I don't think a good college coach will come to ND ...

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

The only way it would be easier at Cincy to become a legend than at ND is because the standards for becoming a legend there are far far far inferior to the standards to become a legend at ND are. As much as I hate Urban Meyer, I think his ego is big enough to think "hmm I could turn that program around and become a national hero... how many coaches win multiple national championships at two different schools? hmmm.." Why come to ND? It is a bigger stage. When schools like Cincy play, the city watches, when Florida plays, the state watches, but when ND plays, the nation watches.

If Urban comes to Notre Dame and wins multiple national championships he would have to be considered for being among the greatest Head Coaches of All-Time in college football, not just at Notre Dame.

Meyer is 45 and has already won as many NC's as Paterno & Bowden.

If he coaches for another 25 years he could very well reach Bear Bryant's record.

 

[DomeX2 eNVy]

i have to admit, when i think of legends, i think more about coaches who sustained strong football programs over a long period of time.

I tend to agree with this statement, but I think the 21st century is totally different. 30+ years ago, the money wasn't there. It was better to sustain a program and become a legend. Today's world is about quick money and instant gratification. You see this in business with CEOs and executives having little loyalty. You see it in the stock market and the volatility created by short trading - it is harder to get rich with the old 'buy and hold' strategy. Look at the free agent markets in sports, it is about what can I get now. While arguably not morally correct, it is understandable. 21st century information and communications have made this an instant society.
I think most (not all) modern coaches (not the octagenerian ones) understand this and will go to the best situation for today. Often that means the most money and I don't balme them. Most of us on this board feel JC and Golden are justified if he goes pro - why, the opportunity for the money.
Plus why wouldn't you want to coach ND, you don't even have to be good and ESPN will give you a broadcast position . . . which you don't even have to be good at that either (and I'm not referring to Coach Holtz).

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

Winning at Cincy = being the next "up and comer"

Winning at ND = being the next "legend in waiting"

Winning at ND is completely different from just Winning.

 

[kmoose]

Winning at ND is completely different from just Winning.

Well, yes. But in order to discuss becoming a legend, don't we have to assume that the theoretical coach(es) in question are winning? If they aren't, then there isn't much point to debating their legendary status, now is there?

 

[NDinL.A.]

First of all tuna....RON RIVERA?????? wtf??? That is your replacement? My Lord, you lose ALL credibility when you say things like that. There is no way in hell, after what just happened these 5 yrs with CW, that Ron Rivera would ever even be considered. His name will never even be brought up in a meeting. Not even close.

2nd of all, you are underappreciating the difference between winning at ND and winning at almost any other school out there. There's a reason that an unranked ND team's loss last night to an unranked UConn team lead off Sportscenter and was the story of the night/morning, while 8th ranked LSU's epic blunder vs a formerly 5th-ranked team and the OU/AZ OT thriller was buried behind it. There's a reason why every ND loss is way bigger than any Cinci win. There's a reason that Rose-Bowl bound Ohio St's win over bitter rival Mich in one of the most storied rivalry games in the nation was also an afterthought after ND's loss. There's a reason why a storied program like Michigan's coaching woes are a blip on Sportscenter and The Sports Reporters and First Take and all the blogs compared to ND's coaching woes. It's because ND is completely different than those universities.

If you win at ND, you become a god, a legend. If you win at Cinci or TCU, you become the next possible head coach at ND. Do you get the difference?

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

Well, yes. But in order to discuss becoming a legend, don't we have to assume that the theoretical coach(es) in question are winning? If they aren't, then there isn't much point to debating their legendary status, now is there?

At Notre Dame winning=winning National Championships and/or competing yearly for National Championships

At Cincy winning=winning and going to Bowl Games

 

[Dacian_Irish]

To become a legend. Name me one coaching legend from TCU, Cincy, or Stanford NOT named Bill Walsh?(hint: there are some, but I bet you can't come up with them off of the top of your head)

All of the kind of guys that ND would attract, are the kind of guys who "just know" that they can succeed. They know that, if they win, any controversy will be minimal, as long as it isn't legal/disciplinary in nature.

How about Pop Warner? He won a national championship at Stanford.

 

[thetuna]

First of all tuna....RON RIVERA?????? wtf??? That is your replacement? My Lord, you lose ALL credibility when you say things like that. There is no way in hell, after what just happened these 5 yrs with CW, that Ron Rivera would ever even be considered. His name will never even be brought up in a meeting. Not even close.

