9-3 season, another top 10 class, a decent bowl, and a NC contending team in '10

[Brown]

And, likely, NC contending teams for the forseable future...Where do I sign up?

 

[phork]

Ann Arbor.

 

[sportallyr]

I agree with everything here, although it would take a lot of late signings to get this class into the top 10. I think we are more realistically looking at another 15-20 class this year, which would be fine if we filled some needs (like getting better, bigger and faster on both lines).

 

[jason_h537]

10-2 with a top 15 class and a bowl win.

 

[BeatSC]

I agree with everything here, although it would take a lot of late signings to get this class into the top 10. I think we are more realistically looking at another 15-20 class this year, which would be fine if we filled some needs (like getting better, bigger and faster on both lines).

I think th rating are al fine and good but it is more important to pull in the right position players and it is obvious this needs to start in the trenches. A hew recruits here and there over the last 3 years and this is an elite team.

 

[Riddickulous]

10-2 with a top 15 class and a bowl win.

+1

 

[jfjkd01]

We need a top 2 class, we have to beat USC & UM in recruiting or forget about a NC. Barkley is only going to get better, they dominate at home. Foricer is only going to get better. We have to build a good D' or forget about a NC.

People on here have to look at reality, yes we are better than 2 years ago, still ND has a lot of work to do to be NC contenders. I think Jimmy might be gone after this year, especially what has happened to Sam Bradford this year, why come back just to get injured. In my opinion CW will never win a NC at ND. He just make too many DUMB ASS calls!!!

 

[jason_h537]

Its funny how other teams will get better next year except ours.

 

[irishfan]

We need a top 2 class, we have to beat USC & UM in recruiting or forget about a NC. Barkley is only going to get better, they dominate at home. Foricer is only going to get better. We have to build a good D' or forget about a NC.

People on here have to look at reality, yes we are better than 2 years ago, still ND has a lot of work to do to be NC contenders. I think Jimmy might be gone after this year, especially what has happened to Sam Bradford this year, why come back just to get injured. In my opinion CW will never win a NC at ND. He just make too many DUMB ASS calls!!!

Barkley's not going to be improving on 380 yard games. He made about two throws the whole game that I was really impressed with and besides that it was all just awful coverage on our part. I love the Weis making dumb calls excuse. Name 5 better O-Coordinators in the country (oh and by the way any offensive coordinator whose team runs the spread or runs a gimmick offense will never contend for the NC-Florida only can because they just have an unfair amount of talent and speed). What do you want him to do on 4th and 1? He can't kick a FG (special teams coach told him we were out of range), and with the awful pass protection we had in the 1st half I doubt he had confidence in calling a playaction. Aldridge came through already in one short yardage situation earlier in the game. Did you think the fake field goal was a "dumb ass" call too? Like I said name 5 O-Coordinators who call a better game than Weis does.

 

[phork]

Name 5 better O-Coordinators in the country (oh and by the way any offensive coordinator whose team runs the spread or runs a gimmick offense will never contend for the NC-Florida only can because they just have an unfair amount of talent and speed).

I can't name ONE better Offensive Co-ordinator than Charlie Weis.

 

[JefMaj]

Phork - you are truly a hater - you try and cloak it, some what, but you are a lurking skunkbear. And, I'd bet - pretending to be a Sub-Way Alumn - however - a Wal-Mart Wolverine.

 

[phork]

Phork - you are truly a hater - you try and cloak it, some what, but you are a lurking skunkbear. And, I'd bet - pretending to be a Sub-Way Alumn - however - a Wal-Mart Wolverine.

Hardly. He asked if I could name 5 better OCs than Charlie. I don't hate Weis, I just don't think he makes an all around Head Coach.

 

[NDMontana]

I can't name ONE better Offensive Co-ordinator than Charlie Weis.

How about a better head coach....which last I checked is what CW's job title is and what he gets paid to do.

 

[irishfan]

How about a better head coach....which last I checked is what CW's job title is and what he gets paid to do.

He runs the offense and oversees the coaches. He has gone out and made great hires when some of his position coaches have failed. He is an amazing recruiter. His offensive play calling has been amazing. He hired the best D-coordinator on the market and he hasnt delivered as of yet for him. What do you want him to do? Call the defensive plays as well? Ask the players if they want CW to stay as head coach and I can guarantee all of them will say yes. Ask the recruits and all of them want him to stay. Ask Holtz, who will defend ND to his grave and knows whats best for the school who he wants as head coach and he will say CW. I'm just curious what more people want out of him? He calls a great offense, he recruits well, he hires good coaches. And who would you hire instead? I really don't want Kelly from Cincy and his gimmick spread offense, and thats the name I hear most often. His only sense of a running game is a qb draw. That offense may work against the Big East but I can guarantee USC would hold them to under 20.

