how much longer will this go on?

[leahy's lads]

i am asking fair questions here..... not trying to make an entrance or cause an uproar...

 

[NDFan4Life]

No university has more of a fan base that we do...... that is a fair bit of respect..... I am tired of the media asking why we can't get it done with all the big names on the field and the coaching staff...

Who cares what the media says? All they do is pander to the USCs and OSUs of the world. They could care less about ND or its fan base.

 

[leahy's lads]

Who cares what the media says? All they do is pander to the USCs and OSUs of the world. They could care less about ND or its fan base.

I just noticed you are from NC...... were you there in person?

 

[NDFan4Life]

I just noticed you are from NC...... were you there in person?

Unfortunately, no.

I have a friend who has season tickets to NC games, but he took his father-in-law to the game. Needless to say, he's not my friend any more.

Just kidding.

 

[leahy's lads]

Unfortunately, no.

I have a friend who has season tickets to NC games, but he took his father-in-law to the game. Needless to say, he's not my friend any more.

Just kidding.

How many ND games do you get to??? ever eat at pat's pub in mishawaka..... nothing like the spirit @ pat's...... I think maury actually ownes it now.....

 

[NDinL.A.]

Folks,

I am new to the board here and just want to introduce myself..... I am a life long Irish fan..... been to several home games and a few away games...... 1. really just wondering how long ND is willing to put up with Charlie..... is it me or did he once mutter to someone that he would never lose to Sparty as long as he is coach @ ND?????

Then he talks smack about the boys from Kalamazoo...... can we just play ball and improve.... 2. why all the smack from Charlie..... Jimmy is getting better.... more confident.....but when will we go on the road and win against a top ten team???? 3. Gerry Faust doesn't look so bad anymore, neither does Davey or Willingham!!!!

Let's hear some input please!!!! Thanks in advance!!!!

Welcome.

1. When you say things like "put up with Charlie", it makes me cringe. He brought us 2 BCS bowls out of the complete blue, then had a crappy year that everyone associated with the program knew was going to happen 2 yrs prior because of Ty's awful years of recruiting. Now he brings us incredible recruits, immense improvement in tons of areas (which you even admit), more recuits are signing seemingly weekly, and yet you say we are putting up with him? Sorry, I don't get it.

2. I love the fact that he talks smack, and as NDMOntana said, takes blame and accountability when the team doesn't back it up. We need swagger; we are ND damnit! We need to start acting and playing like it! He does. With guys like Blanton and B. Smith chirping away and backing it up on the field (yet are softspoken and good citizens off the field), we'll get that swagger back, believe me.

3. When you say things like "Gerry Faust doesn't look so bad anymore, neither does Davey or Willingham!!", you sound ignorant. Beyond ignorant. Don't mean to be an ass, but you say you are a life long fan, then you would have seen how bad those coaches and teams were.

This team is on the rise, and you want to start all over??? Do you know what that entails? Re-recruiting former commits, convincing others to stay, new system on both offense and defense, a year of growing and learning the new systems. I mean, the list goes on and on.

So when you come to a new site, and say some assinine things which seemingly just beg for attention (kinda like just for shock-value), expect to get skewered. I don't mind a descenting opinion at all (hell, that's what makes us love Phork, Kmoose and NDOM so much!!!), but be intelligent about it. Again, welcome...

 

[NDFan4Life]

How many ND games do you get to??? ever eat at pat's pub in mishawaka..... nothing like the spirit @ pat's...... I think maury actually ownes it now.....

I'm assuming you thought I said ND season tickets. It's NC season tickets.

I've never been to an ND game. Although, if anyone reading this feels sorry for an oldtimer, I'd be more than happy to accompany them to one.

 

[Irish Rogue]

It is frustrating losing a game like that, but realistically ND should focus on winning a Bowl game this season, anything less then that would be dissapointing. If they don't, then I would evaluate the program from the top to bottom. There is no reason ND should not be able to accomplish that mission this season, they are already worlds apart from last season.

 

[NDFan4Life]

It is frustrating losing a game like that, but realistically ND should focus on winning a Bowl game this season, anything less then that would be dissapointing. If they don't, then I would evaluate the program from the top to bottom. There is no reason ND should not be able to accomplish that mission this season, they are already worlds apart from last season.

Wouldn't it be a little bit more fair for them to focus on winning the rest of the games?

 

[leahy's lads]

Welcome.

