards is comparing him to a mobile QB because Manning wont pick up 3 yards. Sanchez only joined the draft because Bradford did not so he knew he would be a sure 1st rounder.

 

[Riddickulous]

Clausen keeps the ball in play when there isn't a play to be made but he hasn't suffered for it this season, what about when Stanford blitzed in the 4th and he still threw the ball in double coverage to Floyd?

It looked like Clausen was going to throw the ball over top the second defender to Floyd, was hit, and the ball fell short.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

Those were the first 2 guys that came into my head. You don't understand the position if you don't think pro scouts aren't looking for guys that runthe pro-style offense in college over the spread. I just looked up an article.

Obviously they would like a pro style offense QB, but you still can't dispute the fact that arm strength, accuracy, mobility, and offensive knowledge is key to a QB's stock in the draft. I mentioned John David Booty who is currently a practice squad QB because he didn't have those key factors although he was in a NFL pro style offense at USC.

The same can be said for Jason White who won a Heisman in the spread at Oklahoma but went undrafted because he didn't have those factors for a NFL QB, however with Bradford running almost exactly the same offense he is considered a Top 10 pick.

Pro scouts have been burned by spread QBs enough to know that dropback QBs in college translate to success more often that spread QBs do. Not to say that no spread QBs can make it, not at all, just saying, the Gms will look at pro-style QBs first (which is why you see Clausen and Locker ahead of Tebow, McCoy and Bradford on most mock drafts...

Thats not true. There have been just as many spread QB's who have failed in the NFL as there have been college dropback QB's. What counts has always been whether or not they have what it takes to play QB.

McCoy has a knock because hes undersized, and doesn't throw the ball deep much to showcase his arm.
Tebow has a knock because he doesn't throw the ball enough, and runs a gimmicky spread at Florida.

The only Mock Draft that holds weight is DraftCountdown in my opinion, Locker is at #2,Bradford is at #4,Clausen is at #9,Tebow is at #14,and McCoy is at #29.

 

[WhoDeyIrish]

McCoy is short. Reminds me of Jeff Garcia. Unorthadix throwing motion and undersized, playes in the shotgun. Like Tebow he will be a mid round pick and a project

Tebow might actually go early, I think he brings a different sort of dynamic for a football team. I don't really honestly think that he is going to be a great NFL QB, but I think he could evolve the game just a bit, for a football team. Colt McCoy, honestly wouldn't draft him with a 5th round pick. He can't throw the ball deep...He can't make NFL throws. He could not make the 15 yard out throw. He can throw quick 5 yard passes and screens well though. 15 yard out nope.

 

[Merlin]

what's an annalist is that like an anal list?

No...it's a list of anna's, I'll leave the anal thing to you!?!

 

[Domer4ever]

I agree with Mort here. I follow the NFL draft pretty extensively and I see Clausen as falling somewhere in the top 20 picks but not the top five. There is going to be some elite defensive talent at the top end of the draft this year and I still think there are a handfull of guys at QB that could go before Clausen including; Ryan Mallett, Jake Locker, and a healthy Sam Bradford.

I love Clausen and what he has done for Notre Dame, but looking at him from an NFL standpoint I think my biggest complaints would be the fact that does not have great athleticisim and he is not physically that big. Can he take the pounding he is going to endure at an NFL level? I think he has shown great toughness at the college level, but he has also shown a tendancy to get dinged up. What is going to happen to him when guys like Jared Allen or Mario Williams roll up on him instead of a 240 pound Navy DE? I am also going to call BS on the 6'3" he is listed as. I am guessing he is much closer to 6' and change, which will drop his stock.

 

[DCirishfan]

Jimmy is not 6' but also not 6'3, his in the middle I think. Many qb's are smallish as junior's but his ability to throw beautiful accurate passes will propel him up the draftboards as draft day comes closer. Teams become more in love with potential franchise qbs as the daft gets closer and those dt's and o lineman that were ahead of them suddenly start to fall.

 

[patman1868]

I would be willing to bet that Jimmy is between 6'2'' and 6'3'' which is fine, you do not have to be a giant to play QB in the NFL, he also looks like he has added some bulk before this season. I have seen him compared to Aaron Rodgers who is only 6'2'' but is still a very good QB. He may not have great speed or anything, but has learned how to manipulate the pocket in order to buy himself time. Jimmy, has the quick release and has very good accuracy and zip on the short and intermediate routes. Does he have the laser, rocket arm? No, but guys like Jamarcus Russell, Kyle Boller, and Rex Grossman do and they are awful NFL QB's. Jimmy certainly has enough arm strength and is very accurate with his deep balls. I think it will be very interesting who ends up getting the number one QB spot between guys like Bradford, Locker and Clausen, because at this point it certainly seems up for grabs.

 

[Allocco 121975]

I don't think that any of todays teams with needs , want another Russell . Boller or Grossman.