 

[IrishChris209]

Ann Arbor.

LMFAO

 

[JefMaj]

Pork: hang with Ann Arbor. let's see - under your reasoning - Yes, we were a play away - not 3 plays away from 1 - 5. But enjoy those games against 180 thru 188 ranked Eastern Mich. (and I went there before graduating from ND) and Deleware St. Must be fun tuing into that 90 ranked SOS. Wal-Mart Wolverine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[phork]

Pork: hang with Ann Arbor. let's see - under your reasoning - Yes, we were a play away - not 3 plays away from 1 - 5. But enjoy those games against 180 thru 188 ranked Eastern Mich. (and I went there before graduating from ND) and Deleware St. Must be fun tuing into that 90 ranked SOS. Wal-Mart Wolverine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I will bet my house that UM under DickRod will be closer to a NC than ND anytime soon. I am not a UM fan, far from it. You know how much shit I had to eat this year so far, and counting? It is my opinion, and last I heard I am free to state such in places like this, that DickRod is a better head coach.

How about a better head coach....which last I checked is what CW's job title is and what he gets paid to do.

I can easily name 5. But the question wasn't name 5 HCs that are better, it was 5 Offensive Co-Ordinators that are better.

He runs the offense and oversees the coaches. He has gone out and made great hires when some of his position coaches have failed. He is an amazing recruiter. His offensive play calling has been amazing. He hired the best D-coordinator on the market and he hasnt delivered as of yet for him. What do you want him to do? Call the defensive plays as well? Ask the players if they want CW to stay as head coach and I can guarantee all of them will say yes. Ask the recruits and all of them want him to stay. Ask Holtz, who will defend ND to his grave and knows whats best for the school who he wants as head coach and he will say CW. I'm just curious what more people want out of him? He calls a great offense, he recruits well, he hires good coaches. And who would you hire instead? I really don't want Kelly from Cincy and his gimmick spread offense, and thats the name I hear most often. His only sense of a running game is a qb draw. That offense may work against the Big East but I can guarantee USC would hold them to under 20.

Thats the point, he is doing everything he can, and still can't get there. This isn't about offense and defense, but defense would mean we were probably 6-0 at this point. I'm talking all around game management skills.
As far as Kelly is concerned, Cincy has more rushing yards than ND.

You know I have said some pretty wacky things on this board, all in the name of entertainment and debate, but seriously its time some people take stock in where ND is 5+ years later. People are talking BCS now? Really?

 

[kmoose]

I think Jimmy might be gone after this year, especially what has happened to Sam Bradford this year

The Clausens have money. I don't know how much, but I do know that they are not what you would call a blue collar family. Given the thousands of dollars that they have put into QB coaches and clinics, for Jimmy, you can bet that there is a very good insurance policy in place, in case Jimmy gets injured and can't go pro.

 

[Riddickulous]

The Clausens have money. I don't know how much, but I do know that they are not what you would call a blue collar family. Given the thousands of dollars that they have put into QB coaches and clinics, for Jimmy, you can bet that there is a very good insurance policy in place, in case Jimmy gets injured and can't go pro.

They could also afford to move all the way across the country to live in South Bend. I think they've got some cash on them.

 

[JefMaj]

DickRod hasn't proved it yet - - ND win or not - he has AN upset - One quality - even IU was by the mere skin of his teeth and the same refs. 5-2 with OSU, Penn St, Wisc. & now a who-knows-what Purdue team ahead. Possibly a 6 - 6, more likely a 7 -5 and a Sagarin SOS of 90!!!!!! His upset of ND saved him from a Motor City Bowl.
Lloyd Carr did not leave the cupboard as bare for DickRod as CW had to deal with in 2007. Tye had no line (on either side of the ball) for CW in '07 or '08 (Davies' linemen were still around in '05 and into '06) - not so in reserve at UM - they got meat on the hoof (Charlie had a late start on recruiting in '05 and had 7 O-linemen to work with in '07) Tye wasn't fired for wins/losses but because the writing was on the wall in recruiting results.

I can't believe anyone here believes you're not a Wal-Mart Wolverine vs. a Subway Alumn.

