CHARLIE!!! Welcome to the HOT SEAT!!!

[jonesman]

As I was sitting this morning thinking how I could review last nights game, I figured why bother. It was easy enough for all of you to see that the playcalling was vanilla and predictable. That we made no half time adjustments. That our OL was getting manhandled and our QB was stinking it up.

In the world of college football, the tolerance for losing has gotten shorter and shorter. There are too many $$$$ at stake from bowls, alumni and TV contracts. Well, the reality is that Charlie has moved himself to the front row of HOTSEAT. Until this week, I was completely understanding that we had lost 3 games. We made some youthful mistakes in the game, but we were in the position to win all those games. This week it is evident that CW is struggling with making proper adjustments. Nothing looked different in the second half. He is being outcoached by average coaches. These are not the Urban Myer's of college football, but average Joe's who are out coaching the 4 time Super Bowl Champ. Charlie preached about decided strategic advantage when he got to ND, well I am waiting for that to help these young players.

At the beginning of the year, I said 8 wins, so I am not a Kool-Aid drinker who was thinking BCS. I understood our youth and growing pains would be evident. This was not growing pains last night. Now we stand with 5 wins and two game we should win left on the schedule. Reality is CW must win both games at Navy and Syracuse, plus MUST win the bowl game. This will not relieve the Hotseat, but make it more bearable. IF Charlie losses to either Navy or Syracuse, we will be a 6 win team in a bowl that we don't deserve. If he losses the bowl, he will come into 2009 as the clear HOTSEAT focus for all of college football.

Face the facts folks, CW has plenty of talent on this team to compete with every team on our schedule except USC. He laid a total egg this week and he is to blaim. The defense is more lacking of talent and yet they performed much better than the O most of the season.

In conclusion, CW is not going to be fired at the end of this season. These kids will put up wins in the next two weeks and we will end up in a bowl. But, if CW losses that bowl the off-season will be misery. Further, 2009 there is not an excuse in the book for this team to win less than 10 games. We will be fielding a basically an entire offense that has started for 2-3 seasons. We will have almost everyone back on D minus Bruton and Kuntz. Charlie will have 4 FULL recruiting classes of his kids and they are talented. A very favorable schedule. So, if we are mediocre in 2009, Charlie will be back to the NFL where he may be a better fit. I have been a supporter of his from day one until last night, but he lost some of my backing last night. I still would like to see him be successful at ND, but I am beginning to question if he is the guy. Let's keep our chins up, we are a proud fan base rooting a great university with great kids. The players need our support. Go Irish!!

 

[Guest]

[guy in the crowd] Fire Charlie!!!


[rest of crowd] Yeaaahhhhh!!!!


ND is better than last season, but it's obvious the offensive line problems are the sore point. If they cannot run, they will continue to be one dimensional and Clausen is going to have a game like this.

Don't fire Charlie. Find a new OL coach and recruit better OL talent that isn't soft and spongie.

 

[Irish74]

[guy in the crowd] Fire Charlie!!!


[rest of crowd] Yeaaahhhhh!!!!


ND is better than last season, but it's obvious the offensive line problems are the sore point. If they cannot run, they will continue to be one dimensional and Clausen is going to have a game like this.

Don't fire Charlie. Find a new OL coach and recruit better OL talent that isn't soft and spongie.

How can he recruit any better O-line talent. That's all this team does is recruit O-line, rb's and wr. But they still can't put points up on any middle of the road teams.

 

[midwestguy]

Charlie has lost 19 games in 4 years thus far. The year will end with a minimum of 20.

That is NOT acceptable. My fear is that since next year's schedule is so weak that he'll only lose 2 games and people will think he is a good coach and give him even more time.

 

[NDOM]

Clearly on both sides of the ball (excluding Brian Smith, Michael Floyd, Kyle Rudolph, Golden Tate) everyone [is underperforming]

Dont even get me started on John Latina. And I couldnt stand Jimmys cocky ass from the get go. Lovely 4 National Championships he promised to us huh? He's just like his quarterback coach if you ask me.

This is what it boils down to.....COACHING! Charlie Weis is NOT head coach material. John Latina needs to be fired and NEVER coach again. Mike Haywood needs to coach Pop Warner since he only has 5 plays in his playbook.

Yes I did count this as a loss but this is the 6th goose egg (Zero points scored) since Chucky took over the program. Its time to pack your bags Charlie, I'm a supporter of yours no more. I wont waste anymore of my time watching a Charlie Weis coached team. I'm through. I did enjoy watching Texas Tech though last night.

