parenting question. because i think this was a little overkill

[SouthernIrish]

a kid we know, younger brother of a good friend of my son's, was arrested a week ago. He was in a big neighborhood where the middle schoolers traditionally play "manhunt". They make teams and run all through out the neighborhood trying to capture each other. My son played it, they all do. This kid, who is a senior in HS was out with a buddy and their paint guns. They see some kids they know and start chasing them. He fired the paint gun over their heads, never struck anyone. They ended up corning them in the tennis court where he fired over their heads again. one of the kids got spooked and ran home.

Next thing you know, cops, handcuffs, two nights in jail and a dozen FELONIES. charged with aggravated assault, false imprisonment and carrying a concealed weapon. Story all over the news, his mug shot, the works.

This is a great kid. Never been in trouble, honor roll, athlete AND has an appointment to the Naval Academy.

It was a stupid thing to do. He should be punished. BUT. he never directly aimed at or struck any of the kids. One of the dad's was on the news saying he thought it was a crock and he would never have filed charges. His kids were laughing about it.

its just this one family that is pushing this.

I do not know how someone could sleep at night knowing they are ruining a kid's life over something like this. Felonies? He will lose his appointment over this. Do people not understand how very easily a kid can do something stupid?
when i think of the stupid stuff my brothers did and the stupid stuff my kids probably did but i don't know about, this just seems insane.

I know there are a lot of dads on here. What is your take?

 

[goldandblue]

I'm with you lets not blow things out of proportion huh!! People are crazy these days.

 

[NDOM]

a kid we know, younger brother of a good friend of my son's, was arrested a week ago. He was in a big neighborhood where the middle schoolers traditionally play "manhunt". They make teams and run all through out the neighborhood trying to capture each other. My son played it, they all do. This kid, who is a senior in HS was out with a buddy and their paint guns. They see some kids they know and start chasing them. He fired the paint gun over their heads, never struck anyone. They ended up corning them in the tennis court where he fired over their heads again. one of the kids got spooked and ran home.

Next thing you know, cops, handcuffs, two nights in jail and a dozen FELONIES. charged with aggravated assault, false imprisonment and carrying a concealed weapon. Story all over the news, his mug shot, the works.

This is a great kid. Never been in trouble, honor roll, athlete AND has an appointment to the Naval Academy.

It was a stupid thing to do. He should be punished. BUT. he never directly aimed at or struck any of the kids. One of the dad's was on the news saying he thought it was a crock and he would never have filed charges. His kids were laughing about it.

its just this one family that is pushing this.

I do not know how someone could sleep at night knowing they are ruining a kid's life over something like this. Felonies? He will lose his appointment over this. Do people not understand how very easily a kid can do something stupid?
when i think of the stupid stuff my brothers did and the stupid stuff my kids probably did but i don't know about, this just seems insane.

I know there are a lot of dads on here. What is your take?

Felony with a paint gun???? They were just having fun for crying out loud. No harm done in that. Now if you get busted with a joint or a little bit of marijuana thats a small misdimeanor, and theyre giving a kid felonious charges with a paint gun? Thats bullshit. He didnt hurt anyone, He didnt destruct any property.... I think this is way out of line.

 

[SouthernIrish]

If it were one of my boys, I would have made them be unpaid labor for the summer, mowing that families lawn, washing cars whatever. Paintball gun, sold. Lots of things that could be done that don't involve felonies. But these parents are pushing it to the hilt.


this is an example of the area i live and teach in. I taught in East St. Louis for five years and sometimes dealing with some of these parents makes me long for the inner city. I feel bad for these kids when the real world hits and mommy can't make it better or rescue them.
You should see some of the emails i have gotten over the years. I print some of the good ones out and put in a folder to read when I am in the crazy old teacher home.

 

[notredomer23]

If the story is getting publicized enough i bet the charges will be dropped. Im sorry but that is just reall funny, but it was dumb. I hate those type of parents that are so overly protective of their kid.

 

[Epitome]

Sad story, How old were the kids they scared?

 

[GoshenGipper]

I do not know how someone could sleep at night knowing they are ruining a kid's life over something like this. Felonies?

Because there are a lot of selfish douchebags in this coutry. Those are the same type of people that would sue over nothing too.

If I were the dad and my kid came running home and told me what really happened I would have told him to man up and get over it, because if you let a little nothing thing like that have a big effect on you then you're going to be in for a real shock when you enter the real world.

 

[SoCalDomer]

A couple of thoughts. but first let me preface it by saying it is absolutely impossible to make a good assesment without all the facts. I'm not faulting you SI or saying you've held back, but it is probably not possible to describe all the facts here. One fact may significantly change the situation.

for example, one major piece of info I would want to know are how old the kids are. 10-11 is far different than 16-17. but nevertheless...

