Rivals Team Rankings

[GoshenGipper]

It's just a matter of time untill Nebraska's whole class falls apart. Miami, and UCLA also have several soft verbal each.

 

[piyachi]

I could see that with Nebraska having their dysfunctional melt-down and UCLA with Dorrell doing a Ty imitation, but Miami? I thought people down there were optimistic about them rebuilding with their new coach....

 

[GoshenGipper]

I could see that with Nebraska having their dysfunctional melt-down and UCLA with Dorrell doing a Ty imitation, but Miami? I thought people down there were optimistic about them rebuilding with their new coach....

Florida and USC seem to be doing the poaching here, so when you look at the other teams involved it's not a very big stretch.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

I don't agree with the ratings from Rivals. Two 5 stars?? Weak.

 

[SoCalDomer]

I don't agree with the ratings from Rivals. Two 5 stars?? Weak.

Scout has us with 4 5-stars. I don't even know what ESPN ratings are, but the difference between a low 5-star on one site versus a high 4-star on another has to be subjective rather than on real differences. This is why I say focus on 1) whether we get the top guys we want, 2) whether those players were sought after by other teams.

 

[Epitome]

Scout has us with 4 5-stars. I don't even know what ESPN ratings are, but the difference between a low 5-star on one site versus a high 4-star on another has to be subjective rather than on real differences. This is why I say focus on 1) whether we get the top guys we want, 2) whether those players were sought after by other teams.

You don't want to know. They have some off the wall rankings

 

[SoCalDomer]

Let me guess, ESPN's formula works like this: Top 15 players are USC recruits, 15-100 are SEC recruits. Top 2000-2001 recruits are ND's. Am I close?

 

[greenandblue]

everything there is right but you forgot to include that since they now have their own all star game everyone in that is a top 100 player. also anyone with a USC offer is rated above and 80

 

[Doomsday Device]

Let me guess, ESPN's formula works like this: Top 15 players are USC recruits, 15-100 are SEC recruits. Top 2000-2001 recruits are ND's. Am I close?

I believe ESPN had ND's recruits rated the highest of all the different organizations last year. Any commit to a big-time school gets a good rating from them, and Notre Dame benefits as much, if not a little more, than any other school.

 

[Doomsday Device]

Since Notre Dame is guaranteed to finish with a losiing record now, I looked back through the Rivals team rankings they have listed since 2002 to see if any other teams finished in the top 10 in recruiting with non-winning records. I only found 4 and 3 of them occurred within one strange year.

2005 - Nebraska (5-6) 5th Overall
2003 - Mississippi State (3-9) 9th Overall
2003 - South Carolina (5-7) 8th Overall
2003 - Texas A&M (6-6) 10th Overall

I also wanted to see the records of the previous teams to finish with the best recruiting class.

2002 - Texas (11-1)
2003 - LSU (8-5)
2004 - USC (12-1)
2005 - USC (13-0)
2006 - USC (12-1)
2007 - Florida (12-1)

Other than LSU, all these teams were ranked in the top 5 at the end of the year and 3 of them won at least a share of the national championship. If there were rankings to be found prior to 2002, I doubt there would be much of a change in the records of the top dogs. Adding a 5-7 (or worse) Notre Dame to the list would be strange and if Weis actually manages to pull it off, this would probably have to be one of the best recruiting jobs by a coaching staff ever.

 

[Epitome]

Georgia picked up 2 more recruits today, one of them being a 4* and the other a 3*. More than likely they will again jump us into the #1 spot when the next update comes out.

 

[Easton Pa ND Fan]

Thank you for your effort...

Thank you for your effort...

There is only 30 pts between ND and Georgia. Nothing
to lose sleep over...Tom

<FONT FACE="Verdana" SIZE="4"><FONT COLOR="#0080C0">G</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0080C0">O</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0080C0"> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#0080C0">I</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0080C0">R</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0080C0">I</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0080C0">S</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0080C0">H</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0080C0"> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#FFCC99"> </FONT><FONT COLOR="#FFCC99">!</FONT><FONT COLOR="#FFCC99">!</FONT></FONT>

 

[goldandblue]

It doesn't matter if we have the number one class, it would be nice to brag about it but as long as we get the players that best fit this program, I'm happy.

 

[GoIrish41]

From what I see, ND has better recruits at QB, TE, LB, RB, DE, OL, and DT. I'd call it about even at DB. They topped us at WR, primarily because of A.J. Green.They have only two OL recruits, and they are both 3-star prospects. I don't care who Rivals says has the No. 1 class. Look at a comparrision and tell me which recruits you'd rather have in south bend.

