Running out of Room?

[IrishCalves]

If this kept up, and the good folks of Irish Envy were the one's on the recruiting trail, our prospects would probably talk about our coaching staff like this:

"They're a real fun group to listen to. I've picked up a couple good new momma jokes from their bickering. They kind of remind me of the three stooges. You know, try to beat each other up all the time, say snide comments, yet its always the same faces that show up at my door."

Anywho. Right now, the break down is looking like this:

1 QB
1 RB
3 WR
2 TE
4 OL
4-5 DL
4-5 LB
2-3 DB

I think in recruiting the defensive front 7, it'll depend on who we get. Lets say by the end of the summer, we get Filer on boad, and still have Sabino and A. Brown interested. If we hit on one of those two, I say we have 5 LB's, and 4 DL. But if we don't hit on those guys, then we'd shift our focus to landing 5 defensive lineman. Same would hold true if we had, say, Newman and Goebel verbal to us, and were down between Ethan Johnson and Marques Forston. If we brick on them, we focus on getting the extra LB. And who knows; if we miss on all of them, it wouldn't shock me to see a 5th OL.

I threw in a 3rd DB, just in case Lambert doesn't come back.

 

[scooper]

I think nine defensive front 7 guys 4-5 or 5-4. Depending on which group has the fifth jump on first.

I think 3 db's is a big one after only getting one corner last year. You really need to keep a solid three deep there.

 

[son of rook]

Johnnd05 thank you for your apologize which was appreciate on my part but wasn't necessary on your part. I guess I let my Irish temper get the better me, which I should not have done when I felt there was piling on. I apologize for my post which was out of character for me. You have every right to state your opinions which I should have read and then taken them at face value. Its like I stated before, I like to read others posts and digest them because I know there is always something to learn from others. Well, when I sat down this morning and read the balance the thread from where I last posted I see I had made a error in stating the 88 team had no 5th years. I also realized that I hadn't clearly stated my feeling on 5th year players. I had stated that one of tha senior had been out for a year and still was a four year player. This of course was F.Strams a fullback who was hurt in the preseason of 86 and was out that year and then came back as OLB and DE in 87 and 88. I have no problem giving someone who has performed their entire time on the team a 5th year but I see no reason to give a 5th year to someone who has played very little and cut out new recruits. I did not remember Gordon and Pritchett being on the team in 1984 and thought they were forth year seniors in 88. I guess I'll blame that on my age. I do remember when there was not a number of recruits you were limited too and could load up tthe talent, then it went to 105, then 95, and now 85 which make them very valuable in improving your team. You don't want to waste them on low performers. Well I've rambled long enough and I again apologize for the misunderstanding I think we must both love Notre Dame.

 

[johnnd05]

Cool, then. Go Irish!

 

[kjones]

Um...I can't believe you wrote this awful post

Um...What were you thinking

Um...Whatever!

Um...I can see how the uninitiated would believe that..

Um...Who died and left you boss.

Um...Where did they grow you?

Um...Are you using crib notes?

Um...WTF is wrong with you???

Um...why should I care what an Ohio State Bucknut fan thinks?

 

[GoshenGipper]

Um...why should I care what an Ohio State Bucknut fan thinks?

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Sorry Stoney, but that is funny!

Reps, KJ!

 

[rockne19]

who's ne xt to commit?anybody have any idea?

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Bastards! How can you make fun of me, when I"M doing the making fun of???

Does that make sense?
I'm calling for backup, Plankton..you and I got some work to do (Evil Plan Z)

 

[notredomer23]

Stoney is plankton that dude from spongebob. Watchin it with your kid i see? or do you just love the show

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

Yeah.

Yeah

Yeah

 

[son of rook]

The general consenus of the remaining needs left by position seem to be as follows: (1) RB . (2) more WR. (2) more OL . (1) S. (2) DT/NT. (1) CB. Pick between: Blanton, Slaughter, J.Brown, or 5th yr Lambert . (1) more DE/DT. Pick between: E. Johnson, G Goebel, K Lewis-Moore or 5th yr Brown . (2) more OLB. Pick between E. Sabino, S. Filer, A Brown, S Hale, or 5th year Vernaglia. (1) more ILB. Pick between B.Beal, A Sweat or 5th yr Crum . Total of 13 to go with the 12 verbals we have now, mading 85 total for the team. Who would be your picks?