1) perhaps (i say perhaps because there's not enough facts here to determine) the reason the victim's family is pushing so hard is because of the bad attitude of the responsible boy. depending on how contrite he was and how much responsibility he was taking, i might be pushing for felony charges too until he outwardly expressed the type of remorse expected. but if he and his family responded the way SI said she would in post #4, that might satisfy me.

2) it is easy to laugh this off with the sterilized story across the internet, but a few feet difference changes this story from "the victim is making too big a deal of this" to "the victim forever lost an eye." yes it might change the responsible boy's life, but this had potential to forever change the victim's life. the fact no one lost an eye doesn't change the seriousness of it to me.

bottom line, you don't point a gun (paint, pellet or real) at anyone. aiming over someone's head is the same as aiming at them. criminal law is just as much about punishing the individual as it is sending a message to the public that certain conduct will not be tolerated.

another thing everyone should be aware of. district attorneys always plead the maximum charges they can. they may later reduce the charges, but if you plead lower, you can never go higher. so it is likely the DA will later reduce the charges once all the evidence comes in. they could also later be reduced in a plea deal. so the fact they are being charged with felonies is not unusual.

 

[GoshenGipper]

I still think the other kid needs to grow a set.

 

[NDgrandson]

I think the kid needs to reach out to the family and sincerely apologize. If that does not work, have the community start a protest. ???

If my son did that, I would be quite disappointed, but fighting for leniency. It is examples like this which lead to not getting a second chance. All it takes is making one bad decision, using poor judgedment and who knows what could happen. This is what the rest of us parents get to use as a coaching moment.

 

[SouthernIrish]

I am actually pretty close to this situation and have talked to the family of one of the boys involved as well as the boy that had the paint gun. So I made my judgement based on what those actually involved said.

I think that punishment should fit the crime.This punishment is far too severe. No one was injured. No one was struck with a paintball. It was a very stupid thing to do. The boys involved were 11 and 12, he was 18. Stupid. However, one of the older boys was a cousin of the younger ones. They all knew each other.

I do not agree that aiming a paintball gun, a gaget that is specifically made to fire at people in a game, warrants felony charges. The fact that no one was actually hurt really makes that crazy to me.

Two high school kids this week jumped another kid in the parking lot at school. They were suspended from school. They were arrested and charged with battery or some type of misdemeanor. Why not a felony with that? A fist into the face and a kick to the stomach is going to do more damage than a paintball.

If a paintball gun is considered a weapon that's use can bring about felony charges than they should stop selling them without a license.

 

[SoCalDomer]

Two high school kids this week jumped another kid in the parking lot at school. They were suspended from school. They were arrested and charged with battery or some type of misdemeanor. Why not a felony with that? A fist into the face and a kick to the stomach is going to do more damage than a paintball.

If a paintball gun is considered a weapon that's use can bring about felony charges than they should stop selling them without a license.

yes, it's the paintball gun that makes the difference in the charges. using a firearm during a robbery changes the nature of the charges compared to a robbery without a firearm.

 

[SouthernIrish]

i guess i just don't consider it a firearm as in a gun. I have been hit with a paint ball. It left a welt. A child can buy one, there are no age limits for paintball guns in my town. There is a law that firing one at another person can lead to a $1000 fine depending on the circumstances. But NOT a felony.

If this was as henious an attack as the charges state, why did the other four families not file charges? According to them, it has been totally blown out of proportion.

I know it was stupid. But everyone of us that has kids better realize that no matter how good a kid they are and no matter how good we were with parenting, they can ALL do something stupid. All you can ask is for the punishment to fit the crime. IMO this does not.

 

[quiksilver253]

Maybe they should have shot them in the face just to get their moneys worth because it seems like those charges are suitable for that crime instead of what they did

 

[quiksilver253]

wait...the kid's cousin in the one pressing charges???? that's one fu@#ed up family

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

I still think the other kid needs to grow a set.

Pretty easy to take that stance when you don't have kids of your own. Have a child or two and tell me how you feel about this.

I'd have this friggin' kids' a$$ in a sling as well.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

I am actually pretty close to this situation and have talked to the family of one of the boys involved as well as the boy that had the paint gun. So I made my judgement based on what those actually involved said.

I think that punishment should fit the crime.This punishment is far too severe. No one was injured. No one was struck with a paintball. It was a very stupid thing to do. The boys involved were 11 and 12, he was 18. Stupid. However, one of the older boys was a cousin of the younger ones. They all knew each other.

I do not agree that aiming a paintball gun, a gaget that is specifically made to fire at people in a game, warrants felony charges. The fact that no one was actually hurt really makes that crazy to me.

