My Thoughts On the Pitt Game

Rocket's Rocket Fan

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First off it was not a good weekend for football if you are one of the teams i cheer for, so I really don't want to think about football yet. But anyway my father and I had a great time. The game was a fun game to watch. Yeah the outcome sucked, but I really think these are growing pains that most young teams go through. After the Harrison Smith penalty and 4th down, that gave Pitt a first down, the life seemed to be sucked out of the team

We need to get a running game going. The running was working late, but was nowhere to be found yearly on. I also noticed that in the overtimes when we motioned Kamara, who was in the slot, towards the line it was always, ALWAYS, a run, and you could see Pitts D relizing it and playing the run. My Dad kept saying that the play action was going to come but it never did, and I believe it would of worked.

Ok here was the call of the night. 4th and 8 and we fun a freakin Wide Recever Screen and gain 2 yards. This was right infront of us. I never saw JC change the play, so I think it was called by Haywood. WHY WOULD YOU RUN A SCREEN ON A 4TH AND 8 ON OUR 15 OR 20 WHATEVER IT WAS. Throw the ball passed the first down line and keep moving the ball.

JC IMO took a step back in progressing. He was look at his number one recever every time he dropped back. He had Rudolph open over the middle most of the time. Pitt was running a Tampa 2, where the safties would cover out side the hashes and the middle backer would drop back in between the two. So obviously they would take away the deep balls to Tate and Floyd.

There was a few short yard situations that I was there was noone lined up over the center. The D Tackles were lined up over the Gaurds, and all we had to do was run the QB sneak and we had an easy first down, but we didn't.

Now here is the part wherer I think we will get better as these young players will improve with more experience. The later the game went on and the closer Pitt got too taking the lead this team looked they didn't believe they could stop the bleeding. They didn't play to win. I think they played not too loose.

They looked great in the first half, but in the second half they were a whole different team.

Things that I think need to happen:
1) Jimmy needs to stop looking for the big play every pass. Its OK to check down and pick up 4 or 5 yards in the passing game.
2) Haywood needs to be for agressive in play calling. Play actions do not work when you can't run the ball, and stop being so predictable.
3) Limit the stupid penelties. I understand that these are young players and this will happen, but they need to learn from them and improve.
4) Limit the big plays on Defence.

I believe this team is on the right path. They are young and this game is a game that they can watch and see where they need to improve. I guess the bottom line that I got out of this game is that, hey this is still a pretty young team. If CW and company are the right guys for the job they will improve. I still see ND being a great time in the next couple of years. Don't worry ND fans things will get better.

Oh and I almost forgot my dad and I also had a nice conversation with EJ Banks. Seems like a great kid. I was impressed with his size. I can't wait to see what he does here at Notre Dame.

GO IRISH
 

goirish90

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they will be alright just need to learn how to play a full 4 quaters of football with the lead at halftime or not!!! lets get a big win this weekend and get our self in a good bowl and finally win one then lets all look for a great year next year becaude guys we are young and have alot of talent on this team. GO IRISH!!!!!
 

ACamp1900

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If you look back at the game day thread I believe I posted something about teh Harrison Smith play haunting us for a long long time within a few seconds after the play happened...

No one has supported Smith here like I have since his recruitment but that was one of the most bone headed disastrous moments for ND in recent memory... no excuse
 

goirish90

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agree 100% there acamp did he get back in the game after that? I am not for sure if he did or not but then u also have to think didnt charlie say he was going to bring nasty back 15 yard penalty or not he wants his boys to be nasty?
 

ACamp1900

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agree 100% there acamp did he get back in the game after that? I am not for sure if he did or not but then u also have to think didnt charlie say he was going to bring nasty back 15 yard penalty or not he wants his boys to be nasty?

Harrison did play reg after, and sure but I think there is a huge difference between being nasty and giving up a 15 yarder on forth and long when you have basically closed the door on them... that play never happens and we win the game no doubt in my mind
 

goirish90

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Yeah you are probaly right but you cant put it all on harrison smith either and i'm not putting all of this on walkers shoulders either they all just need to learn to play a full 4 quaters of football and we would be a great time and hard to stop!
 

ACamp1900

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Yeah you are probaly right but you cant put it all on harrison smith either and i'm not putting all of this on walkers shoulders either they all just need to learn to play a full 4 quaters of football and we would be a great time and hard to stop!

