for the positive ND fan

[mick2]

it doesnt matter what we say some people just don't like weis and never will i guess. jimmy clausen didnt have anyone to learn from, by the time he got there brady was gone, same goes for the recievers and backs and line and defense, they never had top guys playing ahead of them that they could learn from and DEVELOP. so they had to learn on the fly which is tough in anything escpecially hopping from highschool speed to d1 big boy speed.

take sc for example, they have had the revolving door so to speak, sanchez learned from booty who learned from leinart who learned from carson palmer. and you can pretty much look at every position on that team and see that there was somebody else that they learned from and helped develop them, there are always freshman that excel i.e. floyd but most of them will not be able to adjust to the speed right out of hs.

look for these youngins junior and senior years to be good and great and once they graduate we'll have dayne crist and some youngsters with some experience ready to step in right afterwards and so-on.

we're 2-1 with the softer part of our schedule ahead of us, this season is far from over and a bowl(with victory) is more than likely.

I'm excited about where this team is going and i can't speak for those who dont want charlie but like it or not he's going to be here a long time. and like it or not we will be competing for an NC again.

 

[regele1]

Great post, thank you

 

[mick2]

no, thank you.

this will be a long week after that loss to msucks but, but odds are we play better next 2 weeks back at home against purdon't and stanford.

 

[ARALOU]

I agree with you 100 percent. I think we have enough Irish haters that beat on the team. Why would a fan beat on them? Its is ok to be disappointed, frustrated, even angry but it is still just a game. How many teams go 12/13-0, 11-1, 10-2, even 9-3 every year? And some even consider 9-3 and a bowl win a great year. I am not saying that I would not like another National Championship but dang some schools would love to have what we have.

 

[ndlb41]

GREAT,GREAT THREAD!!! I love your thinking!! It is very nice to read that after what i have been reading on here the last 2 days. IRISH 4 LIFE!! GO RISH!!!!!

 

[NDMontana]

Great post, thank you

Why do you have the University of Montana logo under your screen name?

 

[Rocket's Rocket Fan]

Thank you I couldn't agree more great post mick.....reps

 

[phork]

It has nothing to do with liking Weis or Clausen or anyone. It has everything to do with why we are still sub-par. I can point to Saban, but I know the arguements I'll get so I won't go there, but what I will post is USCs record from Carrolls hiring.

Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl Coaches# AP°

2001 USC 6–6 5–3 5th L Las Vegas Bowl — —
2002 USC 11–2 7–1 T–1st W Orange Bowl † 4 4
2003 USC 12–1 7–1 1st W Rose Bowl † 2 1
2004 USC 13–0 8–0 1st W Orange Bowl † 1 1
2005 USC 12–1 8–0 1st L Rose Bowl † 2 2
2006 USC 11–2 7–2 T–1st W Rose Bowl † 4 4
2007 USC 11–2 7–2 T–1st W Rose Bowl † 2 3
2008 USC 2–0 0–0 1 1

USC was clearly headed to nowheresville... So what gives ?

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

i can't even read the threads this week bc of a lack of posts like that one that began this one. i can barely take all the whining. it's as if we've already gone 3-9 again. let the season play out and see how we improve before you all start freaking out.

thanks mick for a change of pace. i support the positivity. i see us making adjustments through the year. go irish

 

[coachjohnson]

Good post mick, its nice to see positivity. But it's troublesome that not many are posting on the positive are they?

 

[NDinL.A.]

Agreed! This makes up for your epic meltdown in my book. Well said!

 

[mick2]

wow, thanks guys i really didnt expect such a positive response. i really appreciate it.

 

[coachjohnson]

I'm all about the Irish, but I refuse to be a doubter. It's much better after a win but there's still good things to talk about after a loss. For starters, we have 10 games left, Go Irish!

 

[mick2]

I'm all about the Irish, but I refuse to be a doubter. It's much better after a win but there's still good things to talk about after a loss. For starters, we have 10 games left, Go Irish!

thats the spirit!!!!!

 

[MirageSmack]

Nice post mick. I have stayed off Rivals because it's a freakfest after a loss, and was suprised at the "abundance" of negativity here after the MSU game. Suprised because I still saw a lot of positves in our players, though not enough to win obviously, but still I saw positives. Last year, ehhh, not so much.

Unlike most here, I don't think ND can win a NC in this day and age of CFB, but I do want them to be very successful regardless. Hopefully BCS successful. Football today is a more violent sport than in the past, and I believe (my opinion, not necessarily fact) it is played better by players with violent tendancies. The SEC teams are the best, and who co-incidently leads the police blotters? Same for USC, tOSU, PSU, etc.

