What went wrong. In my view.

MeanGreen

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We may have witnessed the end of the CW era last night. Thinking back these past 4 years, I tried in my mind to see what happened. CW loved ND, is an ND man, and no one should doubt his work ethic. He did restore the respect for the mystic and tradition of ND that his two predecessors tried to ignore or act as if it did not exist. However something’s just did not materialize for him. This is what I think happened.

1. The hole was bigger than we thought. Ty’s last full class and CW’s first were not good, quantity or quality wise. I have nothing against Ty so this is not another shot at him. I wanted him to win here and I wanted him to do well at UW. His assistants, I could not stand! They let him down big time. This put CW in a hole for not only players, but position competition and leaders. Did any of our starters the past two years have real competition for their spots? Some players like Mike Floyd can step in and start for anybody, but how many Floyds do we really have. Maybe these guys would have still started, but a little position competition would have made them better.

2. CW pro background hurt him a lot. College is more about teaching and coaching than true scheme. Many scheme’s run in college would never work consistently in the pros. Player development is key to the college game. This is apparent along the O and D lines. We either did not recruit or develop players there. In the Pro’s you can find a late round or FA lineman that will become an all-pro. That player was probably a 4 or 5 star recruit out of HS. That player was developed in college and for whatever reason slipped through the scouting maze. We have not developed a big time O-lineman since, I am not sure when.

3. His staff has let him down. True he did pick them, but they have not done their share. Maybe, he does not let them, maybe he intimidates them, but for what ever reason they have not helped. The O Line has been an issue from just about day one and the defense, except for this year has not been a bright spot.

4. Bill Parcell. Yep CW’s mentor, guru, whatever. CW obviously has taken a lot from Bill. They both can be over confident and a bit of a bully. Parcell disdain for the media and fans has pretty much spread through his tree. Also, Parcell coaching tree is pretty shaky at best. Billichick was a bomb in Cleveland, he went to New England, surround himself with more of Parcell’s assistants, an owner dedicated to winning, and some talent and he is this generations coaching genius. Coughlin, was fired in Jacksonville, basically for being to demanding. Was almost fired in NY. Fassel was a big dud. Crennell and CW have not lived up to expectations, their own or their fans. Not sure what Bill taught these guys, but if you look at Walsh, Noll, Landry, Hayes, or Bryant trees I think you will find more success.

5. No leaders. No Zorich, no Mirer, no Culver to tell the young guys this is ND this is what we stand for and do it right or hit the road. I hate to say this but look at USC. Sanchez basically sat for two years and watched Booty play QB. Now Booty was not great, but at least Sanchez did not have to learn to adjust to the speed of the college game and be counted on to win it. Plus Booty was helped by Linehart, who was helped by Palmer. Booty knew it was his duty to USC to help Sanchez any way or anytime he could. Sanches could play in mop up roles or in spots where the game was not in jeopardy. The older players lead the younger players; show them how it is done from the practice field to the weight room to game day. Our guys have not had that since Lou left. There is no one to show the way. Really there is no time for development because you have to produce and produce now.

I am sure we could add more but this is my top 5. I do feel bad for CW and for the team. It has to seem to them like they are under an avalanche of problems on and off the field. If he stays I hope everything works out and he becomes the winner we thought and wanted him to be. If he leaves I hope him the best.
 

ARALOU

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I agree with you on a few things. I disagree about the o-line being bad from the beginning. The present one is not that good but the first two were pretty dang good. I, like you, cant figure out what happened. I still say that CW just lacks the charisma to motivate the players, it could be that simple. I think that we are not deep enough to have "spirited" competition at most of the positions. Depth may be the reason why the defense folds up in the fourth quarter. AS it was stated so eloquently in an earlier thread, that the defense gets worn out because the offense cant keep them off the field.


The Parcell coaching tree was interesting too. Pete Carroll. The guy at Miami, Sparano? Plus the guys you named.They have different personalities than the Tuna but you are right on with Weis. He is sort of like the Tuna.


I agree with you on the no leader observation. Although I think Golden Tate is as close to a leader that they have. He at least is vocal.

I disagree on the o-line assesment regarding being coachable. I think the O-line is the most coachable position. Alot of pro teams have no choice but to coach up an o-line. There are only so many natural born o-line stars, most of it is the type of system. Look at Denver or the Pats. How many big name linemen do they have?

Great post though. I appreciate your insight.
 

aaronb

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I agree with most of this. The Colts are a good example of a team that always brings in new O-Linemen and they become capable cogs. I don't know if it is Latina or Charlie who is responsible. However if the line had been better than it's been then alot of the other flaws would have been fixed. The inability to run the ball is the crux of everything wrong with this program.
 

MeanGreen

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Thanks ARALOU. I think I misrepresent my thoughts on the O-Line. We just do not coach them properly and there does not seem to be enough of them. We should be able to coach any player recruited to ND to play O-line to play the position properly. Basically the same guys played every game last year and that also goes for this year. Trevor Robinson got some reps, but I can not think of anyone else. Which leads back to the depth and competition issues.
 

ARALOU

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Thanks ARALOU. I think I misrepresent my thoughts on the O-Line. We just do not coach them properly and there does not seem to be enough of them. We should be able to coach any player recruited to ND to play O-line to play the position properly. Basically the same guys played every game last year and that also goes for this year. Trevor Robinson got some reps, but I can not think of anyone else. Which leads back to the depth and competition issues.