I'll say this, if I am Charlie... Harrsion is doing extra 'shit drills' today... but that's just me
 

goirish90

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Yeah i can see that! i here chris stewart might have to get his knee scoped so here comes trevor robson this weekend and charlie also said something in his interview about switchin some things up any word on this?
 

ACamp1900

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Yeah i can see that! i here chris stewart might have to get his knee scoped so here comes trevor robson this weekend and charlie also said something in his interview about switchin some things up any word on this?

yeah I heard instead of a loss they trying to go for a win this weekend

;)
 

goirish90

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well lets hope that works out for us and if it does then will work on that in pratice next week also
 

NDgettysburg

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We need to get a running game going. The running was working late, but was nowhere to be found yearly on.
Really? Sorry but I disagree completely.....here's our rushing plays for the 1st half. There's absolutely nothing wrong with 4 & 5 yard rushes. Twelve rushing plays and only 4 went for less than 4 yards. Pretty clear to me that we could have ran all day:

Armando Allen Jr rush for 5 yards
Armando Allen Jr rush for 4 yards
James Aldridge rush for 8 yards
Armando Allen Jr rush for 15 yards
Armando Allen Jr rush for 1 yard
Armando Allen Jr rush for 4 yards
Armando Allen Jr rush for 11 yards
Armando Allen Jr rush for 5 yards
Robert Hughes rush for 2 yards
Robert Hughes rush for 8 yards
Robert Hughes rush for a loss of 1 yard
Robert Hughes rush for 2 yards
 

goirish90

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yeah ran all day why dont they throw here and there i know we have talented wide outs with tate and floyd but when u avg 4 to 5 yards a carry run the boy and when the put 8 in the box then u get tate and floyd involved make them stop the run!
 

Rocket's Rocket Fan

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NDgettysburg said:
Really? Sorry but I disagree completely.....here's our rushing plays for the 1st half. There's absolutely nothing wrong with 4 & 5 yard rushes. Twelve rushing plays and only 4 went for less than 4 yards. Pretty clear to me that we could have ran all day:

Armando Allen Jr rush for 5 yards
Armando Allen Jr rush for 4 yards
James Aldridge rush for 8 yards
Armando Allen Jr rush for 15 yards
Armando Allen Jr rush for 1 yard
Armando Allen Jr rush for 4 yards
Armando Allen Jr rush for 11 yards
Armando Allen Jr rush for 5 yards
Robert Hughes rush for 2 yards
Robert Hughes rush for 8 yards
Robert Hughes rush for a loss of 1 yard
Robert Hughes rush for 2 yards
Ok yeah I'll give you that I've been too busy to reall look at the break down, but then where was the running game the second half. There needs to be consistancy.

As for Harrison Smith don't get me wrong I wasn't bashing him. He is one of my favorite players to watch. I've met him before I have a friend who went to HS with him, and still talk to him everyonce and a while. It was just like that play turned the tide of the game, and I'm sure he will learn. I noticed Charlie had a nice long talk to him on the sideline after the play.
 
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NDinL.A.

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Ok yeah I'll give you that I've been too busy to reall look at the break down, but then where was the running game the second half. There needs to be consistancy.

As for Harrison Smith don't get me wrong I wasn't bashing him. He is one of my favorite players to watch. I've met him before I have a friend who went to HS with him, and still talk to him everyonce and a while. It was just like that play turned the tide of the game, and I'm sure he will learn. I noticed Charlie had a nice long talk to him on the sideline after the play.

Here's exactly why it's so difficult to be a head coach. You have a ton of people on here begging for the spread offense a la Texas Tech (in other words abandon the run and go to your playmakers). And you have a bunch of other posters wanting us to run the ball way more. Who is right? If we run the ball more and fail, pass-happy people are pissed. If we pass more and lose, run-happy people are pissed. We all agree that we want wins.

I will say these 2 things:

1. Our RB's aren't that great. How many times was AA brought down by arm tackles vs. Pitt? When is he going to break one vs. a good defense? The line actually made holes for him, but there comes a time when he has to make people miss. His 5 yard gains could have been 10-15 yarders. And JA got more looks than Hughes, as he deserved, and he looked HORRIBLE. Sorry ACamp, but it's true. Hughes gets in there and I liked the way he looked for the first time since the SDSU game. I wanted to see more of him, but he was 3rd string.