I don't think most of our guys, who go on to the corporate world, fit that bill. If you look at the teams that have won NC's this decade, they all have players arrested for robbery, gun crimes, rape accusation, etc. Felonies, not the little misdemeanors we get. We have guys arrested for driving a 23 year old to get beer, buying a hand job or drinking at a party.

It's just a different world today, and I don't see our guys getting a NC, though I sure hope they prove me wrong. Am I seeing this correctly, or am I way off base?

Aside from my rant, I still support Charlie, though I supported Ty until he was gone as well. I just see so many positives in our season to just give up. We have not played a good game yet. When we do, can you imagine how good we can be? Maybe not USC good, but good none the less.

 

[SoCalDomer]

The SEC teams are the best, and who co-incidently leads the police blotters? Same for USC, tOSU, PSU, etc.

you owe me a new computer screen.

mine now has soda all over it.

 

[fitz_bu47]

This is the only thread that I have read since the game. The only way to watch this team is to be positive about the changes that are happening. Saturday was competitive, we made some mistakes that killed us, fumble on the 10, pick in the end zone, etc. Watching last year was like getting kicked in the genitalia repeatedly, this year I can see light at the end of the tunnel, these guys are improving. For the people freaking out, wanting Charlie gone, etc, I don't want to see them on hear celebrating when we are legit again, which make no mistake will be w/in the next couple o' seasons. Be positive, enjoy watching the youngins play and grow up, and then everyone else can reep the whirlwind.

 

[mick2]

Nice post mick. I have stayed off Rivals because it's a freakfest after a loss, and was suprised at the "abundance" of negativity here after the MSU game. Suprised because I still saw a lot of positves in our players, though not enough to win obviously, but still I saw positives. Last year, ehhh, not so much.

Unlike most here, I don't think ND can win a NC in this day and age of CFB, but I do want them to be very successful regardless. Hopefully BCS successful. Football today is a more violent sport than in the past, and I believe (my opinion, not necessarily fact) it is played better by players with violent tendancies. The SEC teams are the best, and who co-incidently leads the police blotters? Same for USC, tOSU, PSU, etc.
I don't think most of our guys, who go on to the corporate world, fit that bill. If you look at the teams that have won NC's this decade, they all have players arrested for robbery, gun crimes, rape accusation, etc. Felonies, not the little misdemeanors we get. We have guys arrested for driving a 23 year old to get beer, buying a hand job or drinking at a party.

It's just a different world today, and I don't see our guys getting a NC, though I sure hope they prove me wrong. Am I seeing this correctly, or am I way off base?

Aside from my rant, I still support Charlie, though I supported Ty until he was gone as well. I just see so many positives in our season to just give up. We have not played a good game yet. When we do, can you imagine how good we can be? Maybe not USC good, but good none the less.

This is where i am going to have to disagree with you, i think as time has progressed football has become more of a thinking mans game, a chess match if you will, of course the violence is there with the hitting, but give me a violent fast guy or a smart fast guy and i'll take the smart one every time. And i do believe we will be on the level of those teams very soon. we have the talent of some of those teams but we dont have the experience and you can't teach experience.

i supported ty up until that loss to byu, that was the writing on the wall, and honestly fair or not if charlie had lost to sdsu in the opener i may have different views about him as well, but he didnt. ty was great for the school sunday-friday, kids graduated; their werent too many off the field issues, but he didn't bring in top talent consistently and he just did not produce on saturdays. charlie has shown that he can do all of those things.

its become a win now or else mentality which is sad but true and charlie came in and won right away with experienced players that had tasted limited success in his first two years and now he is really in his true second year of the rebuilding phase, there is a influx of young talent, young = mistakes, but young also = promise. while some freshmen are obviously ahead of the curve ex. floyd, robinson. others usually don't come into their own until there junior years a la brady quinn. not to mention the sophmores.

The old leaves(willingham recruits) have all fallen of the tree, and the new ones(charlies recruits) are beginning to grow, but they need time; and although it is tough to give that time(especially after a loss) we just have take a deep breath and remember we've been here before.

 

[BeatSC]

Good posts all around. If we don't turn the ball over, make a couple of field goals, get a few calls we win this game. Would like to see more imaginitive running game using Aldridge more but we do look alot better than last year. I think we really need to work on the running game. This has not been a trademark of CW yet. This is a must. I would like to see one of the counries top RB come to ND.

