Sugar for the Kool-Aid....(why rational people can belive in 2008)

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Moostache

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Ok -

I am historically a naive Irish backer. I literally enter every season believing that ND should win 10 games and be in a minimum New Year's Day Bowl game. The streak of years without a MNC has not changed that yet. So, take my ramblings with the appropriate grain of salt...

Why will ND be a force next year when they were a farce this year?

Simple - recruiting.

Not that I believe the freshmen will be the panacea to cure all that ails the Irish either; no, I look at the recruiting prowess of this 2008 class and see something that I believe all Irish fans can take heart in....change. And not just change for change's sake either. On NSD last year ND was jilted by several high profile players...we all know who and when, but the names of who did not come are no longer important. The important thing was that on NSD last year Weis made a pledge that things would be different. That he and the staff would work themselves to death if necessary to make sure that '08 would not be '07 redux...

Well, we are not officially home quite yet, but the recruiting facts speak for themselves. Coming off THE worst season in ND history, Weis is poised to bring in one of the best ever classes by many 'experts' opinions. He vowed it would be different...and then despite what many weaker men (yes, I am pointing squarely at YOU Mr. Davie..) could have used as excuses for failure (bad season, tough academics, dirty recruiting by opponents), Weis is set do what many said could not be done. He is bringing in a consensus top-3 (and possibly #1) recruiting class.

The weather in South Bend did not change....
The academic requirements did not nose dive off a cliff.....
The co-ed's did not suddenly become blonder or more numerous or less virtuous...

No, what changed was the addition of Corwin Brown and a new dedication to doing things a certain way that pushed Weis and Co. over the top. Now obviously the job is only 80% done...a verbal pledge is non-binding (and given the way coaches treat their word these days I am only shocked MORE verbals are not reneged on), but the fact is that the 23 names currently committed to ND are a special group. They are the first, but certainly not the last, group to be pursued with a mutual commitment in hand from day one and they responded in astonishing fashion.

3-9.

Just look at THAT!

Notre Dame Football.

3-9.

Now look at the list of 22 (**editted - I mistakenly said 23 originally, though I am quite confident that ND will sign more than the current 22 commits on NSD...) players verbally committed to ND....staggering. The only thing more remarkable is that it is being done without even a hint, rumor or sour grapes statement implicating improper inducements to these players!! ND, and by extension Weis, is blazing a new trail in the recruiting world. NO ONE recruits like THIS when they are losing 75% of their games! NO ONE...

So why does this success mean 2008 will be a complete reversal of 2007? Simple really....because Charlie said so. I know, I know...he also said "Nasty" at one time too and we have not seen much 'nasty' yet. But Weis has said that starting on Monday (12/17/2007) that he was going to work to fix what went so terribly wrong this year. I believe him.

Not just because I so desperately want to believe either. No, I see that he has said things in the very recent past and then produced results commensurate with his statements. He vowed things would be different in recruiting and they are. He has made staff changes when he felt it was necessary and I believe in Corwin Brown as a part of the solution. And now he has said that he is going to fix things with this team in the future.

The recruits, many of whom had their pick of ANY university in the country if they wanted it, also believe him. Even during the recently deceased horror show of a football season in 2007, the underclassmen played with a passion and verve that showed THEY also believe him. If this many players, with so much at stake can continue to put their faith in Charlie Weis as the man to lead them to success and hopefully championships, they we as mere fans (or alumni or subway alumni) should be able to do the same for another year.

I think the results on the field in 2008 will vindicate this leap of faith.

To me, the results Weis has produced in recruiting after vowing to do so make the Kool-Aid the sigar-sweetened good kind instead of the Nutra-sweet or sugar-free crap many of us have been forced to woof down over the past decade +....
 
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solo

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OK moostache, I am your polar opposite. I am the ND pessimist. I haven't believed that ND would win 10+ games in any season since Holtz left.

What do I see for next season?

8-4

I don't believe that there are 4 teams on the schedule with more talent, but I am just not convined that Charlie can get the job done on the sideline. I predicted a 7-5 season for 2007 and am still in shock that we were so bad. We were worse in 2007 than the talent on hand. It just still feels like there is something wrong in South Bend.

EDIT: Not looking to turn this into a debate of Weis' credentials. If you happen to love Weis or believe he's "the one", that's as legite of a stance as any. It'sd just hard for me to see a eam that went 3-9 with mostly blowout losses turning into BCS material in one season.
 
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M

Moostache

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Great post moostache , but who is the 23rd commit from ?

Fixed that tidbit....I mistakenly put 23 instead of 23...though I am sure I am not alone in assuming the class is not exactly put to bed yet. ND should sign between 24 and 26 players on NSD...
 