2. No spread offense w/out a running game has ever won a championship. Those of you who say we should just spread people out and wing it all game long are asking for a whole lot of fun on offense and zero NC's. The spread, run-n-shoot, whatever you want to call it, doesn't work for championship teams. Period. You HAVE to be able to run the ball, because if not, your 3 and outs that will come against good teams will tire your defense out in a hurry. We have to establish some sort of running game.

Like others, I said 8-4 would be a great season for us, and like others I was basically called a communist for not 'believing in our team'. But we saw so much promise early on that our goals shifted, perhaps too high. But 8-4 is still attainable. Let's hope we get it...
 

NDgettysburg

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Ok yeah I'll give you that I've been too busy to reall look at the break down, but then where was the running game the second half.
I didn't really compare 1st half possessions to 2nd half but my feeling trying to remember is that I think we threw much more on 1st down in the 2nd half....and then ran on 2nd down when you know the defense is sitting on the run. Not sure if that's true but it's a gut feeling.

I'm not a big believer in passing to set up the run...and I really don't like the chuck and duck style of offense. I pretty much hate passing on 1st down because often it's been incomplete and then we try to run on 2nd which the defense knows is coming...and it often doesn't get much yardage and we're forced into throwing again on 3rd....which the defense also knows and is waiting on.

I don't know why Tate didn't see more passes though...he had a ton of one on one coverage with Pitt having no help over top.
 

PADOMERNUT

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Golden Tate may be on his way into Weis' doghouse -- for his off-field performance. After the loss on Saturday, Tate opined that the Irish got "too comfortable" and therefore couldn't finish off the Panthers despite a two-touchdown halftime lead.

Weis did not appreciate Tate's candor, for one. In an unrelated discourse about second-half offensive issues, the Irish also specifically cited an obvious mental error by Tate -- without mentioning his name. Now, it's Enter: The Censor.

"Let's just say I'll talk with Golden and he won't be saying that anymore," Weis said. "Just like Michael Floyd was lateraling the ball in the North Carolina game."


That is from the Chicago Tribune. What did Golden do? I watched the game but I must have missed something. Can someone fill me in?
 

Rocket's Rocket Fan

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NDgettysburg said:
I didn't really compare 1st half possessions to 2nd half but my feeling trying to remember is that I think we threw much more on 1st down in the 2nd half....and then ran on 2nd down when you know the defense is sitting on the run. Not sure if that's true but it's a gut feeling.

I'm not a big believer in passing to set up the run...and I really don't like the chuck and duck style of offense. I pretty much hate passing on 1st down because often it's been incomplete and then we try to run on 2nd which the defense knows is coming...and it often doesn't get much yardage and we're forced into throwing again on 3rd....which the defense also knows and is waiting on.

I don't know why Tate didn't see more passes though...he had a ton of one on one coverage with Pitt having no help over top.

I agree with you 100% I looked at the over all rushing stats heres what it said AA ran for an average of 3.7 19 carries for 73 yards. JA and RH 8 carries for 25 yards a 3.1 average. If we can see that consistantly it would be great. I would take 3 to 4 yards on every first down but when its working we need to stick with it. What about a wide reciever screen to Tate when they are running that Tampa 2 defence. Get him in space with some of the linemen in front of him. I drawling a blank in if we did that.

But the game is over I really thing that this loss will be more of a learning exceriance for the team, more so than the UNC game.
 

goirish90

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I'm not for sure what happened but can you blame the kid he is right they got to soft and look what happened and i hate to say this but i dont think they have played 4 quaters of football all year long now this weekend is the time to start that. GO IRISH!!!!!
 

NDgettysburg

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Watching the game now....stomach is already turning. Boy things started out so promising. We should have killed this team.

BTW - Out special teams blew all day.....poor kick returns, poor punts, not the best coverage on kicks. Not why we lost, but...Ughh.


RRF - To your point, I hear ya! When you look at the play selection it looks pretty balanced but man it sure seems deceiving.
 

NDgettysburg

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I didn't really compare 1st half possessions to 2nd half but my feeling trying to remember is that I think we threw much more on 1st down in the 2nd half....and then ran on 2nd down when you know the defense is sitting on the run. Not sure if that's true but it's a gut feeling.
Well, it looks like my gut was wrong :)

Here's a list of what we did on first down (not counting OT). Passed and ran exactly 15 times each (9x in the 1st half, 6x in the 2nd half). Third quarter was obviously a killer. Passing on 1st down was 8x complete, 7 times incomplete.

