Is CW's playbook too complicated for college level

[tradition]

The person to ask is David Givens who was a former irish player and a Patriots receiver under CW as to whether his playbook is too complicated for the college level. Most uf us know that coaching success on the college level doe not necessarily translate to success on the pro level and vice versa. I think of Steve Spurrier, Lou Holtz, & Pete Carroll that have been successful on the college level but not as much so on the pro level. I would love to hear what Givens would have to say. Ultimately, this season will tell us a lot. Any thoughts?

 

[RKWhite]

Maybe that for freshman (also sophomores?) the playbook could be too complex, but if they hang in there until Junior/senior year they will probably be setting up for successful transition to pro's.

 

[Irish52]

It's not the playbook. The greatest trait that any coach, any sport, can have is the ability to lead and build confidence in each player to the extent that each player thinks and acts like he is the best football player on the field. Scolding a player in front of 80K in the stands and millions watching on TV is the act of a coach who refuses to take the blame for mistakes on the field....but, all to happy to reap the rewards of the good plays. Sad, Sad, Sad.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Too complicated? Maybe for a college like Miami!!!! These kids are in one of the top University's for academic achievement, they should not have any problems with the plays or play calling. Not trying to down you for your thoughts but come on, these guys are not getting into Notre Dame with mediocre grade averages or skirting entry exams. I understand your reasoning and queston but, these guys from Frosh to Senior ought to be able to understand the plays.

Dizzy

 

[Brown]

I never bought the idea that Wies' system is too complicated. Notre Dame had one of the best offenses in the country in '05 (the teams first exposure to his offense, ever)

Beyond earning the respect of their players, and motivating them to be the best student athletes they can be, I think a coach's effect on a game is minimal at best.

You can run the ball inside or outside. You can pass the ball short medium and long. There's only so many ways you can spin things to fool the defense; I think any "schematic" advantage one coach has over another, is minuscule.

 

[goldandblue]

It's not the playbook. The greatest trait that any coach, any sport, can have is the ability to lead and build confidence in each player to the extent that each player thinks and acts like he is the best football player on the field. Scolding a player in front of 80K in the stands and millions watching on TV is the act of a coach who refuses to take the blame for mistakes on the field....but, all to happy to reap the rewards of the good plays. Sad, Sad, Sad.

So are you saying that a coach should not scold a player on the sideline of a game? How many times did Lou grab one of his players by the face mask and get in their shit on the sideline of a nationally televised game? If a player screws up and blows it they deserve an ass chewing IMO. I will go ahead a Pre-Apologize if I misread your post.

 

[Dizzyphil]

So are you saying that a coach should not scold a player on the sideline of a game? How many times did Lou grab one of his players by the face mask and get in their shit on the sideline of a nationally televised game? If a player screws up and blows it they deserve an ass chewing IMO. I will go ahead a Pre-Apologize if I misread your post.

+1

CW, if not anyone else, needs to get in these kids cheerios every once in a while!!!

 

[grantphilly]

i hate to get off topic (not really) but i noticed that Dizzyphil joined in Aug, same as Gd93, and he only has 11 post and a positive reputation. Whats the deal with that Dizzyphil

 

[kmoose]

It's not the playbook. The greatest trait that any coach, any sport, can have is the ability to lead and build confidence in each player to the extent that each player thinks and acts like he is the best football player on the field. Scolding a player in front of 80K in the stands and millions watching on TV is the act of a coach who refuses to take the blame for mistakes on the field....but, all to happy to reap the rewards of the good plays. Sad, Sad, Sad.

Yeah...Woody Hayes, Bo Schembechler, Bear Bryant, Barry Switzer, Lou Holtz..........all mediocre coaches.

 

[Dizzyphil]

i hate to get off topic (not really) but i noticed that Dizzyphil joined in Aug, same as Gd93, and he only has 11 post and a positive reputation. Whats the deal with that Dizzyphil

Don't know.

 

[tradition]

Too complicated? Maybe for a college like Miami!!!! These kids are in one of the top University's for academic achievement, they should not have any problems with the plays or play calling. Not trying to down you for your thoughts but come on, these guys are not getting into Notre Dame with mediocre grade averages or skirting entry exams. I understand your reasoning and queston but, these guys from Frosh to Senior ought to be able to understand the plays.

Dizzy

To use a math metaphor, instead of starting the college players on addition and subtraction ( thus simple fundamentals), CW starts them on advanced calculous. Keep in mind, the pro players have already had the college experience and already know the fundamentals. It is all businesss with paychecks rewarded in the pros. The players go to work every day knowing their objectives. A different kind of motivation is needed on the college level. Weis's exposure has come from the pro style SCHEMATIC X's & O's mentality. Could he shift his thought process to the college level?