Two high school kids this week jumped another kid in the parking lot at school. They were suspended from school. They were arrested and charged with battery or some type of misdemeanor. Why not a felony with that? A fist into the face and a kick to the stomach is going to do more damage than a paintball.

If a paintball gun is considered a weapon that's use can bring about felony charges than they should stop selling them without a license.

I agree with the ruling...

 

[phork]

18 picking on 11-12 year olds? While the charges certainly do not fit this crime, he should be held accountable for his actions. If my kid came running home scared shitless, I'd be grabbing a bat and going to find these twits. Obviously not doing anything physical, but just to "scare" them back, case closed.
A gun is a gun, not everyone knows what a paintball gun looks like, nor real guns. Just because you hold up a bank with a BB-Gun, you will still be charged with armed robbery.
In the end the kid should pay, but he shouldn't lose his appointment. Lets not ruin his life for something stupid. There are too many lost youths as it is.

 

[Irish93]

Pretty easy to take that stance when you don't have kids of your own. Have a child or two and tell me how you feel about this.

I'd have this friggin' kids' a$$ in a sling as well.

I'm with you. (1) It is easy to have a cold attitude if you don't have any kids; and (2) If my kid came home crying because he was being tormented by older kids, I would make damn sure that the bullies didn't do it again.

 

[grantphilly]

thats bs

 

[MirageSmack]

I don't have a real opinion one way or the other because there are a lot of thing s I don't know, such as other stupid things this kid may have done. I'm assuming this isn't his 1st time. But here's a few points anyway.

There was a fatality in the past few years involving a paint gun, FYI, although it was several close range shots to the head.

Oddly enough, Chris Vaughn , formerly of ND was doing this same practice last year at UofL. He and others were attacking crowds of people at haunted houses. He got a light suspension from the football team.

On a related notes involving me in 5th grade: I was attacked by two kids with BB guns. They were shooting at me while I was on my bike. I took off, and they began chasing me. They were in HS. I ended up losing control taking a corner, hit a brick column entrance to a subdivision and then got hit by a car. I cracked by head open pretty good. Nothing happened to those kids because I refused to rat them out.

On the whole though, I prefer a heavy dose of punishment for stupid things because I was surrounded by a lot of tradgedy growing up. I had 7 friends killed just in HS, mostly doing stupid stuff involving alcohol, or just acting stupid. I wonder if they had been punished more heavily instead of given the rope to hang themselves, maybe they'd still be alive today. I'm just sayin.

Good luck to your friend. Hope it all works out. I'm betting charges are drooped below a felony, as they always are.

 

[onenybrother]

My wife is a Juvenile Probation Officer there are many kid's on probation for very minor offenses. A kid who get into a straight up fight in school get his ass kicked. When he goe's home and his parents see the fat lip, they normally will press charges. I blame it on the parent's raising video kids. When I was growing up we played some of the rougest game's imaginable, and god forbid if you started bytching up. But now everyone want's to call the cop's for the slighest things. My advice is get a good lawyer and make sure they record stays a juvenille one if convicted.

 

[Sureal]

Pretty easy to take that stance when you don't have kids of your own. Have a child or two and tell me how you feel about this.

I'd have this friggin' kids' a$$ in a sling as well.

Ditto. Especially if he's eighteen. I'd call the cops on MYSELF...

Me: yeah 911 can you send the cops over such and such address in about two minutes
because that's all that it will take. I'll be waiting for you by the unconscious body. The evidence will be on my fist so you don't have to worry.

 

[GoshenGipper]

Pretty easy to take that stance when you don't have kids of your own. Have a child or two and tell me how you feel about this.

I'd have this friggin' kids' a$$ in a sling as well.

I do have two nephews and a neice as well as being an assitant youth leader. I'm not saying the kid shouldn't have done it, but how many stupid things did you do when you were that age?

If I were the parent I would have told my kid to suck up if he wasn't actually injured, and I would be fine with an apology and some sort of stupid punishment for the other kid. Just something enough to make him think twice about doing it again, nothing to ruin his life.

 

[SouthernIrish]

Ditto. Especially if he's eighteen. I'd call the cops on MYSELF...

Me: yeah 911 can you send the cops over such and such address in about two minutes
because that's all that it will take. I'll be waiting for you by the unconscious body. The evidence will be on my fist so you don't have to worry.

see, that is what the parents did, they went straight to the cops without talking to anyone other than their son. All they heard was "He was shooting at me with a paintball gun and held me hostage on the tennis courts" from a crying kid. They went ballistic.