2nd of all, you are underappreciating the difference between winning at ND and winning at almost any other school out there. There's a reason that an unranked ND team's loss last night to an unranked UConn team lead off Sportscenter and was the story of the night/morning, while 8th ranked LSU's epic blunder vs a formerly 5th-ranked team and the OU/AZ OT thriller was buried behind it. There's a reason why every ND loss is way bigger than any Cinci win. There's a reason that Rose-Bowl bound Ohio St's win over bitter rival Mich in one of the most storied rivalry games in the nation was also an afterthought after ND's loss. There's a reason why a storied program like Michigan's coaching woes are a blip on Sportscenter and The Sports Reporters and First Take and all the blogs compared to ND's coaching woes. It's because ND is completely different than those universities.

If you win at ND, you become a god, a legend. If you win at Cinci or TCU, you become the next possible head coach at ND. Do you get the difference?

Ron Rivera <> Charlie Weis. I don't even understand your point here. Is it that since Charlie Weis was an OC in the NFL and he didn't work here we can't hire Ron Rivera who is a DC in the NFL? That makes no sense. If you don't like the guy, fine, but he has nothing in common with Charlie Weis. There are plenty of ex-coordinators from the NFL who are winning with regularity as head coaches at major programs.

And the reason we led Sports Center is because of the fire Charlie Weis watch.

And I do get the difference, but that was in the past. All the ND job has gotten people in the last 40 years is fired - except for Lou.

 

[Master Guns]

I like Ron Rivera too.

Hes probably had opportunities but hes never coached in college before.

I need him back with the Bears.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Ron Rivera <> Charlie Weis. I don't even understand your point here. Is it that since Charlie Weis was an OC in the NFL and he didn't work here we can't hire Ron Rivera who is a DC in the NFL? That makes no sense. If you don't like the guy, fine, but he has nothing in common with Charlie Weis. There are plenty of ex-coordinators from the NFL who are winning with regularity as head coaches at major programs.

We just went down that road with CW. He was never a head coach. Do you really think the alumni will go for that again with Ron Rivera? Do you really think the admin will go down that route again? Really? And how many rings does he Rivera have? Hell, he was a DC, and TOOK A DEMOTION to be be LB's coach for the Chargers after being let go by the Bears. He'd be a downgrade from CW. So my point remains the same...Ron Rivera's name will never be brought up in a meeting with our AD and the admin. Ever. It's a pipe dream for you and a bad example. The fact that you are saying he's "probably had opportunities to coach college but never has" tells me you are guessing with him and know nothing about his background.

And the reason we led Sports Center is because of the fire Charlie Weis watch.

Exactly. Thank you for proving my point, even though you didn't want to. When the Cinci coach is on the hot seat, he doesn't lead Sportcenter. Even when the Michigan coach is on the hot seat, and plays a nationally ranked opponent in their biggest game of the year, they don't lead Sportscenter. ND does, and that's why winning at ND makes you a god, while winning at Cinci makes you the next candidate to coach at ND.

And I do get the difference, but that was in the past. All the ND job has gotten people in the last 40 years is fired - except for Lou.

Are you even paying attention? Or do you just like making my points for me only to contradict yourself in your next statement? Again, if all that was in the past, then why do we still lead Sportscenter and First Take and The Sports Reporters??? Oh, that's right...BECAUSE WE ARE STILL RELEVANT, whether you want to admit it or not.

I'm starting to agree with the masses...you're brand new here and are already bagging on the university a la a troll...

 

[thetuna]

The fact that you are saying he's "probably had opportunities to coach college but never has" tells me you are guessing with him and know nothing about his background.

I never said that.

Exactly. Thank you for proving my point, even though you didn't want to. When the Cinci coach is on the hot seat, he doesn't lead Sportcenter. Even when the Michigan coach is on the hot seat, and plays a nationally ranked opponent in their biggest game of the year, they don't lead Sportscenter. ND does, and that's why winning at ND makes you a god, while winning at Cinci makes you the next candidate to coach at ND.

The Rich Rod move to Michigan from WVU led Sports Center for 2 months straight


Are you even paying attention? Or do you just like making my points for me only to contradict yourself in your next statement? Again, if all that was in the past, then why do we still lead Sportscenter and First Take and The Sports Reporters??? Oh, that's right...BECAUSE WE ARE STILL RELEVANT, whether you want to admit it or not.

I'm starting to agree with the masses...you're brand new here and are already bagging on the university a la a troll...

I didn't contradict anything. We are RELEVANT, but that doesn't make the ND job a GREAT job. It means the magnifying glass is squarely on you. It will always be negative attention until a Championship is won

Also, just because some one disagrees with you doesn't mean you have to be so arrogant about it. Up until 3 weeks ago you were still convinced Charlie Weis was a GREAT coach.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

You're insane if you don't think ND is one of the most desirable jobs in the nation. If you don't want scrutiny in your life don't get a job and live in your mom's basement.

