DiNardo : Shame on ND

Irishkid23

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Some of you may recall that DiNardo is the player who got into a fist fight on the sidelines during the "Antony Davis" USC game just before the end of the 1st half. ND was ahead 24-0 with about 1 minute left in the half. Then Davis scored and it was 24-6 at the end of the half. Of course we know all about the 2nd half.

This fight was allegedly started by DiNardo because of rape allegations accusing some ND players of raping a student. Second, there was also a strong "suggestion" that some of the defensive players "laid down" in the 2nd half of that game because of this fight. And third, this was allegedly a major reason why Ara resigned.

It appears DiNardo spouts off in ANGER.
 
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goldenechoes

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Some of you may recall that DiNardo is the player who got into a fist fight on the sidelines during the "Antony Davis" USC game just before the end of the 1st half. ND was ahead 24-0 with about 1 minute left in the half. Then Davis scored and it was 24-6 at the end of the half. Of course we know all about the 2nd half.

This fight was allegedly started by DiNardo because of rape allegations accusing some ND players of raping a student. Second, there was also a strong "suggestion" that some of the defensive players "laid down" in the 2nd half of that game because of this fight. And third, this was allegedly a major reason why Ara resigned.

It appears DiNardo spouts off in ANGER.

Can anyone confirm this bit of history? If so, wow.
 

Seymore

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Can anyone confirm this bit of history? If so, wow.

Ross Browner, Luther Bradley, Al Hunter, Willie Fry, Roy Henry, and Dan Knott, were all suspended for rape allegations in 1974. No charges were ever filed. Apparently the girl claiming she was raped, never pursued prosecution. All six players denied the allegations, but were suspended one year for violating campus rules.
 
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irish4ever

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"But there's really no signature wins. They seem to be ranked awfully high for not having one.

"I mean they've won the Commander-in-Chief's Trophy, but can you tell me what else they've done? And is there the assumption that Tyrone Willingham would have lost with a junior Brady Quinn against the same teams Charlie beat last year? I have a lot of questions."

Sounds like a unemployed jealous ex-coach that wished he had a chance to win the Commander-in-chiefs trophy to me!
 

Aerosmith777

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"This may sound terribly arrogant, and it just might be, but I can tell you there is very little that we can do where there isn't going to be backlash," Irish athletic director Kevin White said last summer in addressing the contract extension.

Lol, to change the subject briefly to something a little more positive, this is the greatest thing Kevin White has ever said...

As far as DiNardo's comments go, honestly, I think he's a mediocre coach trying to look after a couple other mediocre coaches. Mediocre coaches always play the "what if" game. What if Willingham had Brady Quinn as a junior & senior? What if the academic restrictions weren't so tough on Davie? What if? What if? What if? If Charlie was ever fired after a pair of combined 11-12 seasons, does anyone think he would play the what if game, or would he just take responsibility for the poor play and accept it? I think he's already shown what he'd do, as he's never blamed the lack of talent we can all see for his losses against USC and Michigan, but instead taken the responsibility himself.

As the saying goes, and someone should say it to DiNardo, if the Queen had balls she'd be the King.
 
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jerseyborn1971

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I still get annoyed when people make the Commander-In-Chief Trophy jokes. I wish they would show some friggin respect to the Academies and not treat that very REAL award as a punchline. No class. I couldn't be more proud that CW ACTUALLY shows respect for the Academies when the rest of the college football world uses empty praise one game a year at the Army-Navy game.
 

southbend62

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Ross Browner, Luther Bradley, Al Hunter, Willie Fry, Roy Henry, and Dan Knott, were all suspended for rape allegations in 1974. No charges were ever filed. Apparently the girl claiming she was raped, never pursued prosecution. All six players denied the allegations, but were suspended one year for violating campus rules.