 

[Dizzyphil]

I just don't see how it could be too complicated. I'm sure the plays have been practiced and thought out. I see your point between the pros and college but, the speed of the game in college is much different and the plays should be set to the players caliber. These are not rejects in any way. All these guys are smart and should be able to run the plays. Confidence, on the other hand, may be an issue. This rolls back to the mentallity of the players which, in my mind, should be at a very high level. I guess the true 'tale of the tape' will be measured against UM this weekend after getting the rust off the first game and actually see where the Irish stand. Good point!!

 

[Bubba]

+1

CW, if not anyone else, needs to get in these kids cheerios every once in a while!!!

I agree. He doesn't need to be their friend. They don't need to like him, they just need to respect him. If you're out of line, take your a$$ chewing, learn from it and move on. Too many feelings getting hurt these days. Stop taking it personally.

I will also step down from my soapbox!!

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

I know it can look harsh, but sometimes there is nothing that gets you jacked up more than a coach getting in your face and screaming at you about how you are playing. Can' t explain it, but sometimes as a player, you need that kick in the butt to shake you up and get you focused.

 

[coachjohnson]

repetition is the key, and they get plenty of opportunities, its fine.

 

[pastmaster04]

Fundamentals

Fundamentals

I'm notorious for trying to oversimplify an issue. In any organizational structure, when an employee, member, player, etc fails to executive a simple directive, it can generally be traced back to one of the following:

1.) The directive was not communicated effectively;
2.) The directive was strategically unsound; or
3.) The directive was above the fundamental level of comprehension

It seems to me that the CW playbook touches on all three in one way or another.

Just an opinion...

 

[NDinL.A.]

I'm notorious for trying to oversimplify an issue. In any organizational structure, when an employee, member, player, etc fails to executive a simple directive, it can generally be traced back to one of the following:

1.) The directive was not communicated effectively;
2.) The directive was strategically unsound; or
3.) The directive was above the fundamental level of comprehension

It seems to me that the CW playbook touches on all three in one way or another.

Just an opinion...

I see what you're saying, but the one variable is that in a wrokforce you might be going against time as your only opponent. This is football, and you might have the perfect play call for the perfect situation, and everything should work, but then you have Glenn Dorsey obliterate Chris Duncan and the play goes south. There are many times in sports, where athleticism sometimes just dominates, and as a coach there is nothing you can do. Happens all the the time. Do you really think Doc F'ing Rivers is a better coach than Phil Jackson? HEll no, but he had better players with more experience and more heart. Now, that doesn't work for ND vs. SDSU, and that falls on BOTH CW and the players. But it makes sense for ND vs. Ohio St, and ND vs. LSU, both humiliating losses...

 

[mick2]

i've said this before, but charlies offense starts with a competent QB, he had that with Tom in NE and with Quinn his first 2 years here, his third year he had a true fresman trying to digest the offense and adjust to the speed of college ball! i think we should have started sharpley last season and let clausen learn the offense.

fast forward to this year you have a soph that took his lumps, now he knows the offense that much better and has a much better realtionship with his recievers, 3 tds in his first game, should have been more. but clausen should only get better with time and when he graduates we'll have Crist ready to step in after a couple of years of just watching, and learning. and who ever else we recruit at qb to step in after him, and so on.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

Will everyone who has actually SEEN the playbook or sat in on any team meetings please raise your hand?

What we see for two or three hours on Saturdays (or 4 and a half hours if the game is on NBC) does not give us enough information to answer these questions.

 

[WeisWeisBaby]

I'm raising my hand...

 

[mick2]

no but i know a few of the players that have played for charlie, as well as some notable former players that have given me some insight.

so therefore i am the all knowing when it comes to anything ND related lol.

and i am raising my hand as well.

 

[IrishGrizz]

I have heard the staff talk about the playbook in the past, and no matter how thick it is w plays, They still only use about 50 or so plays every game. Now they may practice 80 plays, but not 1/2 as many as what will eventually be in the book by the end of the season. On offense, they have fewpeople starting from scratch, so the staff will either add to or take away plays if they think the guys can't handle them.

So I do not believe the playbook is too complicated or thick for them. JMO.

 

[mick2]

my playbook doubles as a side table on gamedays

sit it right next to my lazboy, its perfect

 

[pastmaster04]

Oh come on!

Oh come on!

Will everyone who has actually SEEN the playbook or sat in on any team meetings please raise your hand?

What we see for two or three hours on Saturdays (or 4 and a half hours if the game is on NBC) does not give us enough information to answer these questions.

The point of this isn't to argue the highly improbably aspect of visually inspecting the playbook. It's a generalized statment I believe that the team on the whole does NOT appear to be grasping certain fundementals for one reason or another. Either that or they are simply way outmatched from an athletic perspective. People are simply trying to analyze the WHYs of the matter.