Comparison between Clausen and Quinn

A

AZic11

Guest
Ok, well I will have to admit that I am no ND lifer. I had been raised a Purdue football fan. I only picked up cheering for them this season after deciding to come to school here.

What I am wondering is if there are any similarities between Quinn's freshman season and Clausen's. Did he make as slow of decisions? Was the offensive line as bad? How much progress was there from Brady by the end of the year?

If there are some similarities, then I have no reason not to hold out hope. I want to win a National Championship while I am here. Just looking for something to look forward to.
 

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
There was a post up at ND Nation after six games or so and Clausen's comp. % numbers were better (of course), his sack totals were WAY higher, and he had fewer interceptions (I think), but he had fewer yards and yards per comp. and fewer TD's. (I'm working from memory, so correct me if I'm wrong.) It would be interesting, though, to see what percentage of Brady's yards and TD's came from heaving the ball downfield to Shelton.

But I don't see what point this sort of comparison serves, since they were playing in rather different situations. All I know is that Clausen needs to hit the weight room and bulk the hell up.
 

NDOM

Banned
Messages
5,970
Reaction score
479
All this hype that surround Jimmy Clausen reminds me of when Ron Powlus was being recruited and ended up basically not living up to the hype. I say Jimmy Clausen gets beat out by Dayne Crist next year and Jimmy Clausen transfers just like Jones and Frazer.
 

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
All this hype that surround Jimmy Clausen reminds me of when Ron Powlus was being recruited and ended up basically not living up to the hype. I say Jimmy Clausen gets beat out by Dayne Crist next year and Jimmy Clausen transfers just like Jones and Frazer.

Come on NDOM, he's a true freshman, he's coming off elbow surgery, and he's playing behind the worst offensive line I've ever seen. Give the kid a chance.
 

NDOM

Banned
Messages
5,970
Reaction score
479
Come on NDOM, he's a true freshman, he's coming off elbow surgery, and he's playing behind the worst offensive line I've ever seen. Give the kid a chance.

I'm just being a douche bag Johnnd05. Dont mind me. Just a disgruntled ND fan who's pissed at the world.:)
 

Epitome

Delany's Chamber Maid
Messages
6,371
Reaction score
208
NDOM it takes a real man to call him self a douche bag. Your OK in my book. I do understand your frustration but believe me Clausen is the real deal. I have followed him from his sophomore year in HS. He just needs to be given the opportunity to throw it down field.
 

NDOM

Banned
Messages
5,970
Reaction score
479
NDOM it takes a real man to call him self a douche bag. Your OK in my book. I do understand your frustration but believe me Clausen is the real deal. I have followed him from his sophomore year in HS. He just needs to be given the opportunity to throw it down field.

Thanks man. I appreciate that. I have noticed that when Clausen has time to throw he shows signs of brilliance. I dont know why he just doesnt audible every call at this point and throw it down field more. Of course that a bit hard to do when you have an enemic offensive line that has more holes than swiss cheese. I dont know if this can get any worse, I'm sick to my stomach. UGH!
 

roto-stud

italian stallion
Messages
141
Reaction score
10
Powlus broke all sorts of ND passing records.....Quinn broke his records...it was not Powlus fault he was over hyped...to soon to tell on Clausen..next year we will find out if he is the real deal..Tebow of florida is having his breakout year as a sophomore...
 

jboxer562

New member
Messages
476
Reaction score
19
i am sorry everyone, but i would be lieing if i said i saw similarities between Quinn and Clausen
 

GoshenGipper

Rest In Peace
Messages
7,946
Reaction score
394
Powlus broke all sorts of ND passing records

Lou also let him throw a lot more.


As far as the Clausen, Quinn comparisons go, some of you newer fans, or high school aged fans probably don't remember how inconsistant Quinn was his first cople of years. Yes he showed flashes of greatness, but he was also very inconsistant and held onto the ball way too long too which resulted in a lot of sacks and knock downs. He really didn't take off untill his Jr. year when CW got there. That's also pretty usual for most QB's it often doesn't really start to click untill they're an upper classman. Now somtimes you see younger guys playing, somtimes it's because of lack of quality or depth, and somtimes it's because they're special players. But what you have to remember is when they do play they're hardly ever required to carry the team. Those guys often have a least a somewhat experienced OL, WRs/TEs, and RBs. ND has an experienced TE and FB, that's about it. Give it time, USC has quite a few great playmakers on their defense. I would think much of yesterday's regressions had somthing to do with that.
 