Having lived through that time in South Bend...it was awful. ND football was sacred and the shock of the alligation was huge. Ross Browner was one of the leaders on that team so it was shocking. That was the one and only time my father defended the players for this kind of scandle...he always sided with the victim. It was awful.
 
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RichardRiot

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Ross Browner, Luther Bradley, Al Hunter, Willie Fry, Roy Henry, and Dan Knott, were all suspended for rape allegations in 1974. No charges were ever filed. Apparently the girl claiming she was raped, never pursued prosecution. All six players denied the allegations, but were suspended one year for violating campus rules.

Wasn't Arrington subjected to something similar after he WAS charged this year?
 
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RichardRiot

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"And is there the assumption that Tyrone Willingham would have lost with a junior Brady Quinn against the same teams Charlie beat last year?"

Yeah, that pretty much sums up why Willingham is not at ND; and I actually liked Willingham the man....just thought he was an ineffective coach. He actually did have some talent (guys like Jones, Battle, Holiday, Tuck, Faine, Duff, Walton), but other than the quick start his first year, he didn't do much with that talent.
 
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"They have joined major-college football," DiNardo said of the Irish. "They've become what they never wanted to become. Football is clearly the most important thing on campus. And it wasn't that way when (coach) Ara Parseghian was there (1964-74) and he couldn't make more money than the highest-paid professor on campus.

"As an alumnus, I was always proud of the fact that it appeared Notre Dame kept football in perspective. You can't use graduation rate and academics as an argument that they have kept perspective, because when (former coach) Bob Davie got fired in 1999, he said, 'Well, we're doing well academically.' And the university told him, 'We take credit for that. Not you.'"


Did this guy play in ND Stadium which is overlooked by Touchdown Jesus? If I am not mistaken, the library was there when he was there, as well as Boob Davie. And I also think it is evident that we can be a top 15 team and still have the highest grad rate for any major college sport, mens or womens.This guy is way off the mark. ND and football are as synonomous as Yankees and baseball. I award him no points and may god have mercy on his soul.
 
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jerseyborn1971

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"They have joined major-college football," DiNardo said of the Irish. "They've become what they never wanted to become. Football is clearly the most important thing on campus. And it wasn't that way when (coach) Ara Parseghian was there (1964-74) and he couldn't make more money than the highest-paid professor on campus.

"As an alumnus, I was always proud of the fact that it appeared Notre Dame kept football in perspective. You can't use graduation rate and academics as an argument that they have kept perspective, because when (former coach) Bob Davie got fired in 1999, he said, 'Well, we're doing well academically.' And the university told him, 'We take credit for that. Not you.'"


Did this guy play in ND Stadium which is overlooked by Touchdown Jesus? If I am not mistaken, the library was there when he was there, as well as Boob Davie. And I also think it is evident that we can be a top 15 team and still have the highest grad rate for any major college sport, mens or womens.This guy is way off the mark. ND and football are as synonomous as Yankees and baseball. I award him no points and may god have mercy on his soul.

Nice Billy Madison reference.
 

grantland

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It's easy to look back during times of trouble or at unhappy times and wistfully say "it was so much better then. I wish it were still like that". Such a qualitative word, "better". Was it "better" during Ara's time? Different? Sure. Better? I'm not so sure.

The world continues to move on and change. College football has dramatically changed since the 60's and early 70's. Notre Dame--the University and football--have changed. So what has changed? Personally, I like the fact that I can watch ND football "live" virtually every Saturday instead of watching the Lindsey Nelson highlights on Sunday after Mass. I like the fact that there are broader course offerings taught by a world-class faculty. I like the fact that Fr. Jenkins has a moral view and is not shy about sharing it. I also have no problem with the University paying a more competitive salary to ALL its faculty, even though I am literally paying for it, including the football coaches. But "competitive" is relative and should not be confused with "equal".

The world changes, and it is OK to change as long as the change is managed in a way that is consistent with our values. Notre Dame has changed and managed the change fantastically well, consistent with our values. Personally, I think the University deserves our praise for that, rather than our criticism. It is VERY difficult to do well.