Mike Leach for head coach in 09 pretty please????

 

[PADOMERNUT]

As I was sitting this morning thinking how I could review last nights game, I figured why bother. It was easy enough for all of you to see that the playcalling was vanilla and predictable. That we made no half time adjustments. That our OL was getting manhandled and our QB was stinking it up.

In the world of college football, the tolerance for losing has gotten shorter and shorter. There are too many $$$$ at stake from bowls, alumni and TV contracts. Well, the reality is that Charlie has moved himself to the front row of HOTSEAT. Until this week, I was completely understanding that we had lost 3 games. We made some youthful mistakes in the game, but we were in the position to win all those games. This week it is evident that CW is struggling with making proper adjustments. Nothing looked different in the second half. He is being outcoached by average coaches. These are not the Urban Myer's of college football, but average Joe's who are out coaching the 4 time Super Bowl Champ. Charlie preached about decided strategic advantage when he got to ND, well I am waiting for that to help these young players.

At the beginning of the year, I said 8 wins, so I am not a Kool-Aid drinker who was thinking BCS. I understood our youth and growing pains would be evident. This was not growing pains last night. Now we stand with 5 wins and two game we should win left on the schedule. Reality is CW must win both games at Navy and Syracuse, plus MUST win the bowl game. This will not relieve the Hotseat, but make it more bearable. IF Charlie losses to either Navy or Syracuse, we will be a 6 win team in a bowl that we don't deserve. If he losses the bowl, he will come into 2009 as the clear HOTSEAT focus for all of college football.

Face the facts folks, CW has plenty of talent on this team to compete with every team on our schedule except USC. He laid a total egg this week and he is to blaim. The defense is more lacking of talent and yet they performed much better than the O most of the season.

In conclusion, CW is not going to be fired at the end of this season. These kids will put up wins in the next two weeks and we will end up in a bowl. But, if CW losses that bowl the off-season will be misery. Further, 2009 there is not an excuse in the book for this team to win less than 10 games. We will be fielding a basically an entire offense that has started for 2-3 seasons. We will have almost everyone back on D minus Bruton and Kuntz. Charlie will have 4 FULL recruiting classes of his kids and they are talented. A very favorable schedule. So, if we are mediocre in 2009, Charlie will be back to the NFL where he may be a better fit. I have been a supporter of his from day one until last night, but he lost some of my backing last night. I still would like to see him be successful at ND, but I am beginning to question if he is the guy. Let's keep our chins up, we are a proud fan base rooting a great university with great kids. The players need our support. Go Irish!!

Reps Bro, Great post

I am so sick of these curse ridden tirades that say the same thing over and over again. Its getting old. This post provided some good insight. I am questioning if Weis is the guy too, but I dont say FUCK FUCK FUCK HE IS A FAT ASS WITH A FUCKIN PUSSY ASS OL AND PUSSY PLAYERS FUCK FUCK FUCK. To me that isnt being productive. Saying fuck doesnt make you sound smart.

Nice post dude, I agree with everything you said.

 

[NDOM]

Reps Bro, Great post

I am so sick of these curse ridden tirades that say the same thing over and over again. Its getting old. This post provided some good insight. I am questioning if Weis is the guy too, but I dont say FUCK FUCK FUCK HE IS A FAT ASS WITH A FUCKIN PUSSY ASS OL AND PUSSY PLAYERS FUCK FUCK FUCK. To me that isnt being productive. Saying fuck doesnt make you sound smart.

Nice post dude, I agree with everything you said.

Nice rant PADOMERNUT! That just made me spit my coffee all over my laptop. Thank you for that. lol

 

[SoCalDomer]

I am as frsutrated as most of you after this loss. For the most part the comments have not been over the line towards individual players.

However, please keep it that way.

NDOM, if you want to point out the lack of performance by particular players that's fine. calling them names the way you did in your post above is not appropriate.

the coaches at this point are fair game. but i do ask that as before, the comments are constructive critiques, not like the example rant that PADOMERNUT referred to in his post above.

 

[NDOM]

I am as frsutrated as most of you after this loss. For the most part the comments have not been over the line towards individual players.

However, please keep it that way.

NDOM, if you want to point out the lack of performance by particular players that's fine. calling them names the way you did in your post above is not appropriate.

the coaches at this point are fair game. but i do ask that as before, the comments are constructive critiques, not like the example rant that PADOMERNUT referred to in his post above.