Irishtat

New member
Messages
313
Reaction score
10
NDOM it takes a real man to call him self a douche bag. Your OK in my book. I do understand your frustration but believe me Clausen is the real deal. I have followed him from his sophomore year in HS. He just needs to be given the opportunity to throw it down field.

Quote me....best post I've read all day :rock:
 

Irishtat

New member
Messages
313
Reaction score
10
Lou also let him throw a lot more.


As far as the Clausen, Quinn comparisons go, some of you newer fans, or high school aged fans probably don't remember how inconsistant Quinn was his first cople of years. Yes he showed flashes of greatness, but he was also very inconsistant and held onto the ball way too long too which resulted in a lot of sacks and knock downs. He really didn't take off untill his Jr. year when CW got there. That's also pretty usual for most QB's it often doesn't really start to click untill they're an upper classman. Now somtimes you see younger guys playing, somtimes it's because of lack of quality or depth, and somtimes it's because they're special players. But what you have to remember is when they do play they're hardly ever required to carry the team. Those guys often have a least a somewhat experienced OL, WRs/TEs, and RBs. ND has an experienced TE and FB, that's about it. Give it time, USC has quite a few great playmakers on their defense. I would think much of yesterday's regressions had somthing to do with that.

Excellent post! Very true...rarely are the green horns called on to save/carry the team in the sport of football...maybe basketball, but not football...the best thing for this team right now is the bye week and mental-health vacation before regrouping and looking at attainable wins...everyone knows the team looks God awful, but the schedule kicked their ass just as much as the inexperience (I'd say the only expereince on the O is TE & C though), lack of identity, piss-poor upperclasses etc etc. Fans were hoping for more w/ Sharpley under center, but there is a reason he was the backup, sorry and face it fUSC is loaded...but regardless, the future is bright!
 

mysontim

New member
Messages
28
Reaction score
0
All this hype that surround Jimmy Clausen reminds me of when Ron Powlus was being recruited and ended up basically not living up to the hype. I say Jimmy Clausen gets beat out by Dayne Crist next year and Jimmy Clausen transfers just like Jones and Frazer.

I think Jimmy will start next year and show something special, Sharpley with be No. 2 and step in if Jimmy gets hurt and Crist will redshirt his first year so we can have him for his redshirt junior just like Palmer and Leinhart. I hate to use SC as an example but CW did say that is who he wants wants us to emulate.
 

kmoose

Banned
Messages
10,298
Reaction score
1,181
I think Jimmy will start next year and show something special, Sharpley with be No. 2 and step in if Jimmy gets hurt and Crist will redshirt his first year so we can have him for his redshirt junior just like Palmer and Leinhart. I hate to use SC as an example but CW did say that is who he wants wants us to emulate.


Crist will not redshirt. ND doesn't redshirt, at least not in the normal sense. At the end of four years, if a player still has eligibility left, they must:

Have graduated, and

Be accepted to, and enrolled in, an ND Graduate program.

Only then will the University accept their petition for their 5th year.

It's kind of the same as redshirting, but not really. When you redshirt, the school petitions the NCAA, at that time, for a 5th year for you. If granted, then you have that year, regardless of your academic standing. (As long as you meet the academic eligibility requirements of the NCAA)
 

notredomer23

Staph Member
Messages
17,635
Reaction score
17,557
Crist will not redshirt. ND doesn't redshirt, at least not in the normal sense. At the end of four years, if a player still has eligibility left, they must:

yes they do. A perfect example is Harrison Smith. Has great talent, but redshirted him this year so he still can fit in when his time is called because there are people in front of him on the depth chart.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

GoshenGipper

Rest In Peace
Messages
7,946
Reaction score
394
yes they do. A perfect example is Harrison Smith. Has great talent, but redshirted him this year so he still can fit in when his time is called because there are people in front of him on the depth chart.

kmoose is actually right. It's not so much as redshirting Harrison as it is saving his year of eligibility.
 

NDsuperfan09

New member
Messages
580
Reaction score
21
I agree with whoever said Clausen is going to break out next year. Clausen has been the least of our offensive problems all year. He gets like one chance every game to sit in the pocket and set his feet and throw. The great ones get to do that 15-25 times a game. When the offensive Line improves, and Clausen hits the weightroom Clausen will explode.