GA Recruits with rival grades

A.J. Green WR 6-4 184 4.5 6.1
Richard Samuel ATH 6-0 197 4.47 6.1
DeAngelo Tyson DT 6-2 276 5.1 6.1
Dontavius Jackson RB 5-11 195 4.5 6.0
Dwayne Allen TE 6-4 243 - 5.9
Toby Jackson DE 6-4 244 5.05 5.9
Tavarres King WR 6-1 169 4.41 5.9
Cornelius Washington DE 6-4 220 4.5 5.9
Xavier Avery ATH 5-11 185 4.4 5.8
Brandon Boykin DB 5-10 162 4.45 5.8
Marcus Dowtin ATH 6-2 215 4.4 5.8
Makiri Pugh DB 6-0 194 4.42 5.8
Christian Robinson LB 6-2 204 4.5 5.8
Nick Williams DB 6-3 206 4.5 5.8
Jeremy Longo DE 6-4 212 4.61 5.7
Bacarri Rambo ATH 6-1 195 4.5 5.7
Carlton Thomas RB 5-7 159 4.6 5.7
Sanders Commings ATH 6-1 195 4.5 5.6
Jonathan Owens OL 6-5 295 - 5.6
Ben Jones OL 6-2 306 - 5.5
Bryce Ros TE 6-4 233 4.7 5.5
Blair Walsh K 5-10 163 - 5.5
Akeem Hebron LB 6-1 220 - -

ND Recruits
Dayne Crist QB 6-5 228 4.66 6.1
Kyle Rudolph TE 6-6 229 4.6 6.1
Steven Filer LB 6-3 220 6.0
Jonas Gray RB 5-10 213 4.44 6.0
Ethan Johnson DE 6-4 266 4.8 6.0
Robert Blanton DB 6-1 177 4.5 5.9
Lane Clelland OL 6-5 270 5.9
Sean Cwynar DT 6-4 284 5.9
Darius Fleming LB 6-3 230 5.9
Michael Floyd WR 6-3 195 4.55 5.9
Omar Hunter DT 6-1 295 4.7 5.9
Jamoris Slaughter DB 6-1 185 4.5 5.9
Braxston Cave OL 6-4 295 5.09 5.8
Joseph Fauria OL 6-8 250 4.75 5.8
John Goodman WR 6-4 192 4.5 5.8
Dan McCarthy DB 6-2 190 4.5 5.8
Anthony McDonald LB 6-3 220 4.5 5.8
Mike Golic OL 6-5 260 5.1 5.7
David Posluszny LB 6-0 206 4.62 5.7
Hafis Williams DT 6-3 285 5.7
Br. Newman DT 6-1 300 5.09 5.6

 

[JeremyND07]

There is still a long way to go!!! We will have decommits just like everyone else and we will pick-up players like everyone else! #1 would be great but as long as we keep most of the players we have and stay in the top 5 it was a good recruiting year! Febuary cannot get here soon enough IMO!!!

 

[SoCalDomer]

One of the things that I don't think any of the major recruiting reporting services take into account is whether the recruits fill in the gaps for a particular team. In the NFL, teams are usually graded by the sports reporters based on not only who they drafted, but whether they filled the right needs with the position people they drafted.

For example: let's say UnivserityA recruits 15 4-stars and is rated #6. The make-up of the class is 4-WRs, two RBs, two QBs, two OL, two kickers, one DL, one LB and one Ath.

Despite having the #6 class overall and picking up all 4-star recruits, they better hope some of those recruits can play other positions or they are so stocked up at all the other offensive and defensive positions that they didn't need to get more recuits.

It seems that Weis is not only thinking about quliaty players but has a formula(appears to be something like TEs 2-1-2-1; OL 4-2-4-2) for figuring out how many at any given position are needed to make sure depth at all positions.

Again, #1 class or not, they seem to be filling in the right positions, and happen to be getting top quality players.

 

[Doomsday Device]

Rivals updated their rankings. Notre Dame's still #1.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

One of the things that I don't think any of the major recruiting reporting services take into account is whether the recruits fill in the gaps for a particular team. In the NFL, teams are usually graded by the sports reporters based on not only who they drafted, but whether they filled the right needs with the position people they drafted.

They actually do include that into the team rankings on these sites. Thats why the whole point system for ranking teams is so unstructured. You get different amounts of points for the level of the player plus the need the team has for depth there. Sites usually provide a link to an explanation of how they determine point values for each commit. i'm sure someone with more time could provide a link if you dont have time yourself.

 

[SoCalDomer]

They actually do include that into the team rankings on these sites. Thats why the whole point system for ranking teams is so unstructured. You get different amounts of points for the level of the player plus the need the team has for depth there. Sites usually provide a link to an explanation of how they determine point values for each commit. i'm sure someone with more time could provide a link if you dont have time yourself.

I stand corrected:

ABOUT OUR TEAM RANKINGS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scout.com team football recruiting rankings are based on the Talent, Need and Balance of players committed to that school. We consider only players who have made a Verbal or Soft Verbal commitment to that school. We include high school, prep school and junior college players in our analysis.

Talent - This category reflects the quality of players committed to that school. Teams must recruit difference-makers throughout their class to obtain a high ranking.
Need - This is analysis of whether the team needs are being met at each position. This value is capped per position type (i.e., a team does not receive extra credit for overloading at a position).
Balance - Teams must be represented at every position by players of each body type. Securing balance in every recruiting class is a necessity due to the injuries and attrition that are part of college football.

