Reasons to Keep/Fire Weis

[timm3117]

Why would Kelly even leave Cincinatti? He has a good team in a pretty weak conference and he doesn't have to play SC,MICH, or anybody of that level every year. I don't have Cincy's schedule in front of me, but what is the best team they have played this year?

Well they have beaten 2 (Oregon St, South Fla) teams that were ranked when they played, and still have Pitt #13 and 7-2 West Virginia (who will be ranked this week) on the Schedule.

 

[DirtySecret]

Chris Peterson, phork! LMAO, you know Dan Hawkins builded BSU into what they are. Speaking of Dan Hawkins, how is he fairing out at Colorado? Has he had a winning season, yet? I don't buy into non BCS coaches. I believe Peterson wouldn't survive in a BCS conference.

Back on subject..


Weis continue to lack player development. I don't care how many top stud you bring in, if you can't develop'em they're not worth a shit. Look at Ron Zook, he had great talent at Florida but never really develop it.

 

[Catsudon]

Before you can fire the guy, you have to find out who would be available to coach in his place. I couldn't tell you, but I don't think that there is much out there. He will be here through at least next year, I think.

it's also a mistake to take other people's reject. unless of course, they were unjustly dismissed. and the other option is to overpaid for someone who's doing well. it's hard to do that when we're not doing so well, but on the plus side, it's notre dame, a dream job for many people.

 

[phork]

Chris Peterson, phork! LMAO, you know Dan Hawkins builded BSU into what they are. Speaking of Dan Hawkins, how is he fairing out at Colorado? Has he had a winning season, yet? I don't buy into non BCS coaches. I believe Peterson wouldn't survive in a BCS conference.

Back on subject..


Weis continue to lack player development. I don't care how many top stud you bring in, if you can't develop'em they're not worth a shit. Look at Ron Zook, he had great talent at Florida but never really develop it.

Non-BCS coaches have to come from somewhere? Nowhere have I mention Peterson or Hawkins.

PS: Here is a little secret for you. BSU would beat anyone.

 

[DirtySecret]

Non-BCS coaches have to come from somewhere? Nowhere have I mention Peterson or Hawkins.

PS: Here is a little secret for you. BSU would beat anyone.

Anyone, huh!! They lost to Washington after a year they beat the Sooner in a BCS bowl. By the way, that Washington team ended up with a losing record. You right, the can beat anyone. Except a Ty Willingham Washington team..

 

[IHateMarkMay]

Errr.. Why would Urban leave Utah? Are you kidding me?

Urban leaving Utah and Kelly leaving Cincy are two different things. Utah is not in a BCS conference, the only way they go to a BCS game is if they go undefeated for 3 years. Utah is not the greatest place to recruit.

Cincy is in the Big East. If Kelly can win in a weak conference, he gets a BCS bid. Which equals money for the school. Cincinnati is a hot bed of recruiting, hell all of Ohio is. With Ohio States struggles this year, some kids might want to go to Cincy instead of OSU.

I would say Utah and Cincy are two very different programs. Not saying Kelly wouldn't come if we offered, but the two programs are in very different areas in the football realm.

 

[kmoose]

Unless I'm totally making this up, I remember hearing that Meyer requested that he be able to admit a certain number of recruits per year that wouldn't normally be admitted by ND. I don't know if anyone else remembers hearing/reading it who could verify it.

As I recall, there were published (not that that means what it used to, in the internet age) reports that Urban Meyer asked for a relatively small number of "exemptions" each year. I seem to recall it being right around 4. These kids would have to meet much less stringent criteria, to get in. He also wanted to be allowed to admit a few JC transfers each year. The University told him no. That's what I read, anyway.

 

[aaronb]

Ultimately this team has improved for 3 years in a row.

Every game has been close. We haven't been blown out. We've played with everyone on the schedule.

I know its easy to say nuke the program. Fire the coach and bring anyone else but Weis here.

But building a program from scratch takes time. Keeping Weis ensures a BCS game next year. I firmly believe that.

 

[UPMich_NDfan]

I agree, you can Weis now and next season becomes a bust. I'm not 100% in CW's corner here, I think there are some big changes that he needs to make. But canning him now or after this season is really going to set us back. Whatever recruits he has lined up will bail, Jimmy and Golden will bail, and then we are back to 2 or 3 years of a new coaching trying to 'implement' a system. I say keep him, keep the recruits, keep Jimmy and Golden, and let talent win out next year-even with some shady coaching-we will win next year. The coaching would have to be pretty awful next year to blow games. AFTER next year, would be the appropriate time to make a change is one is still needed.

