The Ref's in the Michigan Game

[phork]

Hindsight is 20/20. But ultimately what happened is that ND was down 14-3 instead of up 14-7. So yes, I still stand my ground as to that play being a key play. It led to a missed FG, which led to... Well you know the rest. 14-3.

 

[Junkhead]

The calls would be questionable at best, but the fact that the big ten refs were responsible makes it seem strange.

 

[irishfan]

Hindsight is 20/20. But ultimately what happened is that ND was down 14-3 instead of up 14-7. So yes, I still stand my ground as to that play being a key play. It led to a missed FG, which led to... Well you know the rest. 14-3.

it was a key play but only cause it was a red zone 3rd down. if he throws an incomplete pass were not having this discussion. it wasnt a bad call, weis was going for the 1st down.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Cut the bullshit and the PC. The refs determined the outcome of the game.

 

[JefMaj]

Okay - so he was out of bounds - but I hate them anyway.

WNDU cameras show ND's Allen was out of bounds on overturned touchdown

 

[NDinL.A.]

Okay - so he was out of bounds - but I hate them anyway.

WNDU cameras show ND's Allen was out of bounds on overturned touchdown

The point is that it was totally inconclusive atthe time, and I'm still not convinced without a shadow of a doubt that his heel was out of bounds.

Anyways, a friend of mine has been checking out the PSU sites, and he said they have been KILLING the refs over the ND game, that it was blatant how badly we got hosed. He sent me an example of one message:

The fix was in! Joe was right about home cooking in the Big House. I don't think I ever watched a game where 2 receivers- ND'S Floyd and Tate, were physically assualted on just about every pass route and nothing was called. Touchdown's called back, phantom holding calls against ND. It took Tim Donaghy's gambling addiction to show that the fix was in at the NBA level, what is it going to take for someone to investigate that crew. Look out, I see Joe attacking that group again.

He said that there were several thread about the refs throughout the weekend, all with pretty much the same tone. So it's not just us...

 

[nlroma1o]

Let's just fucking crush MSU. I don't even hate them, but lets just beat the snot outta them. Get the message out that we r pissed and we aren't just gonna forget about what happened in aa. I fucking hate Michigan more than anything. I had shit thrown at me the whole game. Those bastards will get whats comming to them. Don't worry gentlement, they will get theirs. They honestly think they are going to be 6-0 going into Penn State. All i have to say is GO IRISH, BEAT SPARTANS. and Go Eastern, embarass the fuck outta them, Please.

 

[JefMaj]

Don't get me wrong - I despise Big 10 refs and their striped brothers - the Skunk-bears. But as an alumn whose favorite professor was Father Michael Himes - he explained that we never know why God acts in the way he does and most often it is the mistake of man - however - here God might not have forsakened us - now Sam Young clearly kicking ass on that block..........

 

[irishtrain]

refs

refs

Seems strange that they WOULD use big 10 refs doesn't it. I was surprised to hear that, all during the game I thought they were big east guys. Finging out they were big 10 people is a bit shocking-who agreed to that?

 

[Junkhead]

Just like the Pac-10 refs who overturned David Grimes catch.

 

[JefMaj]

Michigan will only agree to play - ANYBODY - with Big 10 refs.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

Just like the Pac-10 refs who overturned David Grimes catch.

Hurts me everytime the Grimes play is brought up. I have that award winning picture of the catch as my screen saver because I am a glutton for punishment.

The Allen TD should not have been overturned at the time. I still don't think it is "conclusive evidence" that he was actually out. The Sam Young pancake makes me angrier and angrier the more I watch it. Why he got called for a penalty is beyond me. The whole game was bullshit from the refs, in my opinion. If all the calls had gone our way, we still might have lost because you never know what would have happened on the next play given a different set of circumstances (chaos theory and all), but to lose this way just sucks plain and simple.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I am a glutton for punishment..

Ooh.

