Basbeall Offseason Hot Stove thread...

daytonirish

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ESPN Peter Gammons reporting that the Tigers will get 3B Miquel Cabrera and LHP Dontrelle Willis for LHP Andrew Miller, C Mike Rabelo, OF Cameron Maybin and 3 other minor leaguers. Looks like someone other than the Sox or Yankees can make a big trade.
 

ACamp1900

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opps I crapped my pants...

MAN!! that's a blockbuster if true...
 

ACamp1900

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Wow... it's real... great pick up by both sides there...

another thing that stuck out in the daily winter meeting report for me is this:

David Eckstien has said he would be willing to play second base next year for the 'right team'... IF the Angels trade Howie Kendirck for a big bat (Miguel T. or possibly Kahlil Greene) then I'm calling it RIGHT NOW!!!! The X factor is back with the Angels as our second baseman next year...
 

ACamp1900

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Okay, it's official I'm ready for baseball season... let the countdown begin!!!!
 

daytonirish

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They say all that needsto be done is the physicals and it should be finalized tonite. :bbanana::banana: :cbanana: :rbanana: :wbanana: :gbanana: :pbanana: :jump: :thewave: :allhail:
 

daytonirish

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In case you can't guess. I'm a Detroit fan in pro sports. And I kinda like this trade.
 

Newc

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That is an absolutely huge trade for the Tigers. That lineup is going to be insanely dangerous, especially when Cabrera is hitting in the five spot, and I think most teams would take Dontrelle as their #4 or #5 in the rotation.

With a manager like Leyland, both Cabrera and Willis will benefit greatly and probably only get better. The Tigers are going to be VERY dangerous next year.
 

Newc

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Acamp, what do you think your boys are gonna do now? Do they go after Inge or try to deal for Rolen or do you just sit tight and stay with Howie playing third?
 

daytonirish

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Newc, I know the Sox are the front runners for Santana, but they are saying that Min. is going to hold out for both Lester and Ellsbury and that they will proably get them both among others in the end. What's your take on this?
 

Sureal

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WHAT??? Ellsbury should be an untouchable. If Theo jacks that up then that will go down as one of the many idiotic Red Sox moves. YOU DON'T TRADE SOMEONE LIKE JACOBY...
 

Newc

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Pull the trigger. Pitching ALWAYS trumps position players. Jacoby showed some good talent last year, but here is the 64 thousand dollar question: If the Sox needed to, who do you think they could replace easier, a guy like Santana or a guy like Jacoby. The answer is a resounding Jacoby. Trust me, I love the kid just as much as those who say don't move him at all, but the trust of the matter is, when a guy like Santana comes up on the block, you make the moves to get him. Now, with that being said, I think the pieces of the trade is greatly changed. If the Twins want both Lester and Jacoby they can have them, but in turn they can only get Lowery or Masterson, not both.

To be honest, if I were Theo I would offer Lester, Ellsbury and Masterson right now, with the addition of Ryan if the Twins were willing to make the deal right away with the 72 hour negotiation period.

Coco is more than capable of roaming centerfield, and with Santana in the rotation, the rest of the lineup will be able to do more than enough damage offensively that Coco will not be as stressed out and will most likely perform better. Coco is heads and shoulders above Jacoby defensively and I don't think that he is so far behind him offensively that the inclusion of Jacoby is a deal breaker.
 

daytonirish

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Well I would be interested to see what spinner has to say. I'm still in shock that my Tigers went out and made this trade. Nobody even mentioned them, but the way things look now is that Illitch is starting to have the Tigers operate like he does the Red Wings. Dude has the money and he's showing that he's willing to spend it. How long are they in Nashville? Now that we have Inge left as trade bait, I'm wondering what else my Tigers have in store for me.
 

Newc

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Meetings run all this week. Most of the "Big" deals will get done during these meetings, but there are always tricklers through spring training, though it is rare since baseball really likes to take a break over the winter holidays. You really don't hear of anything major following the weeks after the winter meetings.

Inge leaves some interesting moves left to be made for sure. I can't see the Tigers holding on to him just as a utility player, he is way too good for that. I really won't be too surprised to see him go to the Angels or maybe even the Phillies. He is a very very good defensive third baseman and while he has struggled at the plate at times, he is still young and I think he has the ability to be a solid player all around. I really wanted him here in Boston if the Sox weren't able to lock down Lowell, becuase that corner in Fenway can be tricky if you don't have a good glove down there and I think we would be able to hit .280-.310 while playing pepper with the green monster. Therefore I really think the Phillies would be interested in making a move for him with that small park as well as the Angels, with Mike being a fundamentals type coach.