 

[enrico514]

When I analyse the situation clearly there are simply more facts that favor Charlie staying than leaving. All of which have been mentioned many of times. But in the end, the most importantfact is that ND has a contract with Charlie and will honor it. We can say all that we want about the man but he knows football, works extremely hard and loves ND and the kids that play for him. Given these circumstances ND will stick with him.

 

[nd1988]

Ultimately this team has improved for 3 years in a row.

Every game has been close. We haven't been blown out. We've played with everyone on the schedule.

I know its easy to say nuke the program. Fire the coach and bring anyone else but Weis here.

But building a program from scratch takes time. Keeping Weis ensures a BCS game next year. I firmly believe that.

yea.this is total BS.....Our talent level is so much better to the teams on our schedule that we should NOT have to wait til the final minutes to win the dang games...unreal,....if ND would of pulled it off yesterday...I still would of been upset.....disapointing season...CW can't coach nuff said..

 

[enrico514]

yea.this is total BS.....Our talent level is so much better to the teams on our schedule that we should NOT have to wait til the final minutes to win the dang games...unreal,....if ND would of pulled it off yesterday...I still would of been upset.....disapointing season...CW can't coach nuff said..

I hate to break it to you but our talent level is not better than all the teams on our schedule...

 

[SteelerNation]

New Poster on the Weis situation

New Poster on the Weis situation

Just signed up after sitting on the sidelines for awhile. I usually come here and read other people's posts but I felt compelled to register after this last loss to Navy. I have been an Irish fan for quite awhile....a few decades...yeah, I'm old, and I have to say, we're in pretty bad shape right now. Yes, we have great recruits but the guidance just isnt there. You can give Weis next year..3 years..10 years and it still wont be there. At some point you have to say enough is enough. And 5 years is enough. I understand where people are apprehensive about firing Weis because you dont know who you will get to replace him but at this point, it is a gamble we have to take. Whats the worse that can happen? We have a 3 win season? We've already weathered that. If not for Jimmy's great 4th quarter comebacks...we might be looking at another 3 win season right now. As far as the buyout goes...this is money the alumni have in their pockets as walking around money. The cost isnt a problem. Personally, I think Weis is gone. With all the heat the AD took bringing Weis back this season only to lose to Michigan and USC again, it would take something miraculous to save Charlie at this point. As far as Clausen goes, I think he'll go pro. After seeing what happened to Bradford, he wont take the risk. Anyway, just wanted to say hello, and Let's Go, Irish!

 

[phork]

Anyone, huh!! They lost to Washington after a year they beat the Sooner in a BCS bowl. By the way, that Washington team ended up with a losing record. You right, the can beat anyone. Except a Ty Willingham Washington team..

I'm talking this year sir.

 

[DirtySecret]

I'm talking this year sir.

This year, last year, or a year before fact is they lost to Washington after beating a so called elite team in a bowl game a year before. You can ride BSU gravy train all you want but they're nothing more than a top 15 team who plays in a weak conference and schedule one, just one, decent out conference team a year. Other than that their schedule is laughable. They wouldn't be able to hang in the SEC or Big 12.

 

[nd1988]

I hate to break it to you but our talent level is not better than all the teams on our schedule...

ok...besides SC...

 

[enrico514]

ok...besides SC...

It may be a bit of a stretch but one can argue for Michigan. They have their share of problems but it isn't talent...

This doesn't take into account transfers and ratings are not perfect but according to Rivals, the past 5 recruiting classes (beginning in 2005):

UM - #6, #13, #12, #10, #8 AVG: 9.8 (10.8 without 2005)
ND - #40, #8, #8, #2, #21 AVG: 15.5 (9.8 without 2005)

I agree that more weight should be put to 3rd and 4th year players but it is definately closer than most think!!!

btw... ND was 32nd (avg of 2.8 stars) in 2004 and averaged 3.0 stars in 2005!!! The weakness of the 2004 and 2005 classes had a significant impact on the 2007 and 2008 seasons.

 

[aaronb]

It may be a bit of a stretch but one can argue for Michigan. They have their share of problems but it isn't talent...

