Banana Company asking for Protection

notredomer23

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Chiquita, a banana company based in cincinatti but picks there bananas in Columbia from 1997 to 2004 asked terrorists for protection. They paid the terrorists 1.7 million dollars but Chiquita is being fined 24 million dollars. I just posted this because the title of the article sounds a little messed up but its a true story.
 
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gallup21

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according to my $ knowledge theres a big difference between $24 Mill and $1.7 Mill. approx 22.3$ mill if my maths correct
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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I don't think that negotiating with terrorists is a good idea, but in that part of the world, it is expected to grease palms.. normal operating procedures for most businesses. I think the fine was kind of harsh, what is a company supposed to do, forgoe all of their investment?
 
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ShivaIrish

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I don't think that negotiating with terrorists is a good idea, but in that part of the world, it is expected to grease palms.. normal operating procedures for most businesses. I think the fine was kind of harsh, what is a company supposed to do, forgoe all of their investment?

I know we've touched on this subject earlier, Stoney, but this is a case of "it's just business." Interesting how when business is the major issue, all of a sudden the whole terrorist thing is not seen as "wrong." Normal Operating procedures: corporations working with immoral regimes to exploit a country's people and resources? And then one wonders why so many people disrespect Western companies.
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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Of course it's wrong, but a company has to look out for its employees. What are they supposed to do, let them get captured, tortured, and shot? If sure you would feel different if it was YOUR ass being held captive, wondering if you would ever see Hilary on tv again. There IS a difference between governments, and private businesses operating on foreign soil. Businesses aren't there to solve local problems (as much as you think they should), they are just trying to do their best to keep risk low. People hate 'western' companies irregardless of what they do, why should this change anything.
 
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ShivaIrish

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Of course it's wrong, but a company has to look out for its employees. What are they supposed to do, let them get captured, tortured, and shot? If sure you would feel different if it was YOUR ass being held captive, wondering if you would ever see Hilary on tv again. There IS a difference between governments, and private businesses operating on foreign soil. Businesses aren't there to solve local problems (as much as you think they should), they are just trying to do their best to keep risk low. People hate 'western' companies irregardless of what they do, why should this change anything.

Although it would be the Christina thing for businesses to help the communities they are in, even if that happens to be outside of the U.S. border, I don't think one can legislate against that (nor do I think it's necessarily desireable). However, one cannot just allow businesses to take advantage of of unethical situations that enfringe on people's human rights. It's a matter of holding companies to a basic human-rights/economic fairness standard, not about making them charitable. In addition, the payment to terrorist paramilitary groups is only one possible example of unethical actions by Chiquita, such as using the ports to smuggle weapons for the United Self-Defence Force (which has been called a death squad). Chiquita's record of ethics is far from exemplery. Its record with pesticide use harmful to its workers demonstrates that its payment for "protection" was, at the very least, probably not made out of a good-will intent for their employees.

We're taking the word of a corporation whose past actions should speak for themselves? (One example, from Mike Gallagher and Cameron McWhirter of the Cincinnati Enquirer):

"Security guards have used brute force to enforce their authority on plantations operated or controlled by Chiquita. In an internationally controversial case, Chiquita called in the Honduran military to enforce a court order to evict residents of a farm village; the village was bulldozed and villagers run out at gunpoint. On a palm plantation controlled by a Chiquita subsidiary in Honduras, a man was shot to death and another man injured by guards using an illegal automatic weapon. An agent of a competitor has filed a federal lawsuit claiming that armed men led by Chiquita officials tried to kidnap him in Honduras."

I do hope Chiquita has made improvements, and will continue to do so.

I think you can make a case that some people at this point are against anything "Western" as far as business is concerned. However, those companies have, and still do, give plenty of reason to reject many of them and their products.
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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I think businesses help communities alot, and it mostly gets ignored by those who see them as evil. My small company does alot for cincinnati. The multi-national company my wife works for does a HECK of alot of things for the community and not-for-profit orgs. It is just all under the radar.
 
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ShivaIrish

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I think businesses help communities alot, and it mostly gets ignored by those who see them as evil. My small company does alot for cincinnati. The multi-national company my wife works for does a HECK of alot of things for the community and not-for-profit orgs. It is just all under the radar.

Companies do help communities at times. However, it cannot be ignored that a lot of the times, what they do also doubles as a PR/advertising move, etc. By that very fact, it often times does not fall under the radar. That's not necessarily a bad thing either, it just is what it is. Chiquita also supposedly helped its community in Ohio, but that does not give it the option to do horrible things abroad.

