Help me define "in-season improvement"...

[Moostache]

In September, Notre Dame did not win a single game, was manhandled in each contest and looked pretty downright pathetic....

In October, Notre Dame did win one (1) game and while still managing to look pathetic against USC, did manage to look slightly less "keystone-kops-esque" on the month....

In November, Notre Dame finally managed an honest to god winning streak for the first time in a calender year - albeit against the two worst teams in D1 football...

I realize that the last 4 opponents and the November schedule SHOULD have resulted in 4 relatively easy ND wins based on talent levels alone - but unfortunately we do not live in or play games in a "on-paper vacuum" and the team that took the field against Navy was not exactly brimming with confidence nor seething with rage after being crushed by USC. The cummulative and "shell-shock" effect of the September and October drubbings seemed to have ND just waiting and actually expecting thigns to go wrong. Winning the last 2 was expected as well, but to the time of the second Duke turnover I did not SEE an ND team that truly believed they could win.

Sometimes, learning to win again after being down and losing (especially at a place totally unaccustomed to losing to the tune of 3-9 seasons) is ALMOST as important as coaching, talent and schedules combined....This season's ND team had holes...big, gaping, canyon sized holes...in experience and in talent and in physical bodies available on scholarship. In the end, they did not do as many had feared (and some in the media had whispered) - they did NOT quit on Weis and themselves. Following the Duke turnovers at the end of the second quarter I saw something "click" for ND and despite the turnovers and inconsistent play against Stanford, I saw a team that fought through it and found a win in an ugly, ugly game that really meant nothing. It would have been so easy for the players to say "the hell with this...these refs are stealing the game from us and we are getting screwed here". It would have been so easy to pack it in and end the season with a whimper instead of a goal line stand (helped by Stanford's inability to catch....but a stand none-the-less!

First Third - 0-4
Second Third - 1-3
Final Third - 2-2

I think 90% of the Irish fans in the nation would take 3-1 in the first 4 games of next year...especially if it meant continuing the pattern to go 4-0 over the next 2 sets of 4 games as well!!! I know I would be "doing cartwheels" if ND starts next season at 7-1!!!


So if that's not progress (even halting, baby-stepping progress), then my question is what would have been progress in the eyes of other Irish faithful?

Another way to couch this question would be "would your feelings about this season been much different if the 2-point plays against nabvy were reversed?" How would you measure ND's "progress" if we had beat Navy 46-44 in 3OTs instead of losing 46-44 in 3 OTs? Would a 4-8 mark have been any more palatable than 3-9?

 

[WeisWeisBaby]

No, regardless of a victory over NAVY this season would still be the same..... It would have felt nicer to win, but we didn't. Next year is the year we start new streaks of kicking some butt.

 

[goldandblue]

next 43 year streak starts in 08!

 

[johnnd05]

Nice post, Moostache.

I think it's clear that there was a good deal of /individual/ improvement this year: Brian Smith, Armando Allen, Robert Hughes, Duval Kamara, and Jimmy Clausen are the names that jump out at me in this category.

It's also clear that the team was a lot more successful once they got past UM: they were close at halftime against MSU, close in the fourth quarter against Purdue, BC, Navy, and Air Force, and beat UCLA, Duke, and Stanford.

But thing that bugs me is that so many of the problems that we saw at the start of the season were there at the end: poor play by the offensive line, dropped passes, fumbles and interceptions, horrible tackling, etc. Moreover, the team (in particular the offense) often seemed not to be "all there" mentally: they totally fell apart after the long kick return against MSU, looked scared sh-tless right out of the gate against USC, completely lost it after those early fumbles against Air Force, and looked lethargic for long stretches against Duke and Stanford.

So yeah, there was some progress. But the fact is that the physical advantages were so heavily in favor of ND in those last four games that they should have BLOWN OUT their opponents. Coming off a bye week, THAT was the sort of progress we were looking for. Instead, the way they played was frighteningly similar in many ways to week one; it's just that their opponents weren't good enough, on defense in particular, to take full advantage.