Go Irish

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Great post, after reading the lynching the team and coaches are getting from some members after 1 loss to a pretty good team, this helps.Of course no thread would be complete unless Phork reminded us all how much ND sucks.

 

[mick2]

Great post, after reading the lynching the team and coaches are getting from some members after 1 loss to a pretty good team, this helps.Of course no thread would be complete unless Phork reminded us all how much ND sucks.

i think phork is just one of those people who argue for the sake of arguing, everyone can tell me about how all the other teams with youth are winning, well all the other teams aren't ND.

ND is not in a conference, therefore our schedule is all out of conference, and they are all big name schools with good football history, aside from sdsu this year, all of the schools on our schedule are identifiable. no coastal carolinas, no youngstown states, no portland states. no teams that you look at the schedule and say "who are they" or "they have a football team?"

usc plays a decent(and i use the term lightly) ooc schedule but then plays a weak pac 10 conference. and i believe pete carroll started with a junior by the name of carson palmer and had a sophmore by the name of leinhart waiting in the wings, pete has obviously done a better than great job over there but he fell into a better situation than many may think.

same with saban, when he arrived he already had some pieces in place most importantly a young qb with an upside, i would like to see what happens once he graduates, im sure saban has recruited someone else to fill those shoes but, it just makes all the difference to fall into a situation like that.

then there is charlie who arrived at nd after winning a super bowl which took away from most of his time to recruit in that first season, gets a qb with lots of potential but no direction and turns him into a heisman canidate not to mention the back2back bcs bowls. everyone knew there would be a void in year three and there was, you have to look at it as 2007 and 2008 are his actual first 2 years, usually a coach has a tough first year(3-9) gets better the second year(fingers crossed) and are a formidable team by year 3(next year) and are capable to maintain success by continuing to recruit and not having voids.

first year coaches rarely have a good first year, but we had 2 good ones and now we have to reload, but i don't think their will be another 2007 for a long time. that was just inevitable due to willinghams lack of recruiting, i might be going out on a limb here but i dont think recruiting will be a problem anymore.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

i respect usc and bama for their out conf schedules. i really hope that we get bama on our list now that white is gone. those big market "barnstormer" games are against bad competition.

and just throwing this out there...if they want to add another big market game to the list SF would be great...for me at least. play cal.

 

[phork]

I don't argue for the sake of arguing. I state the facts. If you can't deal with it then don't post. I am an ND fan just like any one of you here, but it seems that the people who are over dosing on the kool-aid far out number the people who are severely pissed off about whats happening now.

I am not so sure about what is more respectable, going 3-9 with one of the hardest schedules in the country, or 10-2 with one of the weakest.

Either way mick2, stop calling me out. I'm not sure why you are so angry with me when I post my opinions. Clearly I am not the only one who shares them. I feel bad that your delusions of winning a NC this year have been crushed, but facts are facts.

And to that other clown, I never said ND sucks. But its clearly not the team that most of us were expecting this year.

 

[mick2]

I don't argue for the sake of arguing. I state the facts. If you can't deal with it then don't post. I am an ND fan just like any one of you here, but it seems that the people who are over dosing on the kool-aid far out number the people who are severely pissed off about whats happening now.

I am not so sure about what is more respectable, going 3-9 with one of the hardest schedules in the country, or 10-2 with one of the weakest.

Either way mick2, stop calling me out. I'm not sure why you are so angry with me when I post my opinions. Clearly I am not the only one who shares them. I feel bad that your delusions of winning a NC this year have been crushed, but facts are facts.

And to that other clown, I never said ND sucks. But its clearly not the team that most of us were expecting this year.

if you research the posts i actually never had thoughts of a NC this year, i said i expected an 8-4 team with a good possiblity of double digit wins, so far i am not crushed.

most of us on here are positive but objective ND fans, of course we believe we can win every week, didn't you ever play sports? if you did than you probably learned that anyone can beat anyone on any given day thats why they play.

10-2 with this schedule would be something every ND player/coach/fan could be proud of. i think you just need to forget about last year already and watch a young exciting team grow before your very eyes.

i'm not angry with you but you seem to think this team hasn't changed a bit since last year, when its so obvious to see that we have. you like stats right?

why dont you go look at this post on irishroundtable.

http://www.irishroundtable.com/?p=1367

 

[phork]

Again I ask, is 3-9 with a hard schedule better than 10-2 on a weak schedule. Those stats are meaningless at this point because in my best estimation we should actually be 3-0 and probably close to double those stats against the 3 teams we've played this year.