 

[PADOMERNUT]

I am going to get burned for saying this, but hell I dont care. Folks, this is year 3 of the Weis reclamation project, not year 5. The first 2 years, he mistakenly failed to develop his younger players. Yes, it was a mistake on his part, and he has admitted so. All he did in 2005-06 was take what Willingham left him and coached them to the best of his abilities. It forced him to play nearly all freshman and sophomores in 2007, and his upperclassmen had little to no experience. It wasnt until that season that he started to build a program. So in my mind, this is year 3 of him building a program, and after 3 years, I will take winning 9 or 10 games and competing for BCS games.

Go ahead and burn me for it, but no one will ever convince me that this whole process actually started in 2007, instead of 2005.

Was that a mistake? Of course it was. Just telling it like it is.

 

[JefMaj]

I won't burn on ya' - I also think CW had a pro coach mentality - story was: that he held a lot of meetings, instead of reps. Pros have been through (mostly) 4 years of fundamentals coaching - and can get by on meetings and films with working on staying in shape. They don't do the reps that they need in college - that's where fundamentals are developed.
So - I agree he was learning college coaching - on the run. We lost 2 years. Burt watching this team develop, recruiting develop, and a plan that seems to be developing - I'm in for another year - 4th, 5th, or 6th.

 

[domerfreak]

I wanted cw to excel at nd just as much as the next person, really who wants to go through another coaching change? However, cw is now 1-16 against ranked teams. Let me repeat that 1-16 against ranked teams! Five years into his internship he should have at the very least gotten lucky in a couple of those games. Purdue, had a huge win yesterday from a first year coach.

Save the talent level excusses.05 had less talent than our current squad and played more consistent that our current players. That comes down to coaching no matter how you slice it. Not once but twice this season we have been diced up by a freshman qb. Sorry charlie, I know you love nd as your dream job. You were hired based upon a knee jerk decision and its not working. If memory serves me corecttly charlie said if you are not at the least competing for a championship by year 5 this wasnt the job for you. Stand by your statement and step down at the end of the year, thats the best thing you can do for nd football at this point.

 

[Riddickulous]

You have got to be kidding me.

Look at the last fifteen years. What happens when we switch coaches?

1. We lose our recruiting class.
2. Already burdened with average talent (at least during the Davie and Willingham years), there is no marked improvement between seasons, as the untalented seniors are replaced by inexperienced freshmen and sophomores.
3. The coach is fired. The cycle begins anew.

Charlie needs more time, or else it will be another fifteen years before Notre Dame is going to sniff national relevance, again.

 

[PADOMERNUT]

I wanted cw to excel at nd just as much as the next person, really who wants to go through another coaching change? However, cw is now 1-16 against ranked teams. Let me repeat that 1-16 against ranked teams! Five years into his internship he should have at the very least gotten lucky in a couple of those games. Purdue, had a huge win yesterday from a first year coach.

Save the talent level excusses.05 had less talent than our current squad and played more consistent that our current players. That comes down to coaching no matter how you slice it. Not once but twice this season we have been diced up by a freshman qb. Sorry charlie, I know you love nd as your dream job. You were hired based upon a knee jerk decision and its not working. If memory serves me corecttly charlie said if you are not at the least competing for a championship by year 5 this wasnt the job for you. Stand by your statement and step down at the end of the year, thats the best thing you can do for nd football at this point.

And watch recruits jump ship and have players transfer? How in the world would that be the best thing for ND football?

 

[JefMaj]

CW goes - so does JC, & Tate - any 5th year O-line guys as well.

 

[WabashFalcon]

I wanted cw to excel at nd just as much as the next person, really who wants to go through another coaching change? However, cw is now 1-16 against ranked teams. Let me repeat that 1-16 against ranked teams! Five years into his internship he should have at the very least gotten lucky in a couple of those games. Purdue, had a huge win yesterday from a first year coach.

Save the talent level excusses.05 had less talent than our current squad and played more consistent that our current players. That comes down to coaching no matter how you slice it. Not once but twice this season we have been diced up by a freshman qb. Sorry charlie, I know you love nd as your dream job. You were hired based upon a knee jerk decision and its not working. If memory serves me corecttly charlie said if you are not at the least competing for a championship by year 5 this wasnt the job for you. Stand by your statement and step down at the end of the year, thats the best thing you can do for nd football at this point.

We are two plays away from being in the NC talk. Hell, with luck and winning out, we could be there at 10-2. Who would you want to replace Charlie with?
Meyer? Not leaving Florida.
Don't give me any bullshit about badass Big Boy Cinci from the Big East.
Gruden? No. He is an NFL or bust guy. He will not develop talent.
Cower? Again, an NFL guy.
Flumer? No. I don't think he wants another HC job.