 

[solo]

Progress is not always marked by the W-L record. I like to look at the quality of play on the field. The wins and losses will take care of themselves if the mistakes are eliminated and problem areas fixed. So look at the problem areas:

1. OL...Pretty much just as bad week 12 as week 1. No progress

2. QB...Made more throws downfield late in the season. Other than that, still took sacks, still threw into coverage, still made tons of errors. Marginal progress

3. WR...Lots of drops and poor separation week 1-12. No progress

4. Special Teams...Couldn't make FG's week 1-12. Punting was average. Retuns game and coverage game were nothing special. No progress

5. Defense...I would say the defense improved this year from last and looked better in our last 2 games than they did early in the season. So they did make some progress.

Overall, I still saw pretty much the awful football team in week 12 that I saw week 1. The competition just got worse. So I can't say that we made meaningful progress.

 

[johnnd05]

2. QB...Made more throws downfield late in the season. Other than that, still took sacks, still threw into coverage, still made tons of errors. Marginal progress

3. WR...Lots of drops and poor separation week 1-12. No progress

Really?? You think Clausen's progress was only "marginal", and that the wideouts - Kamara in particular - made NO progress? These guys can only come so far in twelve weeks, but in both of those cases I'd say they made SIGNIFICANT strides ...

 

[bbrennan]

The progress during the season I think can be summed up by playing the Freshman. If you look at the plays that were made in the Duke and Stanford game, nearly all of them (except for Laws who was the definition of consistency all year) were made by Freshman. You had JC handing off to Hughes or throwing to Kamara. You had Neal or B. Smith making big plays on the edges. Wenger and Stewart, who are akin to what most schools call redshirt Freshman, showed some talent on the O-line. The progress was that these guys got some playing time.

The progress that I think we all would have liked to see was inconsistent. The O-line play was spotty; screen passes getting blown up one play then turned into 30 yard gains on the one to Jabbie. The WR's dropped big passes, then turned around and made exceptional catches (Grimes and Kamara versus Stanford). JC cuts down on his interceptions, but continues to take 10 yard losses by running out of bounds when he could chuck it 10 rows into the stands.

The other progress that I would have enjoyed seeing was from the coaches finding that "identity" we heard so much about all year. I don't think the team ever settled on anything. With a young team a focus on fundamentals - tackling, holding onto the ball, blocking, catching, etc - would have been nice. One thing we should give a lot of credit to the coaches is that the team did persevere through a very difficult season. They genuinely seemed to enjoy the wins as a team. The seniors went out with a couple wins on the backs of underclassmen and that is a good thing to see - respect for teammates and pride in the university. These young guys had likely never experienced this kind of scrutiny and these are lessons they will not soon forget.

 

[Moostache]

Really?? You think Clausen's progress was only "marginal", and that the wideouts - Kamara in particular - made NO progress? These guys can only come so far in twelve weeks, but in both of those cases I'd say they made SIGNIFICANT strides ...

I agree that on an individual level Clausen made more than marginal improvement. In fact, I would say that minus the inexplicable desire to hold the ball for 10-yard losses, instead of hitting the water boy or mascot or even Charlie himself with the ball, Clausen showed rather stark improvement, especially in terms of arm strength and command of the offense. I would also stipulate that Clausen and Wenger showed more chemistry in 2 starts than Clausen and Sullivan had in 6. Also, while not a true measure of individual success...the team's record with Clausen as the starting QB was 3-6, with Sharpley or Jones as a starter the team was winless...hwhateve


Add in the fact that Sharpley has done just enough to make me think he could be a capable back-up and fill in if Clausen were to go down (or at least be an adequate stop-gap to prevent Crist from getting thrown to the lions like the kids at UCLA or Oregon were).
I think identifying a clear-cut starter and clear-cut back-up for spring 2008 and fall 2008 camps is more than marginal improvement.

