Optimism vs Realism for ND Fans

[Polish Leppy 22]

As a lifetime ND fan as many of us are, I found myself thinking today about the national title game coming up and those of the past few years. Oklahoma vs Florida should be a dandy.

With that being said, I know most of us bleed ND football and are the most loyal of ND "fans" out there. I wondered earlier today: Is there a realistic chance that we see ND back as a national contender every year? If you compare the talent and the production of the Weis era to that of USC, Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, LSU, etc...ND is not in the same ballpark. Don't get me wrong. I want them to be. Match up our Irish with these types of teams and our boys are physically outmatched at every position.

Is there a realistic shot that we see these guys back in the national title picture every year? Or are we going down a slippery slope of mediocracy and irrelevance?

 

[ARALOU]

According to some, we have the talent. We should be winning and we are not because of coaching. I think we are not deep enough. We let games get away late and against superior teams we play the equivalence of about a half. A number 1 recruiting class consists of what? Ten, twelve, fourteen or fifteen kids? A roster is eighty-five players I think. If you have gaps in recruiting years you have depth problems. If you lose some of those recruits for various reasons, you have depth problems. If you recruit kids that cant maintain the academic standard you lose them and then you have depth problems. We have to remember that college football is not the NFL. Its a different game. I agree that we should be better than we are.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Maybe SI and ESPN and Fox and others should expose flaws of winning programs, to include who's feet they tickled.. They did it and do it to ND.

Do it to everyone else.

Expose them. Do it.

Last night's ESPN award show was a grotesque display of Irish Envy. Walked away often (cuz pretty girls were knockin, and I needed to piss...)

Corso is in fact Mel Brooks. Really.

 

[coachjohnson]

I do think we can be back amongst the teams you are talking about. Some things need to happen though. The past few years we have had good recruiting classes and we need to continue that and improve . Depth, which has been brought up already needs to be closer as far as level of players. We have a bigger gap from our 1's to our 2's than a lot of the teams referred to earlier. Weis has done a good job recruiting, the best since the Holtz era by far, but their still just classes that are ranked on high school accolades. Not everyone is a college football player or have what it takes to do what is neccessary. Like bust their tails and not except anything but their best all the time. Improving every aspect of their game is a must- every off season, in season and whenever possible. We need log jams at every position- this makes the players work their butts off to stay a 1 and pushes 2's to beat out 1's. Competition breeds success
Another thing that has to happen is a great season, this shows the recruits that want to compete for a title that it's not far away and they can contribute and ultimately win a National Title. By great season we need a 10-11 win season including the bowl against an opponent of high caliber.

 

[irish4ever]

Is there a realistic shot that we see these guys back in the national title picture every year? Or are we going down a slippery slope of mediocracy and irrelevance?

I think that it's realistic for Irish fans to expect the Irish to compete for a BCS bowl game every year, but not necessarily the NC game. With the strong recruiting classes that are coming in and if they're able to continue the recruiting trend, yes, they should be able to compete for one of the coveted top tier bowls games annually.

 

[NDFan537]

I think one of the biggest reasons ND has struggled is the lack of good coaching and recruting for 10 years prior to Charlie arriving. Look in order to fix the mess that Davies put us in and then Willingham re-directed it will take a little time. That is the precise reason I support Charlie and am glad he is staying. He does need to change the offense and that is up to him.(I pray every day he see the same crap we do) The programs that have been talked about UF OU LSU UT ect.... they have all had coaches or systems in place for longer than ND. They didn't just magically apear in the top 10 it took time and patience. I promise you that the reason Urban chose UF instead of his alma mater ND is the talent level was higher there and he wanted to look like a genius. We have that kind of talent level now. Next year could be the start of the kind of era we would all love to see. The talent is there, Charlie is capable, the question is will he drop his ego and allow someone to run the Offense.

 

[mick2]

Maybe SI and ESPN and Fox and others should expose flaws of winning programs, to include who's feet they tickled.. They did it and do it to ND.