 

[knute]

The general consenus of the remaining needs left by position seem to be as follows: (1) RB . (2) more WR. (2) more OL . (1) S. (2) DT/NT. (1) CB. Pick between: Blanton, Slaughter, J.Brown, or 5th yr Lambert . (1) more DE/DT. Pick between: E. Johnson, G Goebel, K Lewis-Moore or 5th yr Brown . (2) more OLB. Pick between E. Sabino, S. Filer, A Brown, S Hale, or 5th year Vernaglia. (1) more ILB. Pick between B.Beal, A Sweat or 5th yr Crum . Total of 13 to go with the 12 verbals we have now, mading 85 total for the team. Who would be your picks?

Maybe I'm not reading your list correctly. You think they'll take 2 more OLB and 1 more ILB for 6 linebackers this year?

 

[son of rook]

I think as far as taking (2) more OLB many think Neal and Ryan will grow into DE and if we could get two of the group of Filer, Sabino, Brown or Hale it would be worth whlile. In the case of the ILB you could be losing Brockington and Crum whle your juniors Smith and Quinn haven't been real impressive up to now. I think Beal or Sweat would be an upgrade to any of the four. Myself I'd take another CB and try to get two of the four CB we have offered between Slaughter, Brown, Blanton, or Bryant. I guess I think defense will win National Championships and I wouldn't mind having a couple extra players I could red shirt into the following year.

 

[IrishCalves]

I don't know who you've been talking to, but the notion that Ryan and Neal will both be DE's in this scheme is off.

I've heard Weis quoted as saying that Ryan can't add a whole lot more weight, and that Neal is an "ideal" fit at OLB for the 3-4. While people may think otherwise, I'll chose to run with the quotes from the head coach.

Now, maybe you heard people speculate that they'll put their hand on the ground if/when we do 4-3 looks?

That in mind, the offensive projections look good. Defense, its kind of hard to tell. My gut feeling is, if we're in play with elite LBs, we'll bring in 5 guys there, and less at other positions. If the elite guys are in play at DL, then look for 4 LB. And if we miss on a boat load of the front 7 guys, then look for higher numbers in the secondary.

And remember, we don't want to max this class out. Next year's #'s are already going to be low, so we'd be dipping into next year's group if we took in 25.

 

[irishunclebill]

25 is not even a realistic number, even without dipping. For ND to have 25 schollies available this year, all 5 of the 5th year guys would have to be told they can't come back, and additionally there would have to be at least one transfer. There is also talk that the kid who transferred from Northwestern will be offered a schollie. If that happens, you are talking about possibly only 18 this year if no one transfers and all 5 5th years come back. There is no way that CW sends Lambert and Crum to the wolves. There may be a transfer but even that is not a certainty. If everything falls into place, there might be a max of 22 available this year, and CW might not use them all because no matter what happen this year, the 2009 class is going to be 15 or less.

 

[son of rook]

Well I don't know if these guy' will grow or not and if Weis thinks they won't He's the Coach. Ido agree with you that when you have 4 LB's on the field all the time take as many elite LB's as you can. I'm not worried about the numbers for next year if you can get more elite people this recruiting cycle. You never know how many people will leave before 2009 because the many reason they can leave for. If we took 25 this year the numbers would only allow us to take 14 in 2009 . I think by then 1 or 2 QB will have left along with the (2) or ( 3) others that leave each year for whatever reason. In recruiting I believe the future is now if you can recruit top line talent. You never know what kind of talent you will get next year.

 

[rockne19]

i think we take take 22

 

[son of rook]

You may end up being right at 22. But when i look at what Forida has done since 2002 I don't think that is enough. Florida in 2002 took 23, in 2003 took 26, in 2004 took 23, in 2005 took18 , in 2006 took 27 and in 2007 took 27. This adds up to 144 iin 6 years or 24per year.

 

[irishunclebill]

Oh Boy, here we go. Why do you insist on saying 25 when there is no realistic chance of that happening. The 2 or 3 that leave each year for whatever reason? Can you please name these 2 or 3 the last 2 years, and can anybody name 2 or 3 that they think are imminent this year. Everyone assumes that if Zach does not make the Final 2 that he will automatically transfer, but there is no basis in that either. Gallup is more familiar with that situation than anyone in this forum, help me out here Nick. Also remember that if anybody does transfer out or quit or whatever, they will have to do so before NSD for ND to be able to offer a replacement schollie.

Now don't get mad at me, Son of Rook, but if you are going to propose scenarios based on number of schollies, please do it with some factual basis to support your theory. We all want to see ND succeed and it would be great if there was a possibility that we could offer 25 schollies this year, but since that is not going to happen, it is better to deal with the reality of the limitation the staff is facing.