 

[irishtrain]

refs

refs

I know we are working this thing pretty heavy on the officiating, but this info on these big ten schools not playing unless their refs are used cant be correct can it? I mean who in the #@&* would agree to that? Can that be challanged or changed thru contract? Your giving a group a chance to stick it to you when you tell them you dont want to be part of their league. Man finding this out really smells- I dont like the aroma of the 'little 11'.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

Ooh.

Bring it on! It's almost deer season! By the way, how is your mom? Oh yeah, I just said that!!!

 

[phork]

The only solution to this is NCAA paid refs on a national level.

 

[JefMaj]

It's Mich. They refuse to play with anybody but Big 10 refs. When we go to Purdue it will be Big East. I thinnk I read MSU (This Year) is a Big 10 squad.

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

If it's a Big10 home game why would it not be a Big10 crew? It's not like it's a big10 crew in South Bend.

 

[phork]

If it's a Big10 home game why would it not be a Big10 crew? It's not like it's a big10 crew in South Bend.

We have a Big10 Crew for the MSU game in SouthBend dood.

 

[03euroSVT]

UM is the only team that we have an agreement with where if we play there the refs are big 10 and if we play at home it's big east.

 

[VictorsValiant]

There is some rampant speculation here so I feel the need to clarify.

First, Big East officials officiated last year's game. There were several calls (most notably the no catch ruling on a Matthews TD at the start of the game) against us that were questionable. So the accusation that we only play games with Big Ten officials is groundless.

Second, you should be very careful listening to PSU fans. Their wild conspiracy theories are quite comical. JoePa has a bout of insecurity stemming from his ridiculous belief that Big Ten refs only want us and OSU to win at the expense of PSU, the newcomer (they joined the conference in 1993). Do you really think JoePa would be so noisy if he hadn't lost nearly all his games against us? Perhaps if they actually played some good non-conference opponents, they can get some respect.

What JoePa wants to do is the shift focus away from Michigan and OSU, who have traditionally provided the identity of the conference. His open support for expansion furthers his goals. The fact that no one is listening only adds to his paranoia. So you really have to look at their complaints with a huge grain of salt.

Regarding the actual calls, Riddick touched the ball at the end, Allen's foot was down, there is a clear NCAA rule against taunting (I think Weis said "technically, that's taunting") and if you argue interference, you have to call it both ways because the ND receivers were just as obstructing. We also feel Graham was held on several occasions but there was no call.

The out of bounds play was close. The new footage says the officials were correct. I'm not sure what camera angles they had. The call was debatable, but that doesn't mean there was some huge conspiracy.

 

[phork]

Regarding the actual calls, Riddick touched the ball at the end, Allen's foot was down, there is a clear NCAA rule against taunting (I think Weis said "technically, that's taunting") and if you argue interference, you have to call it both ways because the ND receivers were just as obstructing. We also feel Graham was held on several occasions but there was no call.

All good points but I would like to focus on the taunting. Was I the only one who witnessed the wolverine orgy in the end zone after the first TD? It wasn't players running up to congratulate, it was a pile of wolverines in the endzone.

And frankly what some enhanced pic shows today might not have been available at game time. I can't speak to this because I don't know exactly what they have to see. From my perspective on the TV shot his foot looked in.. Meh.

 

[vinnymac2402]

Dear Mr. Cissoko and Warren Nd reciever would like to have their wallets returned and there will be no charges filed in the intentional mugging from Saturday

 

[Madknute]

Why did AA take such a wide angle to begin with? No Michigan player was even close to him. Move a foot to your right man!

 

[phgreek]

I don't like to put this blame on and I give Michigan credit; Tate Forcier is going to be a good quarterback and one that I will not like to see in the next 3 years. That being said I thought the ref's did poor officiating. For example, when Armando Allen scored his 2-pt. conversion he was called for unsportsman like conduct, however when Michigan scored the last touchdown the Michigan wide receiver started to celebrate, but the referee stopped him. The corner back for Michigan, #33 is the cockiest SOB, and he got a way w/ a few calls. I know there are games where players "get away w/ a few calls", but Cissoko got away w/ some plays. Oh well, it's time to move on and worry about Michigan State; since they are going to want to take their loss out on us.

agree...Cissoko popped tate in the chest after a first down grab...while tate was laying there looking for a hand to get up...refs did nothing. The AA unsportsman like conduct call was COMPLETE bullshit, and the Sam Young Holding call on the Rudolph catch and run play that had us to the 5 yardline was crap...the guy they Said Young held was double-teammed, pancaked, and was going down on his own...it was a bitch call.