1. When you say things like "put up with Charlie", it makes me cringe. He brought us 2 BCS bowls out of the complete blue, then had a crappy year that everyone associated with the program knew was going to happen 2 yrs prior because of Ty's awful years of recruiting. Now he brings us incredible recruits, immense improvement in tons of areas (which you even admit), more recuits are signing seemingly weekly, and yet you say we are putting up with him? Sorry, I don't get it.

2. I love the fact that he talks smack, and as NDMOntana said, takes blame and accountability when the team doesn't back it up. We need swagger; we are ND damnit! We need to start acting and playing like it! He does. With guys like Blanton and B. Smith chirping away and backing it up on the field (yet are softspoken and good citizens off the field), we'll get that swagger back, believe me.

3. When you say things like "Gerry Faust doesn't look so bad anymore, neither does Davey or Willingham!!", you sound ignorant. Beyond ignorant. Don't mean to be an ass, but you say you are a life long fan, then you would have seen how bad those coaches and teams were.

This team is on the rise, and you want to start all over??? Do you know what that entails? Re-recruiting former commits, convincing others to stay, new system on both offense and defense, a year of growing and learning the new systems. I mean, the list goes on and on.

So when you come to a new site, and say some assinine things which seemingly just beg for attention (kinda like just for shock-value), expect to get skewered. I don't mind a descenting opinion at all (hell, that's what makes us love Phork, Kmoose and NDOM so much!!!), but be intelligent about it. Again, welcome...

Did any of these men go 3 and 9????

 

[IrishAlum1997]

Anyone who has seen me post knows I hate Mark May and the ND hate machine as much as the next guy. Truth be told, sports reporting is a completely different beast than it was even in the 88-93 glory days. I am a believer that we will see some ND media love once we show some consistent excellence, not a 1 or 2 year flash in the pan.

 

[leahy's lads]

@ his worst Faust lost 5 games...... Davey the same....... and Ty never went 3-9...... I am not making assinine statements just telling it like it is. Kuharek(speeling) back in the 50s won only 3 games.... so it has been a long time!

 

[leahy's lads]

Anyone who has seen me post knows I hate Mark May and the ND hate machine as much as the next guy. Truth be told, sports reporting is a completely different beast than it was even in the 88-93 glory days. I am a believer that we will see some ND media love once we show some consistent excellence, not a 1 or 2 year flash in the pan.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

 

[leahy's lads]

@ his worst Faust lost 5 games...... Davey the same....... and Ty never went 3-9...... I am not making assinine statements just telling it like it is. Kuharek(speeling) back in the 50s won only 3 games.... so it has been a long time!

I am sorry, meant to say Faust won 5 games at his worst

 

[SteveM]

Welcome And Watch Where You Step

Welcome And Watch Where You Step

thanks, bro...... I don't want to ruffle feathers just want to hear from fellow domers!!!!

Welcome Fellow,

Re: "I don't want to ruffle feathers..."

Frankly, that is impossible.

As an FYI, this site occasionally functions as a hyperbolic black hole. It's actually therapeutic should you have dual rabid ND fan - heartless prison guard sensibilities.

The ribbing is good natured. Except when it's not. You just have to learn how to navigate the gravitational fields of splenetic bile and share the communal focus on the Dome.

SteveM

 

[PADOMERNUT]

if ty was the coach last year i have serious doubts that we would have won a game. he put us in that situation to begin with. to blame 3-9 all on charile is ignorant

 

[NDinL.A.]

Did any of these men go 3 and 9????

I guess if you're not going to read the posts carefully there's nothing I can do.

Ty's recruits were so bad, 6 wins last year would have been a miracle.

He made mistakes last year, and he worked hard to fix them. You see the results (well, we see them), and now you want to start all over???

Please, PLEASE read my post over again, and explain to me how starting all over would make more sense than keeping this rising program intact? If you can do that, then IMO your statement won't be considered assinine, and I'll gladly have egg all over my face.

 

[leahy's lads]

I will make this final statment..... I am a TRUE ND FAN........ I just want to win again

Weiss went 3-9....... Kuharich went 2-8, in 1956....... Davey was fired after going 5-7 and Willingham was close to 5-7 as well , when he was fired. Weiss has been at the helm for 4 years....... why blame TY after 4 years...... ND gets top recruits every year...... just my 2 cents.

 

[leahy's lads]

I guess if you're not going to read the posts carefully there's nothing I can do.

Ty's recruits were so bad, 6 wins last year would have been a miracle.