I also don't buy the argument (not calling anyone out here) that Clausen hasn't shown any flashes of talent. In the Michigan game towards the end of the first half he threw a 40 yard laser to Carlson deep into Michigan territory but Carlson dropped it. Against UCLA he had a TD dropped by Carlson, Ragone dropped one in the purdue game, Kamara dropped two TD passes against Penn State, and Parris dropped one. All of those throws were right on the money where only the offensive player could catch it. IMO get him some better protection, and open up a playbook with a year of weightlifting and experience added on top he could have a very good year next year. Dayne Crist is going to be a great one following Clausen but IMO starting him next year is way too premature. If Clausen has better protection, the playbook is opened up, and he is fully healthy and he is playing this bad at this point next year then it's time for Crist. Many ND fans aren't sold on him because he hasn't been great this year. Any knowledgeable fan will tell you that he is the furthest thing from the problem. A QB can only go as far as his offensive line and skill position players take him. If the line blocks, and the receivers can get open we will all be happy with what Clausen will provide our offense in the future. That's a very good QB who can lead our offense and make it maybe the most explosive we have seen in years at ND.
 
S

steven8234

Guest
You know I have to agree with ND=NC, If the O-line could ever get up off the ground and give this kid more than 32 miliseconds to make a decesion then he'd have a few seconds to let Golden Tate more than 2 yards from the line of scrimmage and catch a pass. I will admit thought that I'm been very frustrated at both Weis and Clausen but that's just because I can't stand seeing us lose like this. Specially since the Irish haters are coming out of the wood work. I did read an interview with Weis right after USC and he sounds like he's really taking this hard and I'm already looking forward to next year...I guess we'll just see.
 
M

Moostache

Guest
Clausen needs to supplant Sharpley NOW.

There is absolutely no benefit for Weis or the team or the program to allow this abomination of a season come to its bitter end with the career back-up and firstbaseman still at the helm, while Clausen sits it out against the weakest 4 defenses the team will face all year. The only thing that can be achieved by doing this is creating (or extending) the QB controversey into next spring.

Play Clausen first against the lesser regarded defenses remaining. If he bombs, then he has bombed his chance to seize the starting job and give Sharpley his second chance too. Neither QB was directly responsible for a win this year against the toughest 8 teams on the schedule, so to give the back-up the first crack at the soft schedule is pattently unfair, and quite frankly another mistake by Weis is a season of woeful decisions...

Weis said that it would be unfair to Sharpley to say that he got his one start and didn't beat USC so he is done, so because of that he would expect Sharpley to remain the starter for the Navy game....WRONG AGAIN CHARLIE!!!! Sadly, this is starting to remind me of the scene from 'Platoon' where Charlie Sheen tells the DI that he was wrong and the reply is "Wrong? You ain't never been RIGHT!!!"

  • You were WRONG to not have any kind of physical training camp to get O-Linemen trained in fundementals at the college level, or at least to reinforce them and build some cohesion.
  • You were WRONG to start DJ and then heave him under the bus for a bad 1/2 of play, without really allowing him the chance to throw downfield (and given how anemic the rest of the offense has looked, including the other QBs since then, we at ND will always be wondering 'what-if' on this one now that he has transferred).
  • You were WRONG to even attempt to install two separate offenses for different QB packages THIS year of all years given the inexperience and lack of depth on the lines and lack of proven playmakers on offense.
  • You were WRONG to announce that Clausen was really the starter all along except for medical issues until Sept. 1.

This litnany of errors is partially (ok, maybe as much as 60-70%) to blame for the season-long house of horrrors we have all witnessed on offense (sorry, but NO ONE is still inexperienced in week 8, 2/3 of the way through a season....

Please, please, please take this bit of sound advice : When you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!!!!

Here is a more detailed look at why Clausen (as long as he is healthy enough to play) should IMMEDIATELY be reinstated as the starter:

1) Weis SAID he was #1 out of Spring Ball and Fall Camp.

He repeated this mantra several times heading into PSU game. The way it came out in the press and from Charlie was regrettably handled and MAY have contributed to DJ's rash decision to transfer, but it was said clearly and publically. If Jimmy was the best in Spring Drills and gave the team the best chance earlier this year - against the tougher teams on the schedule - then unless he is injured, and physically unable to play, he should logically get the first crack, not the second chance (or possibly no chance if ND actually manages to win these last 4 games), to show what he can do against the weaker defenses on the schedule. Let's say that Evan does reasonably well and the team actually beats Navy....now what? Do you then switch back to Clausen after a win? No, if Sharpley starts against Navy it is a signal that Clausen's season is over and the freshman year was a total loss for him....

2) Weis already threw him to the lions (against the 'meat' of the Bataan Death March portion of the scehdule, including all but the USC defense) and got predictable results - very little production.