First Quarter (6p, 4r)
--------------------
1st and 10 at ND 17 Jimmy Clausen pass complete to Duval Kamara for 20 yards to the NDame 37 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at ND 37 Armando Allen Jr rush for 5 yards to the NDame 42.
1st and 15 at ND 49 Jimmy Clausen pass complete to Golden Tate for 13 yards to the Pitt 38.
1st and 10 at PITT 23 Armando Allen Jr rush for 1 yard to the Pitt 22.
1st and 10 at ND 31 Jimmy Clausen pass complete to Michael Floyd for 11 yards to the NDame 42 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at ND 42 Jimmy Clausen pass incomplete to Armando Allen Jr.
1st and 10 at ND 14 Armando Allen Jr rush for 4 yards to the NDame 18.
1st and 10 at ND 29 Armando Allen Jr rush for 5 yards to the NDame 34.
1st and 10 at ND 11 Jimmy Clausen pass complete to Michael Floyd for 12 yards to the NDame 23 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at ND 23 Jimmy Clausen pass complete to Michael Floyd for 11 yards to the NDame 34 for a 1ST down.

Second Quarter (3p, 4r)
--------------------
1st and 10 at ND 35 Jimmy Clausen pass complete to Kyle Rudolph for 5 yards to the NDame 40.
1st and 10 at ND 9 Robert Hughes rush for 2 yards to the NDame 11.
1st and 10 at ND 23 Jimmy Clausen pass incomplete to Golden Tate.
1st and 10 at PITT 32 Robert Hughes rush for a loss of 1 yard to the Pitt 33.
1st and 10 at PITT 21 James Aldridge rush for 3 yards to the Pitt 18.
1st and 10 at PITT 13 Jimmy Clausen pass incomplete.
1st and Goal at PITT 6 Robert Hughes rush for 2 yards to the Pitt 4.

Third Quarter (0p. 3r)
--------------------
1st and 10 at ND 27 Armando Allen Jr rush for a loss of 5 yards to the NDame 22.
1st and 10 at PITT 37 Armando Allen Jr rush for a loss of 5 yards to the Pitt 42.
1st and 10 at ND 31 James Aldridge rush for 4 yards to the NDame 35.

Fourth Quarter (6p, 4r)
--------------------
1st and 10 at ND 25 Jimmy Clausen pass incomplete.
1st and 10 at ND 37 Robert Hughes rush for 4 yards to the NDame 41.
1st and 10 at ND 50 Jimmy Clausen pass complete to Michael Floyd for 9 yards to the Pitt 41.
1st and 10 at PITT 40 Jimmy Clausen pass complete to Golden Tate for 31 yards to the Pitt 9 for a 1ST down.
1st and Goal at PITT 9 James Aldridge rush for 3 yards to the Pitt 6.
1st and 10 at ND 25 Pittsburgh penalty 6 yard pass interference accepted, no play.
1st and 10 at ND 31 Jimmy Clausen pass incomplete.
1st and 10 at ND 41 Jimmy Clausen pass incomplete.
1st and 10 at ND 27 Armando Allen Jr rush for 2 yards to the NDame 27, Notre Dame penalty 10 yard holding accepted.
1st and 18 at ND 19 Team rush for a loss of 2 yards to the NDame 17.
 

irishfan1122

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I completely agree with what everyone is saying, but being a schematic guy, the game plan made no sense. Either they don't let Jimmy audible or Haywood cant' read defenses. Pitt played 3 basic defensive packages all day, which involved a lot of db's and minimal front line defenders. ND "should" have been able to run the ball, and the quick slants, hitches, and out routes were open all game.
 

domerfor life

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If you look back at the game day thread I believe I posted something about teh Harrison Smith play haunting us for a long long time within a few seconds after the play happened...

No one has supported Smith here like I have since his recruitment but that was one of the most bone headed disastrous moments for ND in recent memory... no excuse

I said the exact same thing Saturday. We played great defense, forced them into a 3-and-out and then that stupidity. That's after we consistently killed drives in the 1st half with falst starts and holding penalties. That penalty changed the whole complexion of the game. I was surprised because Hayseed is a really good player. We stop them, go down and kick a field goal or score a TD, and it's a 3 posession game. It's a completely different game. We gave Pitt new life and they took advantage. I am really dissapointed after Saturday's game. The coaching in the 2nd half was horrible. I've not been critical of Mike Haywood this season, but I really think he coached "not to lose" Saurday. There was no killer-instinct. I could play defense against an offense that goes run-run-pass every possession. We made the defenses job easy Saturday. Clausen needs to be reminded to checkdown. We don't need the big play every play. The offensive playcalling in OT was even worse. I just didn't understand it. It seemed like we were hoping for something and instead of just grasping the game by the throat. It was definitely tough to swallow. One more thing.......we need d-lineman in the worst way. Those defections on signing day are real evident now.
 