The Tigers are looking really really good this offseason and will be able to get even better with moving Inge. Thats the way a team should be run.
 

Sureal

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Goodness Newc.

The kid is one of my top three favorites Red Sox players. I can't stand Crisp. The kid bat is not dependable. Plus how old is Ellsbury? Get rid of Crisp. But if it has to be...

NOOOO!!! Ellsbury, Bucholz should be untouchables. I'm stubborn and I don't care.:geeza2:


I'll think about it. It pains me to think of any of those kids in a different uniform...
 

daytonirish

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So is ACamp an Angels fan.? Maybe my Tigers would be willing to talk about possible trade for Inge. But first I need to check out the roster and figure out if they have anyone of value to trade for. :wink:
 

Sureal

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The Sox need a backup catcher as well as a little more depth on the bench...

Inge may be a little too pricy for a bench player especially if we get Santana.
 

onenybrother

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The Tigers made a great pickupsn this off season. Hope my Met's can do the same.
 

Newc

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Well I would be interested to see what spinner has to say. I'm still in shock that my Tigers went out and made this trade. Nobody even mentioned them, but the way things look now is that Illitch is starting to have the Tigers operate like he does the Red Wings. Dude has the money and he's showing that he's willing to spend it. How long are they in Nashville? Now that we have Inge left as trade bait, I'm wondering what else my Tigers have in store for me.

Dayton, I am finally happy to see someone with this kind of sentiment that is not a Sox or Yanks fan. In the past I used to have a problem with the dollar disperity in the MLB. Sure I've always been a fan of the Sox, who have been among the biggest spenders in the game, and as of the past 5 years only second to the Yanks. However, over the past couple years I have really become interested in the business behind baseball (I can thank Billy Beene and Moneyball for that).

Just some things to think about:

This past year, each team earned 25 million solely from the medium of internet (MLBtv, mlb.com, ect.)
The low level teams (Tampa, Florida, Pitt) recieved 30 million from the luxury tax.
Revenue Sharing is expected to be 30 million per team this year.
Therefore, without even considering each individuals team revenue from tickets, tv contracts, merchandise, ect. The "low money" market teams have generated 85 million in revenue. Now I understand that all of that is not pure profit, I am sure it is quite expensive to run and upkeep a stadium, especially in Pittsburgh where they have a new one, however, when you look at team salaries it is rediculous that they spend so little.
Tampa Bay Rays - 27 Million
Pittsburgh Pirates - 29 Million
Florida Marlins - 33 Million

These are the teams that are considered weak, but to be honest its their own damn fault. Kevin Kennedy (Sox fans will remember him as the skipper who led us to that '95 East Championship) was talking about how the Marlins owners required that the GM keep the team salary at or below 30 million.

Therefore, if fans want to bitch and moan about how the Red Sox and Yankees pay a billion dollars for their teams, maybe you should stop being jealous of our success and our desire to win and rather blame your own team's owners for being greedy and running your team solely to line their pockets. And trust me, I am as capatalistic as anyone and have no problem at all with trying to make a profit, but fans need to make a decision, root for a team that spends the money in an attempt to win or root for a team that pays the bare minimum in order to turn a large profit.

Funny thing is, with all the money that the Sox and Yanks spend I am sure their owners don't go without....funny thing how winning just brings in more and more money. Maybe if the owners were willing to pay up and take just a small salary for a couple of years, they could establish a quality team which would in turn wake up their fan base, bring more people to games, sell more jerseys and caps and ultimately bring the profits way up.

Pro sports are becoming increasingly profitable these days and I don't understand how teams can't capitalize on that. We live in a material world and we are material girls....or boys.
 

onenybrother

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Dayton, I am finally happy to see someone with this kind of sentiment that is not a Sox or Yanks fan. In the past I used to have a problem with the dollar disperity in the MLB. Sure I've always been a fan of the Sox, who have been among the biggest spenders in the game, and as of the past 5 years only second to the Yanks. However, over the past couple years I have really become interested in the business behind baseball (I can thank Billy Beene and Moneyball for that).