KamaraPolice

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OK moostache, I am your polar opposite. I am the ND pessimist. I haven't believed that ND would win 10+ games in any season since Holtz left.

What do I see for next season?

8-4

I don't believe that there are 4 teams on the schedule with more talent, but I am just not convined that Charlie can get the job done on the sideline. I predicted a 7-5 season for 2007 and am still in shock that we were so bad. We were worse in 2007 than the talent on hand. It just still feels like there is something wrong in South Bend.

EDIT: Not looking to turn this into a debate of Weis' credentials. If you happen to love Weis or believe he's "the one", that's as legite of a stance as any. It'sd just hard for me to see a eam that went 3-9 with mostly blowout losses turning into BCS material in one season.


solo said so himself: NATIONAL CHAMPS 08!! GO IRISH!
 

notredomer23

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I just took a sip of some kool aid(seriously, it was cherry and very yummy lol) and I in the past have said 8-4 with a bowl win because i chalked up NC as a toss up, but now im say 9-3 with a bowl victory!!! Pass me some kool aid.
 

goldandblue

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Well at least one thing is for sure, after the end of next season, we will know what Weis is made of.
 

kjones

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The co-ed's did not suddenly become blonder or more numerous or less virtuous...

My favorite line by far, comic gold. Moostache, you are a genius! And you share my eternal optimism! Could this post have gotten any better? I submit that it could NOT!
 
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solo

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Well at least one thing is for sure, after the end of next season, we will know what Weis is made of.

What if he goes 10-2, losing to USC and Michigan. Then loses a bowl game for a 10-3 record.

Would that be good considering we were 3-9 in 2007?

Or would you consider that mediocre given the easy schedule and the losses to the only good teams on the schedule?
 

goldandblue

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If he goes 10-2 with a loss in a bowl game making it 10-3 he's had a great year. More to build upon for a N.C. run the next year. ( Although, I'm ready to get out of this bowl slump) Would you disagree with that?
 
M

Moostache

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What if he goes 10-2, losing to USC and Michigan. Then loses a bowl game for a 10-3 record.

Would that be good considering we were 3-9 in 2007?

Or would you consider that mediocre given the easy schedule and the losses to the only good teams on the schedule?

I would think that a +7 in wins would HAVE to be considered major progress....of course I would rather the losses be to anyone other than USC and scUM though. Especially scUM at home. They lose so much from this year's team and will be breaking in Dick Rod for his first real game....losing that one would hurt really bad. Losing to USC (again) would be a little less painful because the game is in L.A. (although I imagine that a 10-1 ND at probable 9-1 or 10-0 USC would be almost as big of a let down as what happened in 2006...and THAT was pretty painful too).

The margin of defeat would play a big role in my personal evaluation of Weis' progress at that point....47-21 and 44-24 losses (again) would leave me scratching my head and seeing dark linings in an otherwise silver cloud season (especially if the ND offense bounces back like I expect it will and there are plenty of 35-21 and 38-17 Irish wins in there as well)...but say a 21-20 loss to scUM or a 31-28 loss to USC would prabably have me sky high ehading into 2009 (regardless of bowl game outcome even!)...
 

piyachi

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I don't think we are going to have to go through a lot of shoot-out wins again. We have most of our starters back on D (granted it sucks to lose Brockington Laws and Zibby) and another year forward into the CB defense. If he can make the same sort of strides that he made last year then we should have a pretty dominating defense (as in top 25). Really we only play two teams that will likely have a potent offense (USuCk and MSU) and maybe two that could be decent on offense (UNC - a big if, and Pitt also a big if). Other teams like BC, Purdue, UM, and Navy really lose the firepower they had in 07. If SDSU or Syracuse put up more than 10 points against us, I will be disappointed.

Most of all, the defense should be better because the offense shouldn't put them in all the awful positions they did last year.
 

kmoose

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I don't think we are going to have to go through a lot of shoot-out wins again. We have most of our starters back on D (granted it sucks to lose Brockington Laws and Zibby) and another year forward into the CB defense. If he can make the same sort of strides that he made last year then we should have a pretty dominating defense (as in top 25).

I gotta disagree with this. This year's defense was no better than last year's. In 2006, the Irish D gave up 23.8 points per game. This year's D gave up 28.8. The one area where they did improve was that they gave up fewer big plays. But, instead of giving up big plays, they just let people drive down the field in chunks of 6 or 7 yards per play. I'd like to think they can improve that, but I have my doubts. They have NO "playmakers" on defense. They have some guys who made some big plays, but no one guy that seemed to make one every game. The Freshmen linebackers played well for freshmen, but they were certainly not "playmakers". I'm not trying to be a Doubting Moose here, but I think they are going to be an average, at best, defense next year.
 

goldandblue

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Hopefully the non "playmaker" freshman will explode this year into the players we know they will be.