 

[johnnd05]

25 is not even a realistic number, even without dipping. For ND to have 25 schollies available this year, all 5 of the 5th year guys would have to be told they can't come back, and additionally there would have to be at least one transfer. There is also talk that the kid who transferred from Northwestern will be offered a schollie. If that happens, you are talking about possibly only 18 this year if no one transfers and all 5 5th years come back. There is no way that CW sends Lambert and Crum to the wolves. There may be a transfer but even that is not a certainty. If everything falls into place, there might be a max of 22 available this year, and CW might not use them all because no matter what happen this year, the 2009 class is going to be 15 or less.

Just note that Son of Rook's original '25' allowed for the possibility of accepting Crum, Lambert, and Vernaglia back as fifth-years (i.e., they were among the choices he listed for who could take up those spots). I'll still be pretty shocked, though, if we go over twenty in the '08 class and neither Hill nor Brown nor Forston is #21.

 

[Irishknight1023]

15 would really suck next year. It's alot more exciting to take 40 like all the SEC schools do and take bets on if half will qualify, exciting. Yes an unnessasary cheap shot, but who cares?

 

[rockne19]

so lets say we have 10 slots left.we have many offers out there i think we wll be very selective.only the best of the best.

 

[rockne19]

One thing thatI look at is what other schools are offering the same prospects that we are going after.And since Charlie has gotten here we are definitley offering better players.We are going up against the likes of usc,florida,miami,michigan,etc.A big difference from the Willingham and Davie days.

 

[son of rook]

Usc in 2003 and 2003 took 50 players total. They came back in 2004 and could only take 19 but 8 of these were 5 star. In 2005 they only could take 19 of which 3 were 5 stars. in 2006 they took 26 and 4 were 5 stars. Last year in 2007 they could only take 18 and 6 were 5 star. I guess the name of the game is get the best players with the number of scholarships you have.

 

[irishunclebill]

Just note that Son of Rook's original '25' allowed for the possibility of accepting Crum, Lambert, and Vernaglia back as fifth-years (i.e., they were among the choices he listed for who could take up those spots). I'll still be pretty shocked, though, if we go over twenty in the '08 class and neither Hill nor Brown nor Forston is #21.

I'm confused, maybe it's because I've been working for 14 hours already today. Where in the hell does 25 come from with Crum, Lambert & Vernaglia back? The list I am looking at says that there is 66 schollies out there for all but the current group that exhausts their eligibility this year. Of that 66, 5 would be fifth year seniors in 2008. So that would leave a maximum of 24 (85-61) if all 5 did not return and nothing else happened. Again, maybe I screwed up the math, but if 24 is the max without Crum, Lambert & Vernaglia, then I’m pretty sure that the number becomes 21, not 25, with them coming back. When I started this thread I used 22 because I though there might be at least one transfer, and I’m not so sure about that anymore. I guess my point is, if my math is correct, that it’s kind of useless to project past 22 when it is very unlikely that more than 22 will be available.

Please correct my math if I'm wrong.

 

[stonebreakerwasgod]

You really think Vernaglia will be back?? If he does, it's because he had a pretty darn good year.

 

[rockne19]

on another site a recruiting expert thinks we will take 22.Well maybe a nd football expert.

 

[johnnd05]

I'm confused, maybe it's because I've been working for 14 hours already today. Where in the hell does 25 come from with Crum, Lambert & Vernaglia back? The list I am looking at says that there is 66 schollies out there for all but the current group that exhausts their eligibility this year. Of that 66, 5 would be fifth year seniors in 2008. So that would leave a maximum of 24 (85-61) if all 5 did not return and nothing else happened. Again, maybe I screwed up the math, but if 24 is the max without Crum, Lambert & Vernaglia, then I’m pretty sure that the number becomes 21, not 25, with them coming back. When I started this thread I used 22 because I though there might be at least one transfer, and I’m not so sure about that anymore. I guess my point is, if my math is correct, that it’s kind of useless to project past 22 when it is very unlikely that more than 22 will be available.

Please correct my math if I'm wrong.

No, your math is fine. I just assumed that SoR was figuring on a transfer, which would get the total number of freshman + fifth-years up to 25. But in any case it was just worth pointing out that his number wasn't quite as off-base as it might have seemed at first.

 

[johnnd05]

Usc in 2003 and 2003 took 50 players total. They came back in 2004 and could only take 19 but 8 of these were 5 star. In 2005 they only could take 19 of which 3 were 5 stars. in 2006 they took 26 and 4 were 5 stars. Last year in 2007 they could only take 18 and 6 were 5 star. I guess the name of the game is get the best players with the number of scholarships you have.

Excellent point. Quality is definitely more important than quantity: 18 guys with a great chance of making it is better than 25 with only mediocre chances. And balance across the classes is, I think, also an important consideration.