Just some things to think about:

This past year, each team earned 25 million solely from the medium of internet (MLBtv, mlb.com, ect.)
The low level teams (Tampa, Florida, Pitt) recieved 30 million from the luxury tax.
Revenue Sharing is expected to be 30 million per team this year.
Therefore, without even considering each individuals team revenue from tickets, tv contracts, merchandise, ect. The "low money" market teams have generated 85 million in revenue. Now I understand that all of that is not pure profit, I am sure it is quite expensive to run and upkeep a stadium, especially in Pittsburgh where they have a new one, however, when you look at team salaries it is rediculous that they spend so little.
Tampa Bay Rays - 27 Million
Pittsburgh Pirates - 29 Million
Florida Marlins - 33 Million

These are the teams that are considered weak, but to be honest its their own damn fault. Kevin Kennedy (Sox fans will remember him as the skipper who led us to that '95 East Championship) was talking about how the Marlins owners required that the GM keep the team salary at or below 30 million.

Therefore, if fans want to bitch and moan about how the Red Sox and Yankees pay a billion dollars for their teams, maybe you should stop being jealous of our success and our desire to win and rather blame your own team's owners for being greedy and running your team solely to line their pockets. And trust me, I am as capatalistic as anyone and have no problem at all with trying to make a profit, but fans need to make a decision, root for a team that spends the money in an attempt to win or root for a team that pays the bare minimum in order to turn a large profit.

Funny thing is, with all the money that the Sox and Yanks spend I am sure their owners don't go without....funny thing how winning just brings in more and more money. Maybe if the owners were willing to pay up and take just a small salary for a couple of years, they could establish a quality team which would in turn wake up their fan base, bring more people to games, sell more jerseys and caps and ultimately bring the profits way up.

Pro sports are becoming increasingly profitable these days and I don't understand how teams can't capitalize on that. We live in a material world and we are material girls....or boys.


Great Post. Put my Mets as one of the team that willing to spend the dough. But the problem is spending it wisely. But your right the Marlins , Royals and Pirates of the world are a joke.
 

Newc

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Goodness Newc.

The kid is one of my top three favorites Red Sox players. I can't stand Crisp. The kid bat is not dependable. Plus how old is Ellsbury? Get rid of Crisp. But if it has to be...

NOOOO!!! Ellsbury, Bucholz should be untouchables. I'm stubborn and I don't care.:geeza2:


I'll think about it. It pains me to think of any of those kids in a different uniform...



I agree, I love Lester and think he is really gonna be a good pitcher one day. It will pain me to see him in another uni, but this is baseball and it happens and all we can hope is that the deal is worth it in the end.

Just think Pedro, I absolutely hated to see him leave and he wasn't even a homegrown.
 

Sureal

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We are starting to sound like them circa 1998.

I feel dirty...
 

daytonirish

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Totally agree with you Newc. And the thing that really bothers me is when thee owners come out and say if more people came out to the ballpark we would be able to spend more money. Well that's a bunch of crap. If they put a team on the field that is competitve and has a shot at the playoffs fans do come to the ballpark. Put a quality team on the field and the fans do reward you by showing up to tne games.
 

Newc

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Haha we will never be "them"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We don't make bogus deadlines public nor do we try to impose our will solely due to the fact that we are "them".

Theo is a very reputable guy to deal with who is praised for his integrity and class. "They" are regarded as jackasses who have already seemed to ruffle the feathers of many top GMs.
 

Newc

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Totally agree with you Newc. And the thing that really bothers me is when thee owners come out and say if more people came out to the ballpark we would be able to spend more money. Well that's a bunch of crap. If they put a team on the field that is competitve and has a shot at the playoffs fans do come to the ballpark. Put a quality team on the field and the fans do reward you by showing up to tne games.


Exactly, supply and demand. Supply a quality team and the demand for tickets will be high. Some of the oweners have began to sound like Ravens players that there is a conspiracy in favor of the big money teams.

I forget what the number was exaclty, but I think it was 6 Billion that MLB generated last year. 6 Billion!?!?!? And you can't field 30 quality ball clubs?? Funny how this isn't the case in the NFL where there is a salary cap that forces the smaller market teams to pay for talent because the big teams can't own it all. Basically what it means is, if the owners really wanted top players on their teams they could definitely afford them. Hey, some guys are in the game just to make a buck rather than for the passion of the game and you know what, thats just fine, but don't pretend that you are a victim.
 

daytonirish

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Sureal, are you suggesting a Inge for Lester trade? I think my Tigers would we willing. :makeadeal
 

SoCalDomer

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alright. the title of this thread needs to be changed. I read "hot stove" and thought for sure you had pancakes in here.
 

Newc

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alright. the title of this thread needs to be changed. I read "hot stove" and thought for sure you had pancakes in here.

Thats this saturday at the IE Pancake Social...we are just heating the stove up for now.
 

Newc

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Haha...actually I believe he is out harvesting the "fruit" of another plant of his.
 
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