Reps. Times change and ND has done a great job keeping up. There have been bumps along the way, but the administration has done well. Frankly, I have been pissed at the Administration for not bumping coach's salaries sooner! Or to let the Tony Rices and Vagus Furgesons of the world into the school.

I wonder if there were any pissed alums when Rockne built a stadium that would hold 59,075 or when he decided to coach football instead of teach chemistry or when Leahy recruited guys out of the military to come play football for ND or when Gipp missed practices and I assume classes to play cards or when they increased the size of Rock's stadium to over 80,000 or when they built the ACC or when they built the new practice facilities in the 80's or when they broadcast the games on the radio and so on ad infinitem. The answer to all of those questions is probably "yes." But that does not make it true. Otherwise, the team still be playing on Cartier field in leather helmets without facemasks while the academic facilities kept up with the world.

Gimme a break Gerry, times change and ND keeps up, gracefully and with balance. As stated earlier in this thread, ND is the only school that has a top notch football program to go with top notch academics. Sounds like sour grapes to me.
 
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solo

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I have had many of the same thoughts that Dinardo put out there in this article and I am a lifelong ND fan.

1. I thought ND panicked when they extended the contract after Weis went 5-2.
2. I am still wondering when Weis is going to beat a good team and have felt that we were over ranked much of the season (but apporpriately ranked now).
3. Of course, nobody but the parties involved know how it all played out, but I kind of have a suspicion that Weis may have played ND to get that big fat contract.

As for football becoming larger than life and the coaches salary being out of proportion to the rest of the University staff? Well, I think that this is more the times that we live in rather than any fault of ND's. If you want to make millions and millions off your football team, you pretty much need to fork over a few million to the coach.

I don't think Dinardo was unfair to ND. I would imagine that many people have had the exact same thoughts.
 
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Fighting_Irish9

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I have had many of the same thoughts that Dinardo put out there in this article and I am a lifelong ND fan.

1. I thought ND panicked when they extended the contract after Weis went 5-2.
2. I am still wondering when Weis is going to beat a good team and have felt that we were over ranked much of the season (but apporpriately ranked now).
3. Of course, nobody but the parties involved know how it all played out, but I kind of have a suspicion that Weis may have played ND to get that big fat contract.

As for football becoming larger than life and the coaches salary being out of proportion to the rest of the University staff? Well, I think that this is more the times that we live in rather than any fault of ND's. If you want to make millions and millions off your football team, you pretty much need to fork over a few million to the coach.

I don't think Dinardo was unfair to ND. I would imagine that many people have had the exact same thoughts.


I agree....Dinardo isn't the first to express these concerns, many ex players have come out and said similar things since the firing of Willingham.

The New athletic facilities (though I believe donated), the change in Early enrollment when it used to be everyone started at the same time...little things like that concern me...

I don't think ND has gone to far yet....but it worries me that we are dancing on the edge a bit as far as "football factory" is concerned....When ND fans start saying...."UF did it too, why aren' they getting the press.....It makes me cringe....since when are we on such a low level as a Florida school.
 

bayernarsch

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I wonder if some of you would have questioned the motives of Father Hesburgh back in '72 for admitting women into the university as a ploy to gain more football recruits! The university is allowed to change policy for the betterment of the overall community. Early enrollment is not limited to football players. Coach Weis' contract extension should have happened for the refreshing changes he brought to the program in approach and attitude, which happen to be much more in line with the values that were professed at Notre Dame when I attended. For those bemoaning movement perceived to be more in line with football factories, please remove thy head from sphincter! Having attended Notre Dame as an undergrad and Florida for grad school, there is no comparison! Notre Dame's student-athletes still live with other students (re:no athlete dorms) and do not have majors designed just for them. Furthermore, there are no 'classes' taught by coaches for credit available to them. As someone for whom the value of a Notre Dame degree means something tangible (since I actually possess said degree and have utilized it to obtain gainful employment), I find it loathesome that individuals for whom the association to Notre Dame is limited to that of fan to pass judgement on the actions of the administration without considering the overall community impact, rather myopically assume that decisions only revolve around football.
 