I thought they made some impressive plays and looked great for freshman.
 

piyachi

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Well you could be right. I'd say that the scoring difference is attributable to horrific offensive play and bad special teams play. Think of how many of those scores came from fumbles, or allow returns to pick up another 20/30 yards. They got put in a bad position and came up with stops a lot of times.

Looking at the individual D units:
DLine - Laws to Kuntz - Downgrade but I think he will be a surprising force
- Kuntz to Williams - Moderate upgrade - Williams has better size and looked great
- Stephenson to Brown - Same

LB - Neal/Smith/Crum - Upgrade as they get bigger and better
- Brockington - T. Smith - Downgrade Brock was very solid

CB - Walls/Lambert (or replacement) - Upgrade, again just getting better

S - Bruton - Upgrade - Should be a beast in 08
- Zibby - ? - Probable downgrade, but who knows who gets it

If we can fix fundamental stuff like breaking out of blocks and making solid tackles I think this D could be quite good. Again, we have a major talent downgrade in opposition, so they should look better regardless.
 
M

Moostache

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I have to say that the defense DOES have playmakers on it....Brian Smith scored a defensive TD and was a disruptive force on the field, Kerry Neal was almost as good as Smith, and Darrin Walls MUST get the ball in his hands more. Then I see David Bruton and I think he should be a break-out performer in 2008 and could be a key to the entire season for ND.

I look at 2 of the times Darrin Walls had the ball in his hands on the season (the PSU INT return for a TD and the circus play at Stanford that got called back) and think to myself, "Hmmm....he looks like he might be VERY dangerous in the return game....", not to mention that he is progressing very nicely as a coverage CB too. Walls is already a playmaker in the secondary. Add in Bruton's potential to do big things at the FS position using his athletic ability

(side-bar - I HATE the former Michigan puke Dierdorf-ism of "athleticism".....one does NOT possess "athleticism", one is blessed with athletic ability. I would ask all true Domers and Domer fans to join with me to expose the acceptance of the dumbing down of America - via speech and contextual bastardization of the English language - as nothing more than an insidious Michigan plan to make their lack of academic standards seem less damning. They figure if they can use fabricated words - Dierdorf is the asshat who started using 'athleticism' as a word back when he was polluting the airwaves on Monday Night Football - from their alumni in media positions, that they can make the country less apt to notice that AA athletes at Michigan have a stunning tendancy to leave Ann Arbor without a degree and in most cases without an NFL job waiting either....whew...I HAD to vent that out, it was getting a bit toxic all binged up inside me!)

Its true that the D-Line lacks a bona fide playmaker, but Ian Williams racked up some pretty impressive numbers for a true freshman and if he improves (as expected) and Hunter/Newman can replicate the Williams contribution in 2008, then there's a pretty good chance that ND wil have a playmaker on the D-Line to go with those in the secondary and LB corps...

I believe that ND's Defensive is going to make huge strides in CB's second year. They will be helped significantly by an offense that won't be the proverbial deer-in-headlights again as well. There will be many special moments for the ND defense in 2008, of that we can all be sure!
 
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BDIrish4ever

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Well you could be right. I'd say that the scoring difference is attributable to horrific offensive play and bad special teams play. Think of how many of those scores came from fumbles, or allow returns to pick up another 20/30 yards. They got put in a bad position and came up with stops a lot of times.

Looking at the individual D units:
DLine - Laws to Kuntz - Downgrade but I think he will be a surprising force
- Kuntz to Williams - Moderate upgrade - Williams has better size and looked great
- Stephenson to Brown - Same

LB - Neal/Smith/Crum - Upgrade as they get bigger and better
- Brockington - T. Smith - Downgrade Brock was very solid

CB - Walls/Lambert (or replacement) - Upgrade, again just getting better

S - Bruton - Upgrade - Should be a beast in 08
- Zibby - ? - Probable downgrade, but who knows who gets it

If we can fix fundamental stuff like breaking out of blocks and making solid tackles I think this D could be quite good. Again, we have a major talent downgrade in opposition, so they should look better regardless.

I don't think we should forget about Ethan Johnson,Steve Filer, Omar Hunter(if he stays) or one of the other incoming freshman contributing in a big way!:gbanana:
 

mbooch

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God podtd, all. I personally believe that the D was badly served by the limp O that was played this year. Other teams' offensive coordinators could go wild, knowing that, even if they failed, or fumbled, the ND offense would never make them pay the price.

The big question is whether the D, and the O for that matter will get better, or just older.
 
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