This doesn't take into account transfers and ratings are not perfect but according to Rivals, the past 5 recruiting classes (beginning in 2005):

UM - #6, #13, #12, #10, #8 AVG: 9.8 (10.8 without 2005)
ND - #40, #8, #8, #2, #21 AVG: 15.5 (9.8 without 2005)

I agree that more weight should be put to 3rd and 4th year players but it is definately closer than most think!!!

btw... ND was 32nd (avg of 2.8 stars) in 2004 (avg 3.0 stars)!!! The weakness of the 2004 and 2005 classes had a significant impact on the 2007 and 2008 seasons.

True and agreed.

We had ONE player drafted into the NFL last season. According to ESPN's draft insider only Jimmy and Sam Young are elite level draft prospects right now.

The talent on this team are in the Jr. and lower classes.

 

[IrishRamMan10]

KEEP-Recruitng
FIRE- Absolutely everything else

 

[ND_HAS_RISEN]

This is so hard to digest. I am a Wies supporter, and I think he has brought an offense to South Bend that we have never seen before, but my god, yesterday almost killed me. How do you lose to Navy at home two times in a row and not get fired? What is going to happen to this program? This is the ultimate loss IMO. Its a program killer. It is going to take a hit on the recruiting, not just cause the loss, but even by some miraculous chance that Weis stays, who's to say he sticks around after next year? Weis really is a fantastic offensive coordinator. I don't fault him for the way things happened in yesterdays game, because that blame needs to go to the players, but, is it not his responsibility to get the players prepared and to limit those mistakes from happening in the first place?

His recruiting is second to none, and his offensive development is excellent, but this defense is fucking worthless. Tenuta is an absolute joke, and very well could end up being Weis's demise. This defense has some fricken play makers, but serioulsy, how to you have these types of talents, and get absolutley shredded the way they do? Brian Smith, Manti' Teo, Iam Williams, Darius Flemming, each of them will be in NFL camps at some point. They may not make the NFL rosters, but they will be in camps somewhere. Answer this, how many Navy players will be in NFL camps?

Like him or hate him losing that game yesterday sets this program back yet again. A new coach may be able to do better than CW, but it will guarentee be another 5 years before we even see a possible glimpse of it. In my opinion, we give Weis one more year, FIRE TENUTA, bring in someone who can actually run a defense, and let the chips fall how they may. I don't think its gonna matter as I think Weis is gone regardless, but that is what I think we should do. It really kills me to say that, or even think like that because i truely love the offensive expertise that he brings, and because he is one hell of a guy, and a ND alum, but we need to WIN. We need to do whatever we need to do to get this program back.

There isnt a coach out there right now who should even be considerred this year IMO either. Jon Gruden is NOT the answer. Gruden would be a fantastic motivator, but I fear what he would bring to this program if he came.

Im just forever lost, Im a rambling fool because the program I bleed for is once again on the front stage for humilty yet again.


WHATEVER IS DONE, PLEASE GOD, GIVE THEM THE POWER TO BRING ND BACK TO GLORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sam Crow]

WHATEVER IS DONE, PLEASE GOD, GIVE THEM THE POWER TO BRING ND BACK TO GLORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that is truly all i want. if we hire someone that can get the job done, the so be it. right now i think CW is not getting the job done at all. as mentioned many times in the thread that his recruiting is amazing. i say keep him for next year and then fire and hire someone else that can return ND to glory.

 

[phork]

This year, last year, or a year before fact is they lost to Washington after beating a so called elite team in a bowl game a year before. You can ride BSU gravy train all you want but they're nothing more than a top 15 team who plays in a weak conference and schedule one, just one, decent out conference team a year. Other than that their schedule is laughable. They wouldn't be able to hang in the SEC or Big 12.

Find that funny coming from an ND fan.

 

[cman]

I'm not defending Weis, but is it possible that this is a result of Navy getting better, instead of it being ALL about ND getting that much worse?

GOOD POST

 

[Irish.Ca]

Charlie stays, Tenuta falls on the grenade. Ohio State almost lost to them at home and I'd say their D is a little better than ours IMO. They lost to Toledo or Tulsa last week (too lazy to check) and I'm wondering if their D-Co is available. No better candidate for a head coach our there right now and Charlie's filling our couphers on the defensive side finally and this loss should only draw more attention to that fact and make recruits salivate at the idea of starting as frosh.