He made mistakes last year, and he worked hard to fix them. You see the results (well, we see them), and now you want to start all over???

Please, PLEASE read my post over again, and explain to me how starting all over would make more sense than keeping this rising program intact? If you can do that, then IMO your statement won't be considered assinine, and I'll gladly have egg all over my face.

Again, ND gets top recruits...... tell me what their recruit ranking has been the last several years..... if you can name a recruiting class in the last 5 years, below top 10, I will let you throw a dozen eggs at me.

 

[Jason Pham]

Did any of these men go 3 and 9????

It's a rather simple thing to make a shallow comment but for what reason did we go 3-9 ? In what ways did Coach Weis react to our record ? How has the problem been addressed ? And in what ways are these changes being shown on the field ?

We go 4-2 after a disheartening 3-9 season, showing major improvements and fielding a competitive team and you were expecting what from this coach and this team ? I don't think you're going to find anyone that will disagree with the assertion that Coach Weis has made drastic mistakes. But his adjustments to them differentiates him significantly from his predecessors and we are witnessing the product of this difference. This is not only apparent in our marked on-field improvements, but in the cohesiveness and attitude of our current players and the eagerness of top flight recruits to join our program and contribute to the program.

Coach Weis was allowed to stay on, I imagine, due in part to his dedication to improving himself and his team and in part to his dedication to the University, another difference between he and his predecessors. In addition, he will continue to stay and be 'put up with' as long as he continues the progress that been undeniable but to the most ignorant.

EDIT:

Class ranking (Rivals/Scout)
2002: 24/13
2003: 12/5
2004: 32/30
2005: 40/27

Since:
2008: 2/2
2007: 8/11
2006: 8/5

 

[NDFan4Life]

If you want to read something interesting, read the following:

Willingham's Scorched Earth, Aftermath of Bad Recruiting Classes for UW | Bleacher Report

Irish Faithful: Charlie Weis Is Notre Dame's Future | Bleacher Report

 

[PADOMERNUT]

Bottom line is during the willingham era, ND did not get top athletes, so your argument there is moot

 

[kmoose]

Are we really still having the same old tired "Weis vs. Willingham" discussion? I'm not sure what wormhole leahy has been stuck in for the last two or three years, but this discussion of who's "fault" it is, that ND has fallen this far, is about as relevent as anything on that crappy show "The View".

 

[Sureal]

Beat that dead horse!!!

It's been dead for a year but beat it dead again!!!

Yeeeehaawww!!!

Never fails. If we lose to USC expect someone to post:

Weis needs to be fired

Weis sucks

Weis is the cause for the Financial collapse

I seen none of this after Purdue or Stanford...

 

[SteveM]

The Odious "Middle Ground"

The Odious "Middle Ground"

Coach Weis was allowed to stay on, I imagine, due in part to his dedication to improving himself and his team and in part to his dedication to the University, another difference between he and his predecessors. In addition, he will continue to stay and be 'put up with' as long as he continues the progress that been undeniable but to the most ignorant.

What bugs me about these Charlie and Jimmy threads is that they have become totally polarized trench wars.

I think Charlie deserved to stay on after last season. But ND eating a 10 year contract has to have some influence.

And the guys that want Charlie out, well it's premature because they are 4-2.

But the new guy is right about where ND is versus its talent pool. Butch Davis took a dogmeat UNC team to 5-1 his second season and just beat ND. That's the standard. Why shouldn't an ND fan expect as good or better?

I'm approaching this season game by game. But I do know that ND wants more from it's football team than 8-4/9-3 Frank Solich at Nebraska seasons.

I'm not saying that's fair. I'm just saying that's what they want. (And yeah. Sure. That's what I want too.)

SteveM

 

[leahy's lads]

Steve,

Thanks for your words..... I think ND will rebound but when..... I wish I knew? I truly want ND to get back to at least 9-3. We should be there every year. Notre Dame cleans up each year in the recruiting battle..... ask Tom Lemming..... Any how, I am not going to beat this to death any longer...... I want to take it one game at a time and hopefully it will pan out.

Your point about Butch Davis is spot on! He has done the incredible at a school known for BasketBall...... We are known for pig skin baby...... No reason we shouldn't be at least top 10 or 12 year in and year out...... AFTER ALL WE ARE ND!!!!!!!!!!! RIGHT

 

[leahy's lads]

Beat that dead horse!!!

It's been dead for a year but beat it dead again!!!

Yeeeehaawww!!!