Do it to everyone else.

Expose them. Do it.

Last night's ESPN award show was a grotesque display of Irish Envy. Walked away often (cuz pretty girls were knockin, and I needed to piss...)

Corso is in fact Mel Brooks. Really.

dude my thoughts exactly!

 

[NDOM]

As a lifetime ND fan as many of us are, I found myself thinking today about the national title game coming up and those of the past few years. Oklahoma vs Florida should be a dandy.

With that being said, I know most of us bleed ND football and are the most loyal of ND "fans" out there. I wondered earlier today: Is there a realistic chance that we see ND back as a national contender every year? If you compare the talent and the production of the Weis era to that of USC, Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, LSU, etc...ND is not in the same ballpark. Don't get me wrong. I want them to be. Match up our Irish with these types of teams and our boys are physically outmatched at every position.

Is there a realistic shot that we see these guys back in the national title picture every year? Or are we going down a slippery slope of mediocracy and irrelevance?

What you said. As long as Charlie Weis is coaching.

 

[mooneytostle]

I think one of the biggest reasons ND has struggled is the lack of good coaching and recruting for 10 years prior to Charlie arriving. Look in order to fix the mess that Davies put us in and then Willingham re-directed it will take a little time. That is the precise reason I support Charlie and am glad he is staying. He does need to change the offense and that is up to him.(I pray every day he see the same crap we do) The programs that have been talked about UF OU LSU UT ect.... they have all had coaches or systems in place for longer than ND. They didn't just magically apear in the top 10 it took time and patience. I promise you that the reason Urban chose UF instead of his alma mater ND is the talent level was higher there and he wanted to look like a genius. We have that kind of talent level now. Next year could be the start of the kind of era we would all love to see. The talent is there, Charlie is capable, the question is will he drop his ego and allow someone to run the Offense.

1) UF had a brand new system come in under Urban Meyer. They are playing in their 2nd national title game in Meyer's 4 years there.

2) Notre Dame is not Urban Meyer's alma mater. He went to Cincinnati. The reason he went to Florida is because (1) he already had a deal in place with them and his wife really wanted him to go to Florida; (2) he wanted to be able to recruit primarily in one state and not be on the road all of the time recruiting.

3) The talent is there (although I would argue there is still talent/depth issues on the defensive line). The coaching is not. After two years of under-performance, why do you expect Weis to finally "get it" and understand what needs to be done?

 

[mooneytostle]

I think that it's realistic for Irish fans to expect the Irish to compete for a BCS bowl game every year, but not necessarily the NC game. With the strong recruiting classes that are coming in and if they're able to continue the recruiting trend, yes, they should be able to compete for one of the coveted top tier bowls games annually.

We've seen first hand how top recruited talent doesn't mean shit unless it is properly developed. Our schedule every year (save 2012/13 when we have Oklahoma on the schedule) is set up to make it a 2-game season. Beat Michigan. Beat USC. Go to the national title. Michigan's struggles have made our schedule even easier this year and most likely next year as well. We should be able to go 10-2 every single year with the talent that we have...at least. It is USC that stands between us and a national title game, based on what SHOULD be happening on the field. Sadly, our coaches don't know how to develop recruits and we are forced to watch losses to Navy and Syracuse - teams that have no business being within 3 or 4 touchdowns of ND.

 

[NDinL.A.]

1) UF had a brand new system come in under Urban Meyer. They are playing in their 2nd national title game in Meyer's 4 years there.

2) Notre Dame is not Urban Meyer's alma mater. He went to Cincinnati. The reason he went to Florida is because (1) he already had a deal in place with them and his wife really wanted him to go to Florida; (2) he wanted to be able to recruit primarily in one state and not be on the road all of the time recruiting.

3) The talent is there (although I would argue there is still talent/depth issues on the defensive line). The coaching is not. After two years of under-performance, why do you expect Weis to finally "get it" and understand what needs to be done?