 

[phork]

Thanks Capt.Obvious

I dont think Patterson or Kelly or Harbaugh would leave for Notre Dame unless we pay them big money, but I dont see any of them being worth $3 Million per year.

I want a guy who has leadership qualities, a track record of developing talent whether as a position coach or HC, and would value this job like we as fans do.

You mean like Kelly has done at 3 schools now?

I'd be cool with Ron Rivera. He doesn't have much college coaching experience though.

Wow thats a good one.

Odds seem better to become a legend at Cincy than take the risk at ND.

We haven't produced a legendary coach in 4 decades with the arguable exception of Holtz.

Be a legend at Cincy, in Cincy. Be a legend at ND and be a National Hero for the most part.

Winning at Cincy = being the next "up and comer"

Winning at ND = being the next "legend in waiting"

Yessir.

At Notre Dame winning=winning National Championships and/or competing yearly for National Championships

At Cincy winning=winning and going to Bowl Games

I'm pretty sure that agenda has changed.

 

[General Colon Bowel]

At Cincy, when Brian Kelly goes undefeated he gets a #5 ranking and an orange bowl bid. He can't get the recruits, exposure, fanbase, or favor at Cincy that it takes to win a national championship.
If he thinks he has what it takes to win a championship, then he'll want to come to Notre Dame.

 

[ndirish302000]

Again, Holtz is arguable. Take him out of the equation and a legend hasn't walked the sidelines in 40 years.

I'm sorry but I can't let this go... Holtz is definitely a legend, in every sense of the word. Lou is the only coach ever to lead 6 different programs to bowl games, win 5 bowl games with different teams, and lead 4 different programs to season ending top 20 rankings. He did all this while never inheriting a team that had a winning record in the season before he got there. He's in the hall of fame and he was awarded the Man of the Year award in 1998 by the Walter Camp Foundation. What else needs to be done to be considered a legend?

 

[irishfan]

I'm sorry but I can't let this go... Holtz is definitely a legend, in every sense of the word. Lou is the only coach ever to lead 6 different programs to bowl games, win 5 bowl games with different teams, and lead 4 different programs to season ending top 20 rankings. He did all this while never inheriting a team that had a winning record in the season before he got there. He's in the hall of fame and he was awarded the Man of the Year award in 1998 by the Walter Camp Foundation. What else needs to be done to be considered a legend?

Not to mention he received his Doctorate from ESPN.

 

[NDMontana]

I think the likelihood of ND attracting a good coach is greatly increased in comparison to when Charlie was hired because he has proven that you can recruit good talent despite the standards in place.

 

[The hawaiianassassin]

Ron Rivera <> Charlie Weis. I don't even understand your point here. Is it that since Charlie Weis was an OC in the NFL and he didn't work here we can't hire Ron Rivera who is a DC in the NFL? That makes no sense. If you don't like the guy, fine, but he has nothing in common with Charlie Weis. There are plenty of ex-coordinators from the NFL who are winning with regularity as head coaches at major programs.

And the reason we led Sports Center is because of the fire Charlie Weis watch.

And I do get the difference, but that was in the past. All the ND job has gotten people in the last 40 years is fired - except for Lou.

then why say the last forty years its only 13 LOL just quit fighting children before the mods put in the corner but he is right cincy cant compare to the sweat off ND's nut sack

 

[NDMontana]

then why say the last forty years its only 13 LOL just quit fighting children before the mods put in the corner but he is right cincy cant compare to the sweat off ND's nut sack

Well Cincinatti--with less talent--is laying waste to the Big East, a conference that ND is 0-6 against in the last two years so....

As far as coaches only getting fired, they go one way or the other. A lot of coaches that resign or retire are allowed to do so out of respect for their contributions to the program. Plus, the last 40 years are a bad base of comparison because the number of attractive schools in the country has increased greatly, ratcheting up the competition for recruits and bowls. Power isn't consolidated in 9-10 schools as it was from 1950 through the mid-80's. Maybe this is news to some of you but Florida, Florida State, Miami and a lot of other schools are newcomers to the powerhouse program stratosphere.

Also, for many years Notre Dame always honored their coaches contracts and honored the entire length of their contracts. Davie, Willingham and Weis are really the only firings in the last 40 years; other coaches weren't fired, their contracts weren't renewed.

 

[NDinFL]

how's about you name me 3 head coaches that have coached at TCU....ever excluding Patterson, what a stupid comparison...lmao