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Fighting_Irish9

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I wonder if some of you would have questioned the motives of Father Hesburgh back in '72 for admitting women into the university as a ploy to gain more football recruits! The university is allowed to change policy for the betterment of the overall community. Early enrollment is not limited to football players. Coach Weis' contract extension should have happened for the refreshing changes he brought to the program in approach and attitude, which happen to be much more in line with the values that were professed at Notre Dame when I attended. For those bemoaning movement perceived to be more in line with football factories, please remove thy head from sphincter! Having attended Notre Dame as an undergrad and Florida for grad school, there is no comparison! Notre Dame's student-athletes still live with other students (re:no athlete dorms) and do not have majors designed just for them. Furthermore, there are no 'classes' taught by coaches for credit available to them. As someone for whom the value of a Notre Dame degree means something tangible (since I actually possess said degree and have utilized it to obtain gainful employment), I find it loathesome that individuals for whom the association to Notre Dame is limited to that of fan to pass judgement on the actions of the administration without considering the overall community impact, rather myopically assume that decisions only revolve around football.

You may want to check on other students getting early enrollment. My understanding is no (non athlete) has been giving Early enrollment... If that is true, would you not agree that, that is a "bad" thing?
 

IRISHDODGER

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I'll admit that I was suprised w/ ND's quick trigger on the extension but then I figured it made sense if his recruiting trends continue & he continues to beat the teams he's supposed to beat (as opposed to consistently losing to inferior teams w/ Davie & Willingham) while starting to win vs. the elite. If you don't want the constant rumors of Weis leaving for greener pastures (like the NY Giants), then you better lock 'em up, otherwise; don't complain when he leaves for more security. But before that happens you can go ask Alabama how easy it is to get a big name coach to a once proud university. It's not like Weis has let the academics slide. Did everyone see the GPAs lately? Carlson is the 1st Academic All-American since Tim Ruddy in '93. In addition to Weis' coaching pedigree, I think what also separates him from Davie & Willingham is his true love of the University by way of being a graduate of the instituition. Davie & willingham saw ND as a prestigious job but expected the ND brand name to work its magic in recruiting w/o busting their respective asses like Weis is day in, day out. Do you really think that Davie & willingham had the ND job as one of their lifetime goals, like Lou Holtz? No way. As for the previous poster, I agree w/ what you say & respect you being an actual ND graduate. Every layperson realizes how impressive an ND degree is, but when it comes to football, the Notre Dame Fighting Irish wouldn't have the NBC contract, the merchandising $$$, the undeserving bowl bids due to ticket buyers & tv audience, or the most recognizable name in college football were it not for ALL the Irish fans. I don't know the exact enrollment, but I know that if only ND grads were allowed to be ND fans, then they'd have one of the smaller fan bases in D-1 & certainly none of the aforementioned perks.
 

bayernarsch

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Actually, I recall several transfer students arriving mid-year back when I attended, so for that to be extended to other students is not an issue for me. Also, notice I said not limited to football players with respect to January enrollment. For the sacrifices and additional contributions made by student-athletes to the Notre Dame community as a whole, the opportunity to enroll in January for a select number based on prior academic accomplishment and ability to succeed does not seem a compromise in the values of the university. Those student-athletes are still enrolled in the freshman year of studies and must attend study hall for a minimum of one semester. Furthermore, it seems to make sense to allow some individuals, especially those engaged in fall semester athletics, to establish a sound academic foundation for themselves prior to that first full season. As an alum and an educator, I'd actually like to see more fall semester athletes admitted in January to allow for the transition to college life to be more gradual and academicaly oriented.
 