Improvement, sure I can see it. Unfortunately you cannot compare GT, PSU, UM with this years SDSU, UM and MSU. My question to you would be, seeing how things played out last year, if we played the exact same schedule, would we be further ahead or about the same. IMO we would be about the same.

 

[mick2]

3-9 is never better than 10-2, no matter what schedule, thats a dumb question no offense.

yeah the schedule is slightly weaker than last year, but who cares? at least all the opponents are d1, look at osu playing youngstown state, and other teams scheduling d1aa or fcs watever you call it.

maybe you're right maybe we will suck like last year and if you are right i will tip my hat to you, but i think you are wrong and i hope to god you are wrong.

 

[phork]

But this is the question mick2. If we played last years schedule, would we be the same team?

 

[kmoose]

i respect usc and bama for their out conf schedules. i really hope that we get bama on our list now that white is gone. those big market "barnstormer" games are against bad competition.

and just throwing this out there...if they want to add another big market game to the list SF would be great...for me at least. play cal.

Um...they play in Palo Alto, every other year, ya know?

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

Um...they play in Palo Alto, every other year, ya know?

indeed i do. i was there in 2005. last year i was out of town...in south bend of all places. i had to leave to go to a wedding. it's weird watching a game on tv while in south bend. they usually play out here around thanksgiving so chances are i'm back with the fam in texas.

stanford games are rather dull anyway. nothing exciting is happening. maybe the new stadium has people amped up but the old one was like going to a high school game. half empty with more ND fans than stanford fans. i say play in AT&T park (they have the emerald bowl there too) against cal. that would be a huge draw.

back to the thread convo...if we played last year's schedule with this year's team i think we go 5-7 with wins over navy and either purdue or bc. we're better this year, but simply not up to par by any means. at least there's still hope right now. last year every game was literally hopeless, even the ucla game. we should've scored at least 30 points. this year's squad could have done that.

 

[dre1919]

I agree with you Mick that it helps A LOT to have upperclassmen to learn from at the skill positions. This is a problem that is definitely shining through with last year's results and the slow maturation of talent this year. However, that alone cannot be used as an excuse as to whether Charlie Weis is a good coach or not. The reason for this is, ultimately, as head football coach it is his job to build up the skill sets of each player whether they have a seasoned veteran in their position class or not. Sure, the head football coach of each university is not necessarily going to know the most minute of details about how to play cornerback (for example), but, it is the head coach's job to oversee their growth and make sure they have top notch position coaches keeping them on track.

The head coach needs to make sure each player is reaching their potential on schedule, and being taught the fundamentals that make them transition from the high school level of competition...to the college football level...and ultimately to the NFL level. I believe this is the specific area that Weis is very deficient in, and it's really not his fault. He was a very successful offensive coordinator in the NFL. Well, what does that mean exactly? It means his strength is working with professionals that are on one side of the football and already know their fundamentals and have reached their potential. His job was to take that talent and use it in a well designed system that would attack NFL defenses and come away the victor. He did this consistently well.

Now, he stepped away from that singular mindset and environment of already trained individuals and has taken on the responsibility of hiring position coaches he feels are the best at what they do. Plus, he now must oversee that growth of players in positions he may or may not know anything about personally. He has to oversee a defense, a special teams, recruit kids from their home and high school, and deal with the personal problems of young adults. These are all unfamiliar territories for a man who has never been in them before. Even an NFL head coach, who has "head coaching" experience, would be daunted by this task (as it is so much different than an NFL job) so why is it unfair to say that Charlie isn't very well suited to the task? It's like taking an electrician and saying "Well, you fix electrical things...and my car has electricity in it...so fix my car." There's a bit more to it than that.

That's why I feel Charlie is ill prepared and over matched for what he is trying to do. Sure, he's a Notre Dame guy and he "gets it". That, and his shiny four Super Bowl rings, bring in recruits. The guy CAN recruit. However, our defense is never anything special (he is an offensive minded coach) and our offense underachieves when the talent in place hasn't already been taught fundamentals (such as the offense he was given when he took the job). Lastly, he's a fantastic person from the things I've seen him do. Does all that add up to being a great Notre Dame college coach? I doubt it. It's simply a job that is really unlike anything else in sports and some people excel at it, some don't.

Look at Nick Saban. Say what you will about him, but in less time at Alabama he's made them relevant and fearsome with a solid track toward the future. Plus, he already has a NC under his belt. He sucked at the NFL level because he is a college coach and that is where he should have stayed. Now that he's back, he had picked up where he left off. This is the type of coach Notre Dame should expect to have, and should get.