This is the story i heard today, as verified by the other three boys that were chased. They were all playing manhunt. As in you chase other kids. In the game, the object is to capture the otherside and take them to your homebase. Then they have to stay there until their team can rescue them. The boys chased them to the tennis courts, with the paint ball gun being fired in the air yippe ky-yah cowboy style. Then the little kid got scared and ran home. This one kid was younger then the rest playing. Now, why a kid 11 years old is allowed to run all over the neighborhood with older kids at night is a question in itself and in my opinion his parents are accountable for that aspect. The father told the police that the boy was terrorizing his son and holding him hostage on the tennis courts. That is where the felonies, handcuffs, two nights in jail etc came in.

So yes, I still feel it was an over reaction and I HAVE kids. In the first place, my ll year old would not be running around in the dark with older kids. But if he came home with this story I would not grab a bat and I would not call the cops until I had talked to the kid, the others involved and his parents. The other families did just that and they too think too big deal has been made out of this.

Even if they reduce it to misdemeanor charges, he will lose his appointment. This the very first time he has ever been in trouble. He is universally known as a good kid. The high school teachers are in an uproar over this because quite a few of them have been involved helping with his appointment.

My point is when did calling the cops become the first resort? We had some 12 year olds walk around the neighborhood last summer stealing security signs, yard ornaments etc and then threw them down a sewer. A neighbor caught them redhanded. Called their parents and sent out a neighborhood email. Their parents made them write apology notes to 25 neighbors, hand deliver them with a promise of two hours of yard work for each home they hit. Now, he could have called the cops, had them charged with vandalism etc. I liked the way he handled it. 50 hours of "community service" was okay with me.

Sorry, but i it was overboard. I would not have handled it that way.Over the years between my kids and the ones I teach, I have learned to NEVER react right off the cuff. There is usally a lot more going on then what you first hear. If I just reacted to the stuff my kids come to school and tell me, I would be on the phone to child protective services three times a week.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

a kid we know, younger brother of a good friend of my son's, was arrested a week ago. He was in a big neighborhood where the middle schoolers traditionally play "manhunt". They make teams and run all through out the neighborhood trying to capture each other. My son played it, they all do. This kid, who is a senior in HS was out with a buddy and their paint guns. They see some kids they know and start chasing them. He fired the paint gun over their heads, never struck anyone. They ended up corning them in the tennis court where he fired over their heads again. one of the kids got spooked and ran home.

Next thing you know, cops, handcuffs, two nights in jail and a dozen FELONIES. charged with aggravated assault, false imprisonment and carrying a concealed weapon. Story all over the news, his mug shot, the works.



This is a great kid. Never been in trouble, honor roll, athlete AND has an appointment to the Naval Academy.

It was a stupid thing to do. He should be punished. BUT. he never directly aimed at or struck any of the kids. One of the dad's was on the news saying he thought it was a crock and he would never have filed charges. His kids were laughing about it.

its just this one family that is pushing this.

I do not know how someone could sleep at night knowing they are ruining a kid's life over something like this. Felonies? He will lose his appointment over this. Do people not understand how very easily a kid can do something stupid?
when i think of the stupid stuff my brothers did and the stupid stuff my kids probably did but i don't know about, this just seems insane.

I know there are a lot of dads on here. What is your take?

First off, he shouldn't be pointing a paint gun at people when he ain't playing it.
Some of those kids may have been terrified.
Cops could have been called and possibly shot the dude with the gun.
All in all, I'd say charge him as it is, and let him cop to a coupla misdemeanors. That shit just ain't funny anymore, and EVERYONE knows not to pull that kind of crap anymore.
How's that for compassion? Of course, had he knocked an eyeball out with a paint slug, it wouldn't have mattered what punishment he got, because you can't replace someone's eye.

 

[GoshenGipper]

My point is when did calling the cops become the first resort? We had some 12 year olds walk around the neighborhood last summer stealing security signs, yard ornaments etc and then threw them down a sewer. A neighbor caught them redhanded. Called their parents and sent out a neighborhood email. Their parents made them write apology notes to 25 neighbors, hand deliver them with a promise of two hours of yard work for each home they hit. Now, he could have called the cops, had them charged with vandalism etc. I liked the way he handled it. 50 hours of "community service" was okay with me.

I've always found that creative punishment always seems to work better anyway. Even down to the small things. My brother-inlaw will make my nephews go run laps around a neighborhood church's parking lot, do push-ups, or go outside for walking practice if they won't listen to him if he tells them to stop running through the house or to quit rough housing. It's pretty funny to watch and it seems to work too.

 

[GoshenGipper]

It could have been worse, at least they didn't have fully automatic air soft guns.

 

[SouthernIrish]

I imagine it will get dropped to a couple of misdemeanors, which will blow his appointment but he is a smart kid and will go to school somewhere.

It was stupid. He will pay by losing a dream he has had for a long time. I personally think there were other ways he could have been punished.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Better a harsh lesson for him than a harsher lesson for the other kids. Plus, everyone around this story will know not to do something that stupid.