There's a lot more to it than what you are saying:

1: Meyer had a veteran QB to help him smooth the transition, plus a cupboard filled to the brim with unreal talent. CW did almost the same with less talent his first year. Of course, he had veteran players, which helped the transition greatly, just as Meyer had. The difference, among other things, is that CW had Ty's recruiting classes, where Meyer had Ron Crook's recruiting classes. HUGE difference.

Also, Meyer recruited Tim Tebow, a transcendent talent that some are calling the greatest college football player of all-time. And even with Tebow and all that talent, they still lost 4 games last year. Team was very young and had some injuries, and they lost a bunch of close games. Now Tebow is a jr, and they're the best team in the nation.

2: You listed the reasons why Meyer went to FL (all true), but neglected to mention the #1 reason: Recruiting, as in he can now recruit ANYBODY he wants. Grades mean shit. Atttitude means shit. Just look at their police record since he took over. It's more amazing than their football record! And you think he wanted to come to SB where he had to recruit upstanding student-athletes when he could have gone to FL and get guys who can outrun cop cars with no problems from the admin? Hell no!!!

Now, Meyer is a great coach, and I agree, CW needs to prove himself. His perfprmance the last 5 games makes me want to throw up. Unlike many, I won't forget his first 2 years, and since we kept him, I'm hoping that he'll revert to the first year of coaching. He's got to get better assistants, and we all better pray they start getting the job done NOW.

I can't take a friggin loss to a bunch of rainbows...

 

[coachjohnson]

It would suck to get beat by Hawaii. Do any of you remember Hawaii's uniforms back in the day when Paul Johnson was the O coordinator there. They were awful, that's what I think of when Hawaii is brought up. Rainbows on the helmets, come on.

 

[NDMontana]

Personally, I don't think that Notre Dame will ever be a perennial National Championship contender again. Perhaps the program is destined for two years of rebuilding followed by two years of contention and the cylce continues.

I think there are some factors that work heavily against Notre Dame:

1. Kids grow up either hating or loving ND--there aren't many people with no feelings towards the school--which makes it hit or miss with prospects.

2. The climate and campus lifestyle. ND's women aren't in the same league as the women at Texas, Florida, USC, etc. The climate is harsh in the winter months which doesn't help the recruiting cause either.

3. Recent track record. Sans 2005, we haven't been relevant over the last 20 years. It's not easy to build a winning college football program.

4. The Media. The media has abandoned reporting and moved into the info-tainment business. Reporters have more freedom to express their feeling or at the least let their own beliefs jaundice their reporting. Nobody seems to remain neutral when it comes to ND and when Notre Dame comes up there are always tendentious views expressed. Couple that with the "we're not going to let the memory of Willingham die" mentality and Notre Dame seems to be the target of continual reproach.

Maybe CW & Company will turn this thing around next year. Gregory Peck hit it on the head when he said "Tough times don't last, tough people do".

 

[NDFan537]

Mooney
My bad you are right I dont know what I was thinking Urban did go to cinncy. I still beleave in the rest of what I said.

 

[NDFan537]

Mooney I would like a respose from you on this one primarly, and I know you will be happy to oblige me.