GO IRISH!!!

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I completely agree with so many posts above. We need to kill teams when we have them down. I am sick of the "we're ND - we don't run up the score" argument. If we are up by two or more scores, we need to go for blood. Screw what people think - many of them hate us anyway! Run a play until the defense shows you they can stop it. In the first half, Floyd caught every pass for a 10 to 12 yard gain. Until I see defenders getting their hands on passes, run the play again until they prove they can stop it. And please throw over the middle to the TE. Remember the times in recent memory hitting John Carlson or Fasano in the middle and watching them turn a 5 yard pass into a 40 yard gain. They did that because the safeties were out wide to cover Shark and McKnight or Stovall and the middle was wide open. Rudolph should have had about twice as many catches.

I am still so pissed. I thought I would be feeling better at this point.
 

domerfor life

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I digress. I think I'm like everyone else when I say that Saturday's loss was gut-wrenching. To me, it was like watching the inevitable after that personal foul penalty on Hayseed. I knew what was coming, but I chose to ignore it. Painful. The team didn't come out with any fire in the 2nd half, which leads me to believe that they were feeling a little too good about themselves. These are lessons a young team has to learn, which doesn't make it any less painful. I am a Tarheel fan as well, especially in basketball. I watched that team with Sean May, Raymond Felton, and Rashad McCants blow countless leads. They would be up by 17 pts and then coast only to lose the game. I saw the same thing Saturday. The point I'm trying to make is that that same team won the NC the next year. I'm not saying that ND will win it all next year. I'm saying that these are valuable lessons they are learning this year. It will only help them in the future. It's just painful to watch. Weis can rant and rave all he wants to, but these guys have to stay focused. Once you lose focus, it's hard to get it back especially when you're not that good yet. We should have smoked this team, but chose to come out lax in the 2nd half. If you keep losing games like this, eventually you come to the understanding that you need to play 60 minutes.
 

GO IRISH!!!

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Now, I am just speculating here because I truly don't know but...is it possible that the team doesn't come out fired up in the second half when they have the lead because they know (or have been told) they are going to go a little more conservative in the second half? Wouldn't it be more exciting to have the attitude of "we aren't letting up! Put your foot on the gas!"??? I would think for a young team, going out and running exciting, go for it all types of plays would be much more exciting than getting conservative. Just my thoughts, but I think they need some excitement and getting a bunch of guys into the end zone is a great way to build excitement.
 

NeuteredDoomer

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Just my extremely overly over the top humble with a massive dash of modesty (have I told you all that I won the "Most Modest Ever" award?) opinion on a small point, but I kinda like a team that walks out of the tunnel calmly, focused on what they have to do. Over-emotion can drain a team pretty quick.

Maintaining poise is something a senior-laden team can do.

My brain is scattered. That's just one thought in my mind right now. (Another thought is a dreamy one about this boobaged waitress that...)
 

NeuteredDoomer

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Well, it looks like my gut was wrong :)

Here's a list of what we did on first down (not counting OT). Passed and ran exactly 15 times each (9x in the 1st half, 6x in the 2nd half). Third quarter was obviously a killer. Passing on 1st down was 8x complete, 7 times incomplete.

Now THOSE are some great stats. Helps a guy see his own pattern. Great post. Thanks.
 

NDgettysburg

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I'm just really disappointed....more than a lot of losses in recent memory. More than even NC. This wasn't like a team that was well below us, came out and dominated every aspect of the game....we just didn't do enough to win a game that we had no business losing. Maybe it's worse because it was the first time I'd ever seen them lose in person.
 

NDinL.A.

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No, you could have been in Timbucktu and you would have been disappointed. You're absolutely right, we had no business losing that game. We're all pissed, to varying degrees. I'm going to a b-day party of an infant, and the family is a HUGE ND family, and the dad (ND all his life) swears he won't allow us to watch them in his house after that debacle of a game (it's an empty threat, but I get his point). We lost to an inferior team, IMO, at home. No excuses, we lost. I can't say they're inferior anymore because they beat us. So Saturday is a must-win --- again. I can't stomach another loss like the last 2...
 
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