I couldn't find similar language from Rivals, but I doubt they would be all that different.

Then what I don't understand is how our rankings could have been as high as they were in 2003, 2004, and 2005. (I'm not trying to re-hash our recruiting woes) Oh well, go Irish.

 

[jonesman]

Guys,
I could care less where our final ranking comes in if we keep the kids we have commited and add another WR and a couple OL commits. We will have filled every need with top quality talent. The cupboard will be full of talent.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Don't most of the SEC teams offer more players than they have available knowing some won't qualify? Is there any limit to the number they're permitted to offer?

 

[GoshenGipper]

Don't most of the SEC teams offer more players than they have available knowing some won't qualify? Is there any limit to the number they're permitted to offer?

Yes, and no.

A school can offer as many as they want, but they can only have 85 kids on scholarship at any one time, and only take 25 in any one class unless they have EEs. Then they can apply the EEs to the year before as long as that class had less than 25. For example ND could take 26 this year if they wanted to. They would just have to apply Cwynar to last years class, but they still have to keep in mind the 85 limit.

 

[johnnd05]

Yes, and no.

A school can offer as many as they want, but they can only have 85 kids on scholarship at any one time, and only take 25 in any one class unless they have EEs. Then they can apply the EEs to the year before as long as that class had less than 25. For example ND could take 26 this year if they wanted to. They would just have to apply Cwynar to last years class, but they still have to keep in mind the 85 limit.

Right - but do you could as "taking" a player if he signs but is unable to qualify? I.e., could you have more than 25 non-EE players fax LOIs on NSD so long as enough of them failed to qualify? I take it the answer is "no" ...

 

[GoshenGipper]

I'm not sure, I don't know when the NCAA clearing house deems them eligible for school.

 

[SoCalDomer]

Last year SoCarolina had 31 recruits, Tennesee had 32, Auburn 30, Oregon 29 and WV 28. I don't know if all of those schools had enough early enrolees to get them below 25 for 2007, so some may not have actually made it despite signing a LOI. We know that 2 of SoCarolina's did not gain admittance to the school.

 

[GoshenGipper]

Last year SoCarolina had 31 recruits, Tennesee had 32, Auburn 30, Oregon 29 and WV 28. I don't know if all of those schools had enough early enrolees to get them below 25 for 2007, so some may not have actually made it despite signing a LOI. We know that 2 of SoCarolina's did not gain admittance to the school.

Almost a third of Auburn's 30 didn't get it. So much so that ND jumpd them in the ranking from 8 to 7.

 

[johnnd05]

Last year SoCarolina had 31 recruits, Tennesee had 32, Auburn 30, Oregon 29 and WV 28. I don't know if all of those schools had enough early enrolees to get them below 25 for 2007, so some may not have actually made it despite signing a LOI. We know that 2 of SoCarolina's did not gain admittance to the school.

If schools are really accepting that many LOIs with any regularity, then they're probably doing just what I assumed they weren't allowed to do: namely, accepting commitments from more players than they're allowed to offer scholarships to, under the assumption that enough of them will fail to qualify. It seems to me that the NCAA should make that illegal: not only can your /final class size/ not put you over 25 for the year / 85 total with early enrollees, but the same should hold for the number of letters of intent you accept on NSD. Otherwise that just seems dishonest, and unfair to other schools as well as the kids themselves. I'm really surprised that no one has put a stop to this.

 

[GoshenGipper]

I know in some cases when they have too many they'll change their mind at the last min and ask a kid to Grey Shirt, or come as a perfered walk-on. Then that'll take care of the "lesser" kids that they have commited because they'll either still get to keep them without using a scholarship for them right away, or the kids will find another small school to go to.

 

[johnnd05]

I know in some cases when they have too many they'll change their mind at the last min and ask a kid to Grey Shirt, or come as a perfered walk-on. Then that'll take care of the "lesser" kids that they have commited because they'll either still get to keep them without using a scholarship for them right away, or the kids will find another small school to go to.

Yuck. I mean, offering a kid a scholarship but telling him he'll have to wait to commit until you hear back from other guys - that's one thing. I don't like it, but I'm not sure what can be done about it. But offering a kid a scholarship and ACCEPTING HIS COMMITMENT ON NSD, only to tell him that there's not going to be space for him after all, seems totally out of line. Like I said, I'm shocked that the NCAA hasn't come down on these sorts of practices.

 

[JeremyND07]

Yuck. I mean, offering a kid a scholarship but telling him he'll have to wait to commit until you hear back from other guys - that's one thing. I don't like it, but I'm not sure what can be done about it. But offering a kid a scholarship and ACCEPTING HIS COMMITMENT ON NSD, only to tell him that there's not going to be space for him after all, seems totally out of line. Like I said, I'm shocked that the NCAA hasn't come down on these sorts of practices.

The NCAA is a joke...see the bush scandal!

How many total can we take this year? Do we have any room for early enrollies that can count towards last year? thanks!