I have read many of your posts and what I see you say over and over is there has been NO IMPROVEMENT. I would like to say there has been improvement and I will give you these points to discuss and refute.
1. The talent level at ND when Charlie arrived(aside from the first team)was medicore at best. The issue this causes is that when your first team moves on you are left with no one to step in a do the job. This in the NCAA is refered to as a talent gap. In this instance Charlie took the good first team played them and went for the Home Run, we came up short. What he did then is put the young top recruits on the field and let them learn and grow with exprerience.
2. The product we put on the field last year won 3 games and played completly uncompetative in the other 9 games. We were out there turning the ball over every series on Offense and letting the other team score each time they had the ball. At some bright moments we scored a few touchdowns.
3. This year we won 6 games(which is double the total from last year) and played competative in all but 2 games.(I would not include the BC game except our offense was non-existent, however, it should be noted that the Defense kept us in it for 3 quarters.)We had a lot of turnovers in close games and our kicker was less than desirable for most of the year and our running game was not good for most of the year. If you don't run the ball well, and you turn it over, and your kicker can't make easy field goals you are going to lose unless you have a large advantage in talent.(which we did not have)
4. At times this year I beleave the offense played extremly well and at times they played poorly. You have to expect that from a team that starts at least half underclassmen. I know that in your mind and in my mind this is Notre Dame and back to back losing seasons(which god help us we beat Hawaii) is unacceptable. Look around this is not the 60's, it takes time to build. All I ask of you is to support at least our head coach and see what happens. 5 years is not too much to ask, if he can't get the job done I will be the first in line for his head. He will though and I firmly beleave it.

I want you to try to be a little less angry with me and other fans of my same opinion. Just reach down deep in your soul. You bleed Blue and Gold too. You can hear the sound of the band when you lay your head down. Don't let your anger make you miss all the great things in our future. WE ARE ND! WE ARE ND! WE ARE ND! They are not and we will make them PAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[davislove]

I think there are some factors that work heavily against Notre Dame:

1. Kids grow up either hating or loving ND--there aren't many people with no feelings towards the school--which makes it hit or miss with prospects.

ND has gotten it's fair share of talent the last few years. I think there is more then enough talent out there to field a good team.

2. The climate and campus lifestyle. ND's women aren't in the same league as the women at Texas, Florida, USC, etc. The climate is harsh in the winter months which doesn't help the recruiting cause either.

I think if a kid is good enough to have ND recruiting him, I think his football career is more important to him then girls. He won't be limited to just seeing the girls on campus. As far as climate, He may as well get used to it, The NFL don't care if you like warm weather.

3. Recent track record. Sans 2005, we haven't been relevant over the last 20 years. It's not easy to build a winning college football program.

A good year and ND is the talk of the sport again. What mediocre team has gotten as much pub as ND the last 2 years?

4. The Media. The media has abandoned reporting and moved into the info-tainment business. Reporters have more freedom to express their feeling or at the least let their own beliefs jaundice their reporting. Nobody seems to remain neutral when it comes to ND and when Notre Dame comes up there are always tendentious views expressed. Couple that with the "we're not going to let the memory of Willingham die" mentality and Notre Dame seems to be the target of continual reproach.

Can't argue there, those guys want to be bigger then the people they cover. I think a decent coach can have this squad being a contender. I don't buy the depth arguement because we are loaded on offense. Next year --on paper our RB position could be deeper and more talented then USC. The defensive line looks thin but it's been the the offense that has lost the games.

CW can recruit. And that alone may be enough to produce some modest seasons of 7-9 wins. Thats enough to hang on to his job and keep ND off the radar. The the longer he stays, the longer ND remains out of the title picture IMO.

 

[phgreek]

As a lifetime ND fan as many of us are, I found myself thinking today about the national title game coming up and those of the past few years. Oklahoma vs Florida should be a dandy.

With that being said, I know most of us bleed ND football and are the most loyal of ND "fans" out there. I wondered earlier today: Is there a realistic chance that we see ND back as a national contender every year? If you compare the talent and the production of the Weis era to that of USC, Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, LSU, etc...ND is not in the same ballpark. Don't get me wrong. I want them to be. Match up our Irish with these types of teams and our boys are physically outmatched at every position.

Is there a realistic shot that we see these guys back in the national title picture every year? Or are we going down a slippery slope of mediocracy and irrelevance?

National Title....naaa, probably not. But I really think that actually has more to do with the leveling of scholarships. The implication is ...that applies to everyone...and it does.

BCS...yea, I think we should be in the running for a BCS bowl every year.