Give me a name you want. Don't just ask for Charlie to bolt and offer a replacement. If you think will we be able to win with a new coach in his first year, you're freaking insane. Case in point: Lane Kiffen.

Check. Mate.

 

[phork]

DickRod hasn't proved it yet - - ND win or not - he has AN upset - One quality - even IU was by the mere skin of his teeth and the same refs. 5-2 with OSU, Penn St, Wisc. & now a who-knows-what Purdue team ahead. Possibly a 6 - 6, more likely a 7 -5 and a Sagarin SOS of 90!!!!!! His upset of ND saved him from a Motor City Bowl.
Lloyd Carr did not leave the cupboard as bare for DickRod as CW had to deal with in 2007. Tye had no line (on either side of the ball) for CW in '07 or '08 (Davies' linemen were still around in '05 and into '06) - not so in reserve at UM - they got meat on the hoof (Charlie had a late start on recruiting in '05 and had 7 O-linemen to work with in '07) Tye wasn't fired for wins/losses but because the writing was on the wall in recruiting results.

I can't believe anyone here believes you're not a Wal-Mart Wolverine vs. a Subway Alumn.

DickRod is in year 2 of transforming a "3 yards and a cloud of dust" to a dynamic offense that people have trouble stopping. He is already challenging for a BigTen title. Yes thats not saying much, but I digress. They will be much further ahead next year than ND was in year 3.

You have got to be kidding me.

Look at the last fifteen years. What happens when we switch coaches?

1. We lose our recruiting class.
2. Already burdened with average talent (at least during the Davie and Willingham years), there is no marked improvement between seasons, as the untalented seniors are replaced by inexperienced freshmen and sophomores.
3. The coach is fired. The cycle begins anew.

Charlie needs more time, or else it will be another fifteen years before Notre Dame is going to sniff national relevance, again.

How much more time? 15 years has come and gone in the blink of an eye, and now people are happy with coming to within 7 points of USC and saying "Maybe next year!" That is not good enough for me.

And watch recruits jump ship and have players transfer? How in the world would that be the best thing for ND football?

Depending on the coach I see your point, but it goes both ways as well.

We are two plays away from being in the NC talk. Hell, with luck and winning out, we could be there at 10-2. Who would you want to replace Charlie with?
Meyer? Not leaving Florida.
Don't give me any bullshit about badass Big Boy Cinci from the Big East.
Gruden? No. He is an NFL or bust guy. He will not develop talent.
Cower? Again, an NFL guy.
Flumer? No. I don't think he wants another HC job.

Give me a name you want. Don't just ask for Charlie to bolt and offer a replacement. If you think will we be able to win with a new coach in his first year, you're freaking insane. Case in point: Lane Kiffen.

Check. Mate.

What the hell are you smoking? National Championship game at 10-2? Seriously? 30 spots away in the BCS rankings? And that crap about 2 plays from 6-0, ND is 3 plays from 1-5. If you are going to use that argument I'll go the other way, because its a lot closer to the truth than 6-0.

 

[Guest]

This is the same thing I heard Texas fans complaining about in Mack Brown. He'd lose a game or two, and they wanted him fired.

Fast forward a few years in and he finally won a national championship.

He is recruiting at Texas in the hottest bed of talent in the nation. Brown always had talent. He had to fire some coaches and bring some better ones in. He had to learn how to do more than just recruit.

I see a lot of similarities in ND situation. I think it would be tragic to fire Weis now. I think you give him 2 more years and see what happens. Even if he doesn't win a NC, if he is 10-1 and has the team in a BCS bowl, then what's the chances you go out and hire THE guy to get you over that last hump? Sometimes you just have to let the coaches mature their program and do it in their time.

 

[PhilsRule]

This is the same thing I heard Texas fans complaining about in Mack Brown. He'd lose a game or two, and they wanted him fired.

Fast forward a few years in and he finally won a national championship.

He is recruiting at Texas in the hottest bed of talent in the nation. Brown always had talent. He had to fire some coaches and bring some better ones in. He had to learn how to do more than just recruit.

I see a lot of similarities in ND situation. I think it would be tragic to fire Weis now. I think you give him 2 more years and see what happens. Even if he doesn't win a NC, if he is 10-1 and has the team in a BCS bowl, then what's the chances you go out and hire THE guy to get you over that last hump? Sometimes you just have to let the coaches mature their program and do it in their time.

Link to Texas's 3-9 season.