 

[Domer4ever]

I think it will be very interesting who ends up getting the number one QB spot between guys like Bradford, Locker and Clausen, because at this point it certainly seems up for grabs.

If Mallett from Arkansas declares early, I can guarantee that he will be the first QB selected if not the first overall player selected (dependant upon team need).

 

[JefMaj]

Kiper had him at #8.

 

[Sam Crow]

go clausen

 

[GoingGreen]

Look at where they have Clausen going here - WalterFootball.com: 2010 NFL Mock Draft

 

[NDinL.A.]

If Mallett from Arkansas declares early, I can guarantee that he will be the first QB selected if not the first overall player selected (dependant upon team need).

Guarantee? Go look at every single mock draft. Not one of them has Mallett listed above Clausen or Locker. A lot have him behind Bradford, Tebow and McCoy as well. He might be ahead of them when all is said and done, but not likely, and definitely not 'guarantee' worthy. And first overall...holy smokes what are you snorting man? I don't see how you can guarantee that when No one else is saying that, and these are people that get paid a lot of money to follow these things...

 

[Little Gipper]

No, he'll go top 5.

Why should he go pro anyway? Why not stay one more year? He'll stay more valuable then.

 

[Allocco 121975]

Why should he go pro anyway? Why not stay one more year? He'll stay more valuable then.

For number 1 , there will be a cap on the money that rookies will get after this draft. So his value is now at the max .

Number 2 , he is almost finished his degree. Most potential pro choices leave school and start working with a pre draft outlet lik ethe one that Tom Conden runs for his clients.

They specifically target weaknesses and work to eliminate them and make them more attractive for the combine and draft.

JC started ND early and needs something like a semester to finish his degree. That can be done later in the off season!

 

[phgreek]

ESPN's Chris Mortensen says Clausen will be drafted in round 1, but won't be a top 5 pick. He suggested that junior QBs like Clausen have to be careful about coming out early because NFL guys will pick over their skills at the combine. I don't know how that's different from any other QB unless the guy is so damn hyped he skips the group thing and does private workouts. I don't see any of those in this draft, unless Bradford thinks he's good enough to do it.

On the "Chuck is History" front, Adam Schefter reports that NFL teams have already contacted Chuck to inquire about his interest in offensive coordinator jobs.

Really depends on the needs of 1-5...chances are a 1-5 needs a franchise QB...

If a team sitting at 1-5 needs a QB...who the hell else would they take over Jimmy...Tebone? seriously? in a pro set...not happening. Bradford?...busted goods. McCoy...its possible, but I think Jimmy is a better Passer...McCoy a proven leader...its a toss up there. Jimmy has a legit shot to be #1, a high probability at 2-5, and he'll be in the top 10.

 

[Gipper]

God just don't let it be to Oakland. A death sentence for sure.

 

[ND_HAS_RISEN]

Obviously they would like a pro style offense QB, but you still can't dispute the fact that arm strength, accuracy, mobility, and offensive knowledge is key to a QB's stock in the draft. I mentioned John David Booty who is currently a practice squad QB because he didn't have those key factors although he was in a NFL pro style offense at USC.

There are only two knocks on Jimmy.

1- His pocket presence is a bit suspect. He needs to learn to step up into the pocket or sidestep a rush much better. This has nothing to do with mobility though. Ben Roethlisberger is not a mobile QB at all, but his pocket presence is superb.

2- The only other knock on him is his ability to go to the middle of the field. He never utilized Kyle Rudolph as much as he should have. He is excellent at his check downs to the middle of the field, ie dumps to RB's or slow developing drag routes, but middle posts or fly patterns definitely seemed to be overlooked by Clausen.

Those two things being said though, the positives that Jimmy possesses far outweigh the negatives.

1- He can make EVERY NFL throw. The NFL is about sustaining drives and gaining first downs. You do this by throwing 10-15 yds out patterns on a dime. Slants that are accurately passed in stride. Curls that are passed before the receiver makes his break straight in the numbers. He EXCEL's at these throws. He throws an excellent fade route as well. His deep ball does play a bit high, but I think that’s more suited to the receivers that he had and trusted. He has the arm strength to throw the ball deep, not Jamarcus Russel deep (like this matters) , but deep enough.

2- He plays in a PROVEN pro style offense. This offense that Charlie brought out is the same offense he ran with the Patriots. That offense works extremely well in the NFL, and Jimmy would have a step on every single prospect in this category.

3- He is VERY smart. Given time to adjust to NFL zones schemes and he will learn to pick them apart.

4- His toughness has been tested and proven. This kid was beat up his entire career at ND and he ALWAYS stood up and withstood everything. This is a measureable you CANNOT teach or coach.



Anyway you slice it, Jimmy is a for-sure 1st round draft pick. And if the teams decide to pass on him and he is given a better opportunity playing behind a solid line, he will show all the teams who passed on him what they missed.

Jimmy will be sorely missed by ND, and as far as skills go, he's the best QB I have seen fielded at Notre Dame.