 

[Riddickulous]

Positives/Negatives of Keeping Weis:

Positives

- Jimmy Clausen stays. This is KEY to the success of the program next season. Jimmy Clausen is the heart and soul of this team. Without him, Notre Dame is 2-7. Dayne Crist has a rocket launcher attached to his arm, but he is not Jimmy Clausen. About one out of every ten passes by Clausen is off target. About one out of every eight passes isn't perfectly placed.
- Golden Tate stays. The most dynamic playmaker and the biggest gamechanger since Raghib Ismail. The Tate-Floyd duo is the greatest in school history, perhaps the greatest in college football history. Take Golden out of the equation and you don't have the same offense. There simply isn't another receiver on his level to replace him, his production, or his gamebreaking ability.
- Recruiting. I don't know about any of you, but I'd prefer to avoid the talent gap in the upper classes that we saw in 2007 and 2008. You want a chance at landing Henderson or Prater? Gotta keep Charlie.
- A potent offense.

Negatives

- Another terrible defense is possible.
- Not a good motivator.
- Sometimes ridiculously bad playcalling.

 

[NDisme]

CTF, big fan of what you are saying here, i think getting rid of charlie means lost recruits, the talent gap thing is miserable i do not want that again no clausen & tate, transfers, manti goes on the mission and transfers out west, i.e. ucla, this is so difficult that this is happening but the pros of keeping charlie do not outway the cons at this point in my opinion. see whn weis came in, in 05 he inherited brady and the bunch, but next coach that comes in, doesn't get that, they don't get jimmy or golden so i think we skip the 05, 06, and go straight to 07. if you get what im saying

Positives/Negatives of Keeping Weis:

Positives

- Jimmy Clausen stays. This is KEY to the success of the program next season. Jimmy Clausen is the heart and soul of this team. Without him, Notre Dame is 2-7. Dayne Crist has a rocket launcher attached to his arm, but he is not Jimmy Clausen. About one out of every ten passes by Clausen is off target. About one out of every eight passes isn't perfectly placed.
- Golden Tate stays. The most dynamic playmaker and the biggest gamechanger since Raghib Ismail. The Tate-Floyd duo is the greatest in school history, perhaps the greatest in college football history. Take Golden out of the equation and you don't have the same offense. There simply isn't another receiver on his level to replace him, his production, or his gamebreaking ability.
- Recruiting. I don't know about any of you, but I'd prefer to avoid the talent gap in the upper classes that we saw in 2007 and 2008. You want a chance at landing Henderson or Prater? Gotta keep Charlie.
- A potent offense.

Negatives

- Another terrible defense is possible.
- Not a good motivator.
- Sometimes ridiculously bad playcalling.

 

[ojo_223]

He has brought in some good recruits. Take a look at the right of the front page and tell me how many defensive tackles or O lineman are on there. I know that it is way too early in the recruiting season, but there is not much in the way of the two positions where we need the most help. Remember, "we will be a nasty football team"? That starts in the trenches and there is not a lot of depth there. Hopefully he can close the deal with Henderson and Nix and we can start to become a nasty team. I think Verducci was a good hire. Can we give Zorich the D-line coach position?

 

[Riddickulous]

I love Charlie Weis! Being a Navy alumnus, you make us look great every year and we know we can go into your stadium and leave a winner! Keep him forever!

BEAT ARMY!

Troll.

Where's BGIF? Someone needs a wallop from the ban hammer.

 

[fitz_bu47]

Charlie didn't miss two field goals, Charlie didn't fumble at the one. Navy should have beaten Ohio St. at their place, they run the option perfectly and their best player (QB) had been out, came back against us....I am not saying Charlie is perfect but if you think all is lost after this game and he needs to be fired, then you are not being fair and truly watching the progress that has been made. What happens the rest of the season matters a lot, and I believe we will rally, I am very confident we can win next week at Pitt, and at Stanford. Short of this team completely quitting on Charlie and losing several more games, there is no way firing him is the smart way to go, the loss of recruits and most likely current players would be devastating to the program.......I see the Irish winning 9 or 10 games and putting together a top 5 recruiting class, if they are able to do that, anyone wanting the head of that type of program fired is a delusional idiot....Talking about it right now w/ a lot of season left is just dumb, Charlie is leading us in the right direction, and there have been some bumps, but everyone has those. We keep improving year to year like we have the last couple, we will contend for national titles as early as next season and w/in the next couple for sure. I love ND, and I support Charlie and this program, and these kids. GO IRISH!!!!!!!

 

[phork]

Stop with this option crap please. If Pitt shut it down, don't you think any other elite defense would?