The one thing Clausen did fairly well, except for the BC game, was avoid interceptions by throwing the ball away many times. In that BC-game he badly underthrew one deep pass (which leads me to believe the elbow injury is still an issue, or the hip; but something did not look right - and if he is truly injured, then SAY SO!!!!) - and then he threw the second into a tight spot; one where I don't think Carlson believed the ball would actually make it to him, and when it did, he proceeded to bat it into the air for a tip-drill INT. Hardly a cavalier attitude towards protecting the ball...

Clausen looked very ordinary for a lot of reasons, but he did not look like he was costing the team wins. The O-Line was (and still is) as putrid as 6-day old road kill in July. The RB's had no holes and when holes were there for the half-life of a quark, they were unable to hit them or indecisive enough to miss them. The WRs dropped several TD passes and untold numbers of other passes. And finally, Clausen did what many inexperienced people do in all jobs and all walks of life - when in doubt, he hesitated and sometimes held the ball too long or did not pull the trigger on a throw where the intended WR was "open" by college standards but "covered" by HS standards. In other words, Clausen erred on the side of caution a lot and as a result did not try too many forced throws - based on what happened in his last pass attempt (the bullet to Carlson that ended up like a very nice Karch Kiraly set), I don't think any one should really blame him too much for those decisions....


3) Weis then sat him down because Sharpley was supposedly going to be better against USC and give the team a chance to win....well, I was at the game Saturday and if Sharpley looked any better than Clausen did against Michigan I'll eat my hat.

At least the Michigan game spiralled out of control due to turnovers and silly mistakes (shotgun snaps over heads, failing to secure a fumble after first trying to pick it up) and putrid, bordering on down right criminal offensive line protection - anyone remember the photo of Jimmy getting hit by ALL FOUR MICHIGAN D-Linemen???? AT THE SAME TIME??? WHILE ALL FIVE ND O-Linemen WATCHED FROM THEIR ASSES???

Given that Clausen started the Michigan debacle and Sharpley started the USC debacle and BOTH ended in equally feeble 38-0 drubbings, on what basis exactkly can one logically conclude that the second stringer from pre-season EARNED the chance to show what he can do against lesser defenses BEFORE the pre-season STARTER gets a shot at the same defenses?


I think that we can logically agree that a healthy Clausen, whose worst beating was the 38-0 ROAD loss to UM, should be given first crack a softer protion of the schedule than Sharpley, whose worst drubbing was a 38-0 HOME loss to USC...if Clausen's ability to move the offense and produce points does not show a marked improvement, then by all means, it is certainly time to let Sharpley have his chance...but NOT BEFORE you give the same chance to Clausen!!!

If the "best player plays" is the team motto, and Weis had already publically declared Jimmy the best player available, then leaving Sharpley in at the QB position for the Navy game is 100% flying in the face of that argument....and don't think recruits can't figure this out. Clausen paid his dues by suffering through the early season games against the better teams on the ND schedule. He was beaten down by a horrid O-line this long, and now, just when the offense gets a chance to go against a non-top 35 rushing defense and some defenses in the bottom 3rd of the NCAA rankings overall, now you are going to stick with the backup?????

I know all of the other arguments about Sharpley giving the team more 'spark' when he played and how he had more long scoring drives, blah, blah, blah....How many TD passes did he throw that were dropped? How many times did Clausen put the ball on a WR's hands in the endzone and see them treat it like an Ebola-infected rag?

Bottom-line is this....unless he is actually injured and cannot play 100%, then Clausen deserves the chance to show what he can do against poor defenses BEFORE Sharpley does. The alternative is this - people see Sharpley tear up a Navy defense or a Duke defense for 250 yards and 3 TDs and start to say "see, he was the right man for the job all along"....well, no, I disagree. If Sharpley had been the pre-season starter all along, then yes, that line of thinking might be true; but he was not, and to give him the chance to possibly outshine Clausen by leaving him in against the softer defesnes - especially when their performances against top-level defenses showed no discernible edge to either - is a disservice.

If that does happen. and let's say ND beats the last 4 teams on the schedule somehow (although they stink I can't believe they stink enough to lose all of this 4 games)...and Sharpley is the QB...can we honestly say that it is a fair evaluation of the two QBs then? No, we head into the most important spring practice of Weis' career then with a still simmering QB controversey for no good reason other than to save Evan's feelings at being promoted, losing and having to be demoted again.

You are in a hole Charlie.....STOP DIGGING ALREADY!!!!
 

WaveDomer

Well-known member
Messages
1,356
Reaction score
307
QB has to be one of the most difficult positions in all of sport. You have to read defenses, make quick decisions, stay poised, run an offense, and on top of all of that you have to throw the ball well. There is no friggin' way a kid comes out of high school with the ability to do all of that right away. Especially now when defenses are so fast and strong. And especially when your entire offense is struggling anyway.