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Fighting_Irish9

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Actually, I recall several transfer students arriving mid-year back when I attended, so for that to be extended to other students is not an issue for me. Also, notice I said not limited to football players with respect to January enrollment. For the sacrifices and additional contributions made by student-athletes to the Notre Dame community as a whole, the opportunity to enroll in January for a select number based on prior academic accomplishment and ability to succeed does not seem a compromise in the values of the university. Those student-athletes are still enrolled in the freshman year of studies and must attend study hall for a minimum of one semester. Furthermore, it seems to make sense to allow some individuals, especially those engaged in fall semester athletics, to establish a sound academic foundation for themselves prior to that first full season. As an alum and an educator, I'd actually like to see more fall semester athletes admitted in January to allow for the transition to college life to be more gradual and academicaly oriented.

A Transfer student isn't a freshman...

Notre Dame as far as I know still doesn't allow regular students early enrollment, only athletes. I'm not a fan of athletes getting this kind of special treatment. If its ok for Football players it should be Ok for everyone

Unless the University is saying there is a reason to not allow Early enrollment, and if that is the case...why let football players do it?
 
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irish4life99

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I agree....Dinardo isn't the first to express these concerns, many ex players have come out and said similar things since the firing of Willingham.

The New athletic facilities (though I believe donated), the change in Early enrollment when it used to be everyone started at the same time...little things like that concern me...

I don't think ND has gone to far yet....but it worries me that we are dancing on the edge a bit as far as "football factory" is concerned....When ND fans start saying...."UF did it too, why aren' they getting the press.....It makes me cringe....since when are we on such a low level as a Florida school.

Stop making excuses why Ty couldn't recruit. Why does it not suprise me to see you defending a person that has been sued by one of his last jobs for stealing money from them and even admits he has no clue of what's really going on at ND? I suppose you think that the book "Under the Tarnished Dome" is all fact too. You really don't like ND much do you.
 
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irish4life99

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Actually, I recall several transfer students arriving mid-year back when I attended, so for that to be extended to other students is not an issue for me. Also, notice I said not limited to football players with respect to January enrollment. For the sacrifices and additional contributions made by student-athletes to the Notre Dame community as a whole, the opportunity to enroll in January for a select number based on prior academic accomplishment and ability to succeed does not seem a compromise in the values of the university. Those student-athletes are still enrolled in the freshman year of studies and must attend study hall for a minimum of one semester. Furthermore, it seems to make sense to allow some individuals, especially those engaged in fall semester athletics, to establish a sound academic foundation for themselves prior to that first full season. As an alum and an educator, I'd actually like to see more fall semester athletes admitted in January to allow for the transition to college life to be more gradual and academicaly oriented.

Very insightful post. I think this shows how early entry for a student athlete in fall sports could be very benificial. Too bad some think that this is some how a comprimise of Notre Dame values. When I see ND recruting criminal players, or seeing it only graduating just more than half it's class then I would have questions. I believe that ND still values education over wins and will until proven other wise. Seems DiNardo, and some others here are just bitter towards ND.
 

bayernarsch

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Dodger - please re-read my earlier post. The only statement I made regarding an ND degree is that I have disdain for anyone, especially 'subway alums', only looking at the football side of an issue/policy rather than the overall impact for the Notre Dame community, to which includes those who never attended also belong. In no way, shape or form was I implying that only attendees of the university should be allowed to be or considered fans.

FI9 - First, did I imply that a transfer student is a freshman? Or did I state that the university has had a policy of allowing some students in during January, thus simply extended this policy to some freshman?

Second, your implication is still that only football players are allowed January admission. Without the statistics and existing policy available to me, I can not comment on potential enrollees not engaged in athletics at the university. However, based on public statements by Coach Weis and admissions it is clear that individuals other than football players are eligible for this enrollment. If the university is limiting January enrollment to athletes only, I do not take issue with this, as the demands placed on student-athletes are very different to those experienced by others. Is it special treatment that Notre Dame athletes are asked to fulfill the same academic requirements as non-athletes while also meeting the demands of coaches? One must look at equity, as opposed to equality. Does January enrollment create an inequitable situation? I fail to see that it does.