QB is not one of my biggest question marks in the 2007-2008 off-season any more; I am sold that Clausen at worst will be a triggerman capable of directing Charlie's offense and protectign the football in 2008 and at best will be drawing comparisons to Brady Quinn circa junior year Quinn by the end of 2008....just in time to put that starting games in California undefeated streak on the line I hope....

WR - even including Kamara - did not show as much improvement in my eyes. Kamara showed he has a bright future...but then again the player he draws the most comparisons to is Mo Stovall and prior to his senior breakout year Stovall was always one of the most mystifying ND players in the last 20 years! Kamara-Stovall comparisons are pretty spot on in my eyes, but I don't know if Duval can hold down a roster spot for 3 more years to have that one break-out season.

Grimes showed ability to make the spectactular catch (robbed of a definite highlight reel, POYT type grab at Stanford), but too often this year balls that hit him between the 1's were hitting the deck. Parris disappeared after Purdue, as did Tate. West was largely an after-thought all year. Jackson, Hord and others could not even get on the field ahead of clearly non-productive players ahead of them on the depth charts.

I think "marginal" improvement for the WRs as a whole is fair...

 

[johnnd05]

Moostache, I'd agree that the improvement of the WRs /as a whole/ was "marginal", but I disagree with you about Kamara. He went from a guy who was second or third option to the clear #1 receiver - and that's not just because the other guys were disappointing. I think he'll be a VERY good one ...

 

[Moostache]

Moostache, I'd agree that the improvement of the WRs /as a whole/ was "marginal", but I disagree with you about Kamara. He went from a guy who was second or third option to the clear #1 receiver - and that's not just because the other guys were disappointing. I think he'll be a VERY good one ...

I hope that you are right and I am wrong on Kamara, John....

I would love to see him develop into a Mike Williams - Dwayne Jarrett type of receiver for ND....that guy with decent speed (really GOOD college speed, maybe marginal NFL speed) but a size mismatch and a redzone nightmare for opposing defenses...

Hell, and maybe I am being more than a little unfair to Duval...he DID set the freshman record for TD catches - one that I sincerely hope falls very soon....like in about 12 months from now....

 

[SoCalDomer]

I hope that you are right and I am wrong on Kamara, John....

I would love to see him develop into a Mike Williams - Dwayne Jarrett type of receiver for ND...

I know what you mean, but you picked two very bad examples. Both of those guys had/have very terrible work ethic. The only reason Williams did well because of who got him the ball and the running threat in the backfield. Williams' lack of work ethic has shown in him being fired from team after team in the NFL. I don't think Jarret is going to do much better unless he changes his work ethic.

 

[Moostache]

I know what you mean, but you picked two very bad examples. Both of those guys had/have very terrible work ethic. The only reason Williams did well because of who got him the ball and the running threat in the backfield. Williams' lack of work ethic has shown in him being fired from team after team in the NFL. I don't think Jarret is going to do much better unless he changes his work ethic.

Point conceded....but, as long as Kamara produces the kind of college numbers that Williams and Jarrett did (or even senior year Stovall for that matter) - and preferrably against USC to boot - I wouldn't care if he was the laziest player on the team!

Thankfully though, Duval does not seem to come with the stigma or rumors of poor work ethic and questionable character choices. I just hope he develops into one of the surprises of the year in 2008, because I doubt many teams will be fearing him as the centerpiece of the Irish passing attack to start the year.

 

[SoCalDomer]

Help me define "in-season improvement"

"Shoot, you mean like when a girl dawg's "in season" and every other boy dawg is a yelp'n and a howl'n all night long?"

 

[solo]

I'll have to take your word on individual player imporvement. I didn't watch any one particulatr player enough (other than QB) to know how much they improived. I simplyh saw the same mistakes made week in and week out by various players: dropped passes, missed tackles, turnovers, penalties, you name it. We looked like the bad news bears all year.

So individuals may have improved. But collectuively as a team I didn't see it.