Actually, Brady Quinn is an excellent bench marker. Tom Brady is as well. Two QBs who are smart and work their tails off. When Brady was at Michigan, who would have thought he would be a Hall of Famer? QB is a position that needs a workaholic. If Clausen does that, he will be great. I see nothing so far that says he won't do that. Pure talent + smarts + coaching + workhorse = Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. Pure talent - workhorse - brains = Ryan Leaf.
 

johnnd05

Johnny T. works for me
Messages
4,522
Reaction score
275
I hear ya Moostache, but I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion. In the first place there's the issue of keeping/getting Clausen healthy, and in the second place I do think that being fair to Sharpley is something Weis has to take into consideration. It may have been a mistake to start Sharpley against SC in the first place, but now that Weis has made that decision it would be pretty tough on the kid to yank him after just one game.

I pretty much agree with everything you say; it's just that I think the decision Weis has to make here is a really tough one. This team has gone through a TON of shuffling already from week to week, and I'm inclined to be opposed to doing any more of that than is necessary. In all probability Sharpley will start against Navy, but he won't play more than three quarters unless (1) he's doing really well and (2) the game is close. Clausen will probably take a bit more playing time away from him each week unless Evan really ends up falling on his face - and I guess I think that now that the switch has been made, that's the way it should be.
 
T

Tennesseeirish

Guest
NDOM it takes a real man to call him self a douche bag. Your OK in my book. I do understand your frustration but believe me Clausen is the real deal. I have followed him from his sophomore year in HS. He just needs to be given the opportunity to throw it down field.

And we have one of the best deep threats a QB could ask for
 

KAPLAN

Active member
Messages
874
Reaction score
60
I took a look at both of their first 7 games of their freshman years.
Brady had 228 attempts with 102 completions for a 44.7 completion %

Jimmy has 81 out of 141 for a 57.4%

Brady had 5 TD's and 11 Int's

Jimmy has 1 TD and 5 Int's

Brady had 1162 Yards on 228 Attempts for a 5.09 Yards/Attempt

Jimmy has 618 Yards on 141 Attempts for a 4.38 Y/A

Personally I think Brady had more to work with and had some older talent around him. He also had less pressure. I also think Clausen is going to be just fine and we will all look back and laugh at how we questioned his ability.
 
G

Get Nasty

Guest
Brady had a pretty good O-Line and Julius Jones (276 rushing yds at pitt) even though he wasn't used enough.
 

piyachi

New member
Messages
474
Reaction score
51
Well for starters, this thread is interesting proof of how quickly people forget that many were calling for Evan to be the starter. Of how he could light up the offense, and how JC was soooo over-hyped. Newsflash: Quarterback play is far from the biggest factor in the anemic offense, and really the difference is over-cautious dink 'n dunk and madman guns blazing. Neither of which wins a lot of games. I give them both credit for going out there to take a rocky-esque beating, but I'll take a healthy Clausen over a healthy Sharpley.

Personally Moose, I think Evan does deserve to get some more time - although if he lets things slide at all while getting the start, I think he gets pulled in favor of Clausen. I agree with almost all your points as far as it being better for the future of the team to play JC, but Evan deserves a fair shot after riding the bench and having his first start against a top10 D.

Clausen v Quinn? Well I'm hoping the one thing that ends up mattering in a comparison is that JC makes the big leap between this season and next, whereas Brady had to wait until Weis showed up. I don't think Jimmy is going to match the unbelievable physical strength of Brady (he just doesn't look built to be THAT big) but I think he will pack on maybe 10 lbs of muscle on in the offseason and be ready to throw some bombs to Floyd/Tate next year. At this stage in their respective careers they do seem pretty equivalent but JC seems to have been dealt an even crappier hand, so kudos to him. I hope it helps him build the same sort of character and leadership ability as his predecessor.
 

goldandblue

Well-known member
Messages
3,721
Reaction score
419
There was a post up at ND Nation after six games or so and Clausen's comp. % numbers were better (of course), his sack totals were WAY higher, and he had fewer interceptions (I think), but he had fewer yards and yards per comp. and fewer TD's. (I'm working from memory, so correct me if I'm wrong.) It would be interesting, though, to see what percentage of Brady's yards and TD's came from heaving the ball downfield to Shelton.

But I don't see what point this sort of comparison serves, since they were playing in rather different situations. All I know is that Clausen needs to hit the weight room and bulk the hell up.

Wouldn't hurt if he did some speed exercises either!
 
Top