Sorry SoCal. I just get so animated dont I? I'm trying real hard to be a good boy I promise. lol

 

[irishfan1122]

I understand the argument of not having posters call out individual players, and I have never done it before; however, the athletes did decide to play at Notre Dame, not Syracuse. From my perspective, if the players do not like criticism from the fan base, they should have chosen another school to attend.

 

[SoCalDomer]

The problems I saw from last night land squarely in the lap of the coaches.

Yes, it's the players who execute on the field. But if that's the best execution the coaches can get out of them, it goes back to the coaches.

The playcalling on both sides of the ball is terrible. While I think the defense did ok, we keep seeing the same things. Most people are still trying arm tackles instead hard or big hits. I don't know whether that is lack of technique or whether they are never in the right position to make a big/hard hit.

The blitzing is always from the outside, leaving Brian Smith who while one of the bright spots on the defense, is undersized to be left alone in the middle. it's no wonder the opponents run up the middle.

Rarely on defense do we see someone have good college level instincts and blow up a play. Rarely do the DBs shadow the receiver so well that they can jump a route and intercept a pass or swat it down. On the broken up pass plays against BC, it was more the WR dropping the pass than our DBs making a great play. The failure to develop the CFB level instincts is coaching IMO.

On the offensive side, Jimmy threw 4 picks into double or triple coverage. so either the right plays weren't called to avoid BC's strengths and what they were doing, or the coaches didn't go over what they were going to do by watching game film with Jimmy.

the announcers even noticed he locks in on his target. Either the coaches aren't seeing it, or they can't get him to stop it; again coaching.

The play calling was again predictable. Once the defense figures out what ND is doing, the coaches seem incapable of calling plays to exploit the underneath stuff. i only saw a few plays where a receiver went all the ways across the field on a route; guess what!?! it worked. but lets not call that play more.

all of the throws to the TE i saw were just having him streak straight down the field. how about he just finds a soft spot in the middle, underneath the coverage? nope, that might work.

Ugg, IMO, all of the problems from last night point back to coaching. Something is not right. I don't know whether it is individual coaches, or whether it is the wrong combination of coaches.

It is obvious ND is not the place to learn ont he job. While each coach has their individual accolades/accomplisments, three of the top 4 coaches are all novices at their tasks. Haywood is a fisrt year OC calling plays. Charlie is essentially in his first year as a full head coach (the last 3 he's been OC), Corwin is in his 2nd year as a DC. The only one not a novice is tenuta, but I don't know how much he is involved with the defensive playcalling. Considering all of the 4-3 outside blitzes, I'd say quite a lot. But for some reason his influence just isn't helping the defense get more pressure or help the offense figure out what needs to be done.

 

[SoCalDomer]

I understand the argument of not having posters call out individual players, and I have never done it before; however, the athletes did decide to play at Notre Dame, not Syracuse. From my perspective, if the players do not like criticism from the fan base, they should have chosen another school to attend.

I didn't mean to say anyone couldn't comment on shortcomings/underperformance of the players. for example, pointing out (as I did below) that Jimmy threw 4 picks, probably b/c he still fails to look off the coverage, is ok to point out. just calling players names is what is inappropriate( like _______ sucks, or ______ is a wuss, or _______ should have his schollie pulled and kicked off the team).

 

[irishfan1122]

I didn't mean to say anyone couldn't comment on shortcomings/underperformance of the players. for example, pointing out (as I did below) that Jimmy threw 4 picks, probably b/c he still fails to look off the coverage, is ok to point out. just calling players names is what is inappropriate( like _______ sucks, or ______ is a wuss, or _______ should have his schollie pulled and kicked off the team).

Ok, that's cool. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[SoCalDomer]

Sorry SoCal. I just get so animated dont I? I'm trying real hard to be a good boy I promise. lol

I understand. being blanked by BC is/was unacceptable. but IMO, the problem all goes back to the coaches. even when certain players are underperforming. the failure of the coaches to get the kind of play out of them with the talent they do have is frustrating.

I thought i read that Texas tech's playbook is really small. They just get really good at running the plays they have.

 

[PADOMERNUT]

Open question to the board.....

Is it just me or does this feel alot like 2004? In 2003 we went 5-7, with a 45-14 loss to USC, a 38-0 loss to Michigan, and a 37-0 loss to Florida State, if I recall correctly, in other words, it was similar, though not quite as bad, as 2007.