But the worst were the replay guys...man somebody help me out, but AA's screen pass touchdown that got called back seemed like it lacked the elements for the booth stooges to overturn. The second angle showed to the televised audience seemed pretty close, and honestly looked like he was in....one of the color guys even said so. Plus the ref on the field who made the call was right there...yet it gets overturned (and we only got a field goal...margin of Victory was 4 pts...that is the Cardinal sin of a replay crew...to change the outcome of a game without incontravertible evidence...much less to flat ass get it wrong). Later, Michigan Reciever had one reviewed because he juggled it out of bounds...I would have honestly called that incomplete as it was clear the ball still moved after he went out...called it a catch...its ridiculous.

Now...whining over...I'll quote my old man..."If the refs get a chance to be a factor in the outcome, suddenly they are elevated to supreme court justice with 50 thousand fans on them...chances are, thats bad for ya son...get 'em out early, and keep 'em out"

 

[NDinL.A.]

There is some rampant speculation here so I feel the need to clarify.

there is a clear NCAA rule against taunting (I think Weis said "technically, that's taunting") and if you argue interference, you have to call it both ways because the ND receivers were just as obstructing. We also feel Graham was held on several occasions but there was no call.

The out of bounds play was close. The new footage says the officials were correct. I'm not sure what camera angles they had. The call was debatable, but that doesn't mean there was some huge conspiracy.

Fair points.

Now, as far as taunting, if you're going to call that with the game on the line, then call it in the first quarter on Michigan's mob in the endzone. Call it when your DB shoves Floyd straight to the ground as he was trying to get up, RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE REF, all because he was getting his ass handed to him all damn game. Call it after Michigan's TD on their final drive (go look at the tape - if you call it on Allen, then you call excessive celebration on Mich).

And as far as our DB's obstructing your WR's just as much as you guys, surely you're joking. Please tell me you're joking. Your DB's are lucky the game wasn't played in Utah, because in that state what they did is considered rape. They got away with so much it's not even funny. And then the refs have the nerve to call Sergio Brown (#31) on a ticky-tack holding call, after ALL the crap they saw Michigan do.

You can say scoreboard, we lost, because that's true, we did lose. But anybody who says the refereeing had nothing to do with it flat-out lying...

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Bring it on! It's almost deer season! By the way, how is your mom? Oh yeah, I just said that!!!

Ooh. Sometimes I just... ooh. Bastage.

 

[irishtrain]

Victors- I see where your going and cant or wont argue with one of my boys but all these plays are open to be called much differently. As far as the refs I thought everything you guys said was as I knew it. The revelation to me was these guys being big 10 refs at mich. I do not believe that should be the case. All these calls could be turned and I dont like the feeling that we got jobbed. AA's run will live forever as a wrong judgement-you do not bring that back unless they have a different shot than what we saw. The other stuff as you said can be argued but I dont know too many refs that call those things. The taunting was clearly over the top. He was just waiting to do that- AA gives no image of being a hot dog. Now that I know those guys were from the big 10 I'm even pissed more. And this should be said Charlie is no whiner- neither are some of the guys on blueandgold, nor Alan Pinkett but to raise these questions by these proud men tells me they think we got jobbed. I'm starting to think that this does not need to end and it should be used to bury some opponents down the line from that conference if we have a chance.

 

[Riddickulous]

That last non-call, on one of those legendary second and third down plays with two minutes left, was complete bullshit. When Golden Tate can't get his other hand up because Donovan Warren is holding it down, that's pass interference. Jesus Christ.

Anybody recall a particular play from the first quarter? Brandon Minor bursts through the hole for a big gain. On the replay, you can see a Michigan guard has Ian Williams in a bear hug from behind. No call. I just about exploded.