Never fails. If we lose to USC expect someone to post:

Weis needs to be fired

Weis sucks

Weis is the cause for the Financial collapse

I seen none of this after Purdue or Stanford...

You know what, USC VS ND is the biggest rivalry in NCAA football....... Damn right we need to win that bad boy!!!!! It has been too long since we beat the men of troy!!!!! Stanford does it, UCLA does it Oregon State does it....... It is time to climb back to those thrilling years where the game wasn't over in the 3rd quarter. I don't want mediocrity.......

 

[NDinL.A.]

What bugs me about these Charlie and Jimmy threads is that they have become totally polarized trench wars.

But the new guy is right about where ND is versus its talent pool. Butch Davis took a dogmeat UNC team to 5-1 his second season and just beat ND. That's the standard. Why shouldn't an ND fan expect as good or better?



SteveM

I can see your point there (about polarizing trench wars), in fact I'm as guilty as anyone! I feel very strongly, as you can tell about these 2 guys, esp Jimmy.

But as for the 2nd point, you can't compare other schools rebuilding to ND if you're not going to mention the fact that other schools can bring in thugs from the ghettoist of ghettos as well as JC transfers, when ND simply can't. I don't see how you can ignore that fact. CW has had to completely turn the program around, recruit his ass off, and still have half the list a NC or an Alabama can recruit from. You don't think that is an advantage?

Now, with ND looking better and better, we have advantages that other schools don't have that are coming into play. But it takes time, and it ain't easy. Imagine wanting to get a player the calibur of Ray Malauga at USC, but having ZERO shot at him because they wouldn't even let him in the city of South Bend much less the campus. USC gets 7-10 of those guys PER YEAR.

So SteveM, if you're going to say Butch Davis has done this and that in just year 2, don't forget to say mention the whole story. You might also want to mention that CW had a top 5 ranked team in YEAR 1 that went to a BCS bowl. Yeah, he sucked last year for a myriad of reasons, but only a blind fool couldn't see the progress that the program has made this year...

 

[Jason Pham]

What bugs me about these Charlie and Jimmy threads is that they have become totally polarized trench wars.

I think Charlie deserved to stay on after last season. But ND eating a 10 year contract has to have some influence.

And the guys that want Charlie out, well it's premature because they are 4-2.

But the new guy is right about where ND is versus its talent pool. Butch Davis took a dogmeat UNC team to 5-1 his second season and just beat ND. That's the standard. Why shouldn't an ND fan expect as good or better?

I'm approaching this season game by game. But I do know that ND wants more from it's football team than 8-4/9-3 Frank Solich at Nebraska seasons.

I'm not saying that's fair. I'm just saying that's what they want. (And yeah. Sure. That's what I want too.)

SteveM

I agree. But I find it difficult to directly compare Coach Davis and Coach Weis. Coach Davis has proven himself already at the collegiate level with his success at the University of Miami. Though not an easy task by any measure, the turnaround of the North Carolina program can be attributed in part to the further developed coaching skills of Coach Davis at this point in his collegiate career.

And not to take anything away from Coach Weis, but he entered the college game further behind than Coach Davis, I imagine, and much further behind than the anyone had thought given our relative success during his first and second season. And while his ability to recruit, his ability to develop quarterbacks, and improve the passing attack are considered strong points, he is continuing to improve his ability to develop players and manage the program. Because of his ability to recognize this and because of our marked improvements thus far this year, I could see how one might expect the "nothing less" during his tenure and not far down the road.

I agree that should our team halt its progress and move back below mediocrity, we ought to consider other options at the top levels of our football program. But I am not entirely ready to scrap the improvements we have made this year nor the attitude of our team and of the recruits committing to our program until then. Achieving the "nothing less" will either require the forfeiting of those and the taking on of the pressure of finding a coach already proven at these levels, which Notre Dame football history has shown to be a difficult and unpredictable process, or the patience to see this season through and allow for the development and competence of our current coach to manifest itself on the field.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Again, ND gets top recruits...... tell me what their recruit ranking has been the last several years..... if you can name a recruiting class in the last 5 years, below top 10, I will let you throw a dozen eggs at me.

J Pahm nailed you on that above, so I'd duck if I were you!

You still haven't addressed how starting over would be better, so I take it you realize you were wrong?

NOW we are getting top recruits, not before. You say you are a life-long fan, then you'd know that. IF CW goes, so do the top recruits untill the next guy establishes himself as a stud coach...