Then in 2004 it felt like we were progressing forward. We were 6-3 and had lost a very winnable game vs BC, so we could have been 7-2, everything feeling good. Then we lost to Pitt as an 11 point favorite, got demolished at USC, Ty was fired, and we were disinterested in a bowl loss to Oregon State.

It seem like 2004 is a parallel to this year, where we felt good early and things fell apart. Charlie came in and led us to two straight BCS games. Will he be around in 2009 to experience the similar success he experience in 2005? Just seems like its deja vu....

Interested in hearing everyone's thoughts.....

 

[SoCalDomer]

i can't remember how 2004 felt, but I don't think CW will be fired after this year. Maybe if they lost the rest of their games, he might be close to being fired. But even then, he might just be put on notice for 2009 that if they don't feel he turns it around enough that he's gone after that.

for the record, i don't want to see him fired and I'm not on that ticket. do other coaches need to be replaced to get the right chemistry/combination to get the most out of the team? yes, i think something has to change at the coaching level.

the losing and most of all the lack of competitiveness against good teams needs to stop.

i think all of us could accept a loss to BC if ND played their best game but BC was just better. Same with Pitt, UNC and Michigan State. But Pitt and BC were losses where the opposing coaches out coached ND and the players wanted it more.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

I can't take it any more. I used to defend Charlie and our coaching staff, but I'm done. Anything less than 10 wins next year, he should be fired. Go Irish!

 

[Catsudon]

Reps Bro, Great post

I am so sick of these curse ridden tirades that say the same thing over and over again. Its getting old. This post provided some good insight. I am questioning if Weis is the guy too, but I dont say FUCK FUCK FUCK HE IS A FAT ASS WITH A FUCKIN PUSSY ASS OL AND PUSSY PLAYERS FUCK FUCK FUCK. To me that isnt being productive. Saying fuck doesnt make you sound smart.

Nice post dude, I agree with everything you said.

exactly, criticizes the game calls is more productive than just calling him names.

 

[NDOM]

GOD I wish I could find the videos to this but when Weis took over the program I believe he said something of this fashion: "you're going to have a TOUGH, NASTY, HUNGRY, DISCIPLINED football team". I have NOT seen that yet.

And I also believe about 2 or 3 years ago he said something of this fashion: "We will not lose to the Michigan States and Boston Colleges anymore under my watch".

Wow! If I could only find the videos to these. Charlie Weis is wrong for Notre Dame football. Notre Dame football hasnt been relevant since Lou Holtz. I personally believe Notre Dame football is dead until proven wrong. I'm still gonna cheer and be a fan, But I'm gonna cheer and be a fan of a middle tier program who is average at best year in and year out.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

I don't think ND Football is "dead." We have the talent to win football games, but the coaching has been lackluster.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Open question to the board.....

Is it just me or does this feel alot like 2004? ... Then in 2004 it felt like we were progressing forward. We were 6-3 and had lost a very winnable game vs BC, so we could have been 7-2, everything feeling good. Then we lost to Pitt as an 11 point favorite, got demolished at USC, Ty was fired, and we were disinterested in a bowl loss to Oregon State...It seem like 2004 is a parallel to this year, where we felt good early and things fell apart. Charlie came in and led us to two straight BCS games. Will he be around in 2009 to experience the similar success he experience in 2005? Just seems like its deja vu....

I had to dig deep in my noggin for this one, but I think you nailed it.

Interested in hearing everyone's thoughts.....

Since you didn't specify which thoughts you wanted to hear, I will add that I thought about steam-cleaning the carpet, but then thought, nah.

P.S. Great post yet again Jonesman.

 

[jonesman]

Folks,
10 wins is the only acceptable situation in 2009. The schedule, our talent, experience are all in place. I hope CW gets it done.

 

[Irish Rogue]

Folks,
10 wins is the only acceptable situation in 2009. The schedule, our talent, experience are all in place. I hope CW gets it done.

I don't think the schedule looks that much more favorable next year. Pitt/BC/Mich St/Mich/ at Stanford. ND should beat the likes of Pitt and BC, but BC currently has a better Program and is better coached. The blocking is less then adequate and their offensive schemes are lacking any imagination. Let's hope that things drastically change soon.