People who blindly support companies, for some reason, like to overlook that aspect. As you readily admit, companies/corporations are here to make money--not be charitable. So then why try to overlook their failings and point out their charitable examples? I don't know your company, or your wife's, but there's ennough evidence to label Chiquita as an unethical company (and then, not buy their bananas again until they shape up).
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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I'm not sure that a company 'paying off' terrorists is something I would call a shortcoming if myself/family member was kidnapped/tortured. I understand the US government can not condone it, but it seems fair to put yourself in those shoes.
I like bananas, with peanut butter...
 

Freeman Ara

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I'm not sure that a company 'paying off' terrorists is something I would call a shortcoming if myself/family member was kidnapped/tortured. I understand the US government can not condone it, but it seems fair to put yourself in those shoes.
I like bananas, with peanut butter...

The only thing I see really wrong with it is its a huge conflict of interest. We as a country can't fight a war on terrorism and then allow a US based company to pay terrorists for protection. However, having experienced living overseas in Venezuela, South America as a child while my father worked for Rockwell International, I know what its like to have to worry about being protected as a US citizen in a foreign country. We lived in a gated community that only US families working for Rockwell lived in. My father had to call the plant when leaving home to go to work and he had to check in when he returned in the evening. On certain occasions there were actually local police escorts for company employee's depending on the political climate at the time. In one instance we were actually evacuated to the American embassy for a period of a few days.
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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Didn't Denzel play some guy in a movie that was a bodyguard for a girl, and she got kidnapped anyway? Something with "man" in the title.
I agree it is a total conflict of interest. I just try to put politics aside sometimes, and look at things from the bottom up. It's easy to have the high ground when it is not your ass in a sling. I see both arguments, i wish things like this weren't necessary.
 

Freeman Ara

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Didn't Denzel play some guy in a movie that was a bodyguard for a girl, and she got kidnapped anyway? Something with "man" in the title.
I agree it is a total conflict of interest. I just try to put politics aside sometimes, and look at things from the bottom up. It's easy to have the high ground when it is not your ass in a sling. I see both arguments, i wish things like this weren't necessary.

Name of the Denzel movie is "Man on Fire", he becomes such a bad ass in that flick. Anyway, I know I totally agree that in a perfect world you could take the politics out of it and these issues wouldn't be a problem. Honestly, if they are paying 1.7 million to terrorists they could easily just hire a US based security firm to protect there employees. I am willing to bet there is more going on then is being said in this case.
 
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ShivaIrish

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I am willing to bet there is more going on then is being said in this case.

That's one of the big points to consider. We have to remember this is a company with a past history demonstrating its lack of concern for its employees. And, it's in a part of the world where companies have had shady relationships (at the least) with the paramilitaries beforehand, in which workers seem to be oppressed. Just check out the evidence against Coca-Cola. Many companies there have to shoulder some of the blame for the horrible situation that exists.
 

stonebreakerwasgod

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I'm sure the holier than thou approach would be dropped with you in a hole in a ground surrounded by guys ready to kill you. This just sounds like the "hate corporations" thread. I'm done, I've said my peace. The answer is that we don't KNOW what really went on, so how can we say if they acted correctly or not?
 
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ShivaIrish

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Another thing that seems inconsistent with Chiquita's claims of "protecting" their workers, is that they funded the United Self-Defence Forces. Now who were they protecting their workers from, since that same group is the group that targets workers. It could be that there is another paramilitary group that is doing the same kind of thing. I would like an explanation though. This is a group that the ColumbiaJournal in 2001 said most of the killings could be contributed to. If that's the case, isn't that akin to someone paying off the Taliban in Afghanistan for protection against other insurgents?
 
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ShivaIrish

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I'm sure the holier than thou approach would be dropped with you in a hole in a ground surrounded by guys ready to kill you. This just sounds like the "hate corporations" thread. I'm done, I've said my peace. The answer is that we don't KNOW what really went on, so how can we say if they acted correctly or not?

My problem is that you seem willing to trust what a corporation with a shady past in international human rights says about a situation, and anybody else who wants to know more, or shows concern about what is really happening is just "anti-corporation attitude," and "liberal propaganda."

I also don't see why trying to stop people and businesses from enfringing upon people's human rights is all of a sudden "the holier than thou approach."


To prove that I'm not anti-coporation through and through--there is good news. I found out today that Dunkin Donuts uses fair-trade espresso products. :)
 
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