I absolutely agree.
 

kmoose

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4. Bill Parcell. Yep CW’s mentor, guru, whatever. CW obviously has taken a lot from Bill. They both can be over confident and a bit of a bully. Parcell disdain for the media and fans has pretty much spread through his tree. Also, Parcell coaching tree is pretty shaky at best. Billichick was a bomb in Cleveland, he went to New England, surround himself with more of Parcell’s assistants, an owner dedicated to winning, and some talent and he is this generations coaching genius. Coughlin, was fired in Jacksonville, basically for being to demanding. Was almost fired in NY. Fassel was a big dud. Crennell and CW have not lived up to expectations, their own or their fans. Not sure what Bill taught these guys, but if you look at Walsh, Noll, Landry, Hayes, or Bryant trees I think you will find more success.

How do you figure Belichick was a bomb in Cleveland? He took over a 3-13 team(1990), and proceeded to go 6-10(1991), 7-9(1992), 7-9(1993), 11-5(1994), and then 5-11 in a season where the owner announced that the team would be moving, halfway through the season. Belichick was run out of Cleveland because the media didn't like him, and it wasn't hard to turn fans against the man who benched Bernie Kosar.
 

Dacian_Irish

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I also believe CW is a ND guy and he loves the school like all of us do and that is why I want him to succeed. When others said we couldn't win because we couldn't bring top talent he disagreed and proved he could recruit.

I also thought that we would do so much better than 6-6, I don't know what happened:

Is it the head coach?

Is it the assistant coaches?

Is it the players we lost?(Walls, Yeatman, and like ten others)

So I'm super confused and I have no clue what to think and who to blame. I want to to win and I am starting to feel impatient but I don't know if a coaching change is needed! 6-6 is not what we expected but the teams best players are Sophomores and I have a feeling this team will do better next year.

The last thing I want is for ND to fire Weis.

I don't think they have a coach in mind. Unless Meyer, Stoops, or Gruden wants to come here I don't think it is worth taking a chance on anyone from a smaller program. Why you ask? Because we dont have 4 complete recruiting classes yet. This years class will be Weis's 4th complete and it is important that we maintain it. If Weis is fired how many guys decommit and How many guys transfer? So basically we start all over. So to me it seems stupid to fire Weis now. I don't know if he is the answer but I do know that if he is fired the next coach will probably have 2 good years and then have 2 down years again. The guy bleeds blue and gold and he deserves another chance.
 
S

scoutgod

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You should read some classic Greek lit. The tragic flaw is pride.

like a coach with ZERO head coaching experience outside of a year in high school saying that "every game you will have a decided schematic advantage," according to Sports Illustrated. ... and the Notre Dame faithful applauded.

like a prospect from a family of underachieving whining quarterbacks choosing Notre Dame as a "business decision" over the QB competition at USC since his brothers had their NFL dreams "shattered" by having to follow the likes of Manning and Tee Martin at UTenn.... and the Notre Dame faithful applauded.

like a prospect signing his LOI on the steps of the College Football Hall of Fame... and Notre Dame faithful applauded..... and the rest of the college football world saw through it.

like a school with its own TV contract, yet retaining an arrogant air that seems above the $$ making qualities of the rest of D-I.

..... It is a matter of identity. ND, and her followers somehow have a notion they can compete.

if you discount the Holtz years, Notre Dame since 1980 Notre dame wins 57% of her games, with amazing consitiency despite regime changes. It is a simple fact. And NO name coach will come as the anionted one.

That equates ND football with Indiana football.

Notre Dame will have the weakest schedule in D-I next year and still may not have hit rock bottom.
 
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ACamp1900

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You should read some classic Greek lit. The tragic flaw is pride.

like a coach with ZERO head coaching experience outside of a year in high school saying that "every game you will have a decided schematic advantage," according to Sports Illustrated. ... and the Notre Dame faithful applauded.

like a prospect from a family of underachieving whining quarterbacks choosing Notre Dame as a "business decision" over the QB competition at USC since his brothers had their NFL dreams "shattered" by having to follow the likes of Manning and Tee Martin at UTenn.... and the Notre Dame faithful applauded.

like a prospect signing his LOI on the steps of the College Football Hall of Fame... and Notre Dame faithful applauded..... and the rest of the college football world saw through it.

like a school with its own TV contract, yet retaining an arrogant air that seems above the $$ making qualities of the rest of D-I.

..... It is a matter of identity. ND, and her followers somehow have a notion they can compete.

if you discount the Holtz years, Notre Dame since 1980 Notre dame wins 57% of her games, with amazing consitiency despite regime changes. It is a simple fact. And NO name coach will come as the anionted one.

That equates ND football with Indiana football.

Notre Dame will have the weakest schedule in D-I next year and still may not have hit rock bottom.


Dude take the Pete Carroll era away from USC and you can say the same thing... take the Bob Stoops era away from OU, take Tom O away from Nebraska... 90 percent of the great teams in the last 20 years owe it to one coach... STUPID point...


and ND's schedule is below average, it is NOT the worst or even one of the worst... and since you want to throw history into it our schedule ( which was the toughest year in and year out for just about 15 years straight in the late 80's early 90's)kept us from winning at least two more titles so what goes around comes around... ND has earned some average years

the last two years scew any numbers you may wish to throw out, espec. since you insist on tossing our best years as if they aren't relevant...

final point, you are obviously a hater and have made numerous personal insults over the later 24 hours....

bye, bye
 
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