 

[bert2834]

I agree that our coaching is terrible, but I noticed alot of times that Jimmy threw the ball and hit his receiver in stride when there were not even looking. Coaches have to tell these receivers that they need to keep their eyes open and watch. If there is a blitz, the QB is going to have to get rid of it before he wants to so the WRs have to help him out.

Also, I have noticed that besides staring down a receiver, Jimmy never pump fakes to pull the safeties in. He just has to much faith in his arm I guess.

Just my opinion.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

... I noticed alot of times that Jimmy threw the ball and hit his receiver in stride when there were not even looking. Coaches have to tell these receivers that they need to keep their eyes open and watch. If there is a blitz, the QB is going to have to get rid of it before he wants to so the WRs have to help him out.

Also, I have noticed that besides staring down a receiver, Jimmy never pump fakes to pull the safeties in. He just has to much faith in his arm I guess.

Just my opinion.

Sounds like a football educated opinion.

Agree totally.

Today Steelers succeeded offensively on a pump fake/ handoff/ pitchback/long pass.

It started with a pump fake.

 

[china423]

charlie to get more involved in playcalling:

ESPN - Charlie Weis plans more active role with Notre Dame Fighting Irish offense

 

[SteveM]

QB Tricks Unexploited

QB Tricks Unexploited

I agree that our coaching is terrible, but I noticed alot of times that Jimmy threw the ball and hit his receiver in stride when there were not even looking. Coaches have to tell these receivers that they need to keep their eyes open and watch. If there is a blitz, the QB is going to have to get rid of it before he wants to so the WRs have to help him out.

Also, I have noticed that besides staring down a receiver, Jimmy never pump fakes to pull the safeties in. He just has to much faith in his arm I guess.

Just my opinion.

Bertie,

Pump fake observation is a good one. I agree, he does little to disguise his intent. That ties back to JC's extended throwing motion. I.e., you can't pump fake when your pump is a windmill.

Again, I think JC has a great arm and could be coached up out of a lot of the mechanical deficits. And I have no idea why he is not.

SteveM

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Bertie,

Pump fake observation is a good one. I agree, he does little to disguise his intent. That ties back to JC's extended throwing motion. I.e., you can't pump fake when your pump is a windmill.

Again, I think JC has a great arm and could be coached up out of a lot of the mechanical deficits. And I have no idea why he is not.

SteveM

I "think" that has all to do with Charlie's playbook.

Homerun or nothing. You perfect your windmill action when you are coached to launch the homerun on every pass.

Play action. Flair. Middle screen. Draw play. PumpfakehandoffthrowbackHailMotherTeresaQuickSlant...

 

[phgreek]

agreed jonesman...For the first time I must acknowledge we may have a mismatch. Charlie is a pro coach...he seems to struggle with motivating his ND staff and players to win.

Is it me or do these guys completely lack emotion. Its almost like "Playing and coaching for Notre Dame" is the destination... what about winning?

They are good people, but they are failing to raise the bar. I don't doubt these guys want to win...but they are failing to build an identity, and cerainly failing to sell a vision to the players...and the part that pains me the most...I don't miss Bob Davie, but damn, at least his guys play with some fire and emotion (although horiific discipline)...at least he grabbed some players and put a boot in their tails when they were flat..."Willingnot" and Charlie seemed to think this Stoic approach works...for who???...grab a kid by the facemask..get some spit in his face.

My vote is...go get Bill Cowher..Pro Coach, yeah...put a boot in some butts (staff and players alike), you betcha...motivational...OH YEA!

How in God's name could we have come out this flat against BC? How could we get bitch-slapped like this by BC? Where is the pride..the anger...the emotion? It's sitting in front of computers on irishenvy...

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

agreed jonesman...For the first time I must acknowledge we may have a mismatch. Charlie is a pro coach...he seems to struggle with motivating his ND staff and players to win. Is it me or do these guys completely lack emotion. Its almost like "Playing and coaching for Notre Dame" is the destination... what about winning?

I kinda think, given the money the coaches are paid, and the national stage the athletes and coaches chose, that all involved are a bit self-motivated. I think CW's playbook is imaginary, which leaves his assistants out to scape goats.

How in God's name could we have come out this flat against BC? How could we get bitch-slapped like this by BC? Where is the pride..the anger...the emotion? It's sitting in front of computers on irishenvy...

Funny last sentence. Agree. Maybe ND was bruised after the Pitt loss. Any ND insiders around that can add insight? Jimmy looked like he was protecting a leg or ankle or something.
Refs KILLED momentum.