Also consider that Notre Dame was one of the first universities to introduce a Freshman Year of Studies program (since changed to First Year of Studies). As such, students experience campus life and a variety of subjects before declaring a major. Since many athletes are required by their athletic programs to attend summer session, it is not out of the question to foresee a young man or woman entering the university as an athlete with prior college credit (AP, IB, etc.), finishing the spring semester then summer session and having the credits to fulfill the First Year Studies program. Since summer session is not required of non-athletic scholarship students, it would be much more difficult for the university to ensure that these students have fulfilled the First Year requirements prior to the next fall semester.
 

jiggafini19

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When the team GPA and graduation rate falls, we can start the football factory argument.

When the arrests and moronic behavior start, we can take it even further.

The way I see it, there are four coaches that work harder than everyone else at recruiting. Notre Dame has one of them.
 

Vince Young

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I want to bold, italicize and frame Jigga's statement on the wall:

When the team GPA and graduation rate falls, we can start the football factory argument.

When the arrests and moronic behavior start, we can take it even further.

That should be case-closed. Sadly, it probably won't be.
 

VictorsValiant

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I've heard this argument before from former Nd alums like Allen Sack, but for DiNardo to make these comments is a little hypocritical. He coached at LSU, an unabashed football factory school, and he wasn't exactly trying to increase student participation in academics at Indiana either. For a guy who benefitted so greatly from the system, and to then criticize it as it applies to his alma mater is strange.

No matter what you guys think, team GPAs don't really matter. Heck, they don't even matter that much for graduate programs. There's always a "hideaway curriculum" at every school, and most of them are summer classes. I took a summer class at Michigan that had a lot of varsity athletes. The class was a joke. It was impossible not to get anything lower than a B.

Since there are many Nd alums on this board, I will pose this simple question. Did you take courses with football or basketball players? If so, were the classes easy? What was the grading scale? How do professors treat athletes?

Unless football players are an active part of campus life, where you can't really distinguish them from everyone else, you can't say that Nd or any other school hasn't given athletes special treatment.
 

bayernarsch

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VV,

Thanks for some questions which point to the true nature of the Notre Dame community. Not only do all athletes take the same courses that the general student body do, athletes from all teams are interspersed throughout the dorms on campus. There is no such thing as an athlete's dorm, nor the football dorm. My avatar is of Demetrius DuBose, who was one of my best friends. We met freshman year in an intro-level science class and had International Relations together. We continued to have classes together since we had a shared major (Government and International Relations) until graduation. Unfortunately our friendship was cut short by those cops' bullets back in '99. My best friend was a scholarship athlete on the women's basketball team and also a Government major with us. She took the same pain-in-the-butt classes and is now a professor at a Grennell in Iowa. I can continue on with numerous classes, all legitimate and none scaled down for athletes only, that exemplify the intertwined Notre Dame community. Heck, I had Nick Smith, a back-up linebacker on the team, wanting to kill me for comments I made in a Social Justice Biography (Sociology) course. Having attended U of Florida for grad school after ND, I can tell you that the nature of the community interaction there was distinctly different.

As for the 'hideaway' major, when I was there everyone scoffed at American Studies, a combo history/english program. Nonetheless, it was not an athletes-only major and, as with most liberal arts majors, was as difficulty as one wanted to make it based on the courses challenged.
 
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solo

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When the team GPA and graduation rate falls, we can start the football factory argument.

When the arrests and moronic behavior start, we can take it even further.

The way I see it, there are four coaches that work harder than everyone else at recruiting. Notre Dame has one of them.


Who ar those coaches you reference other than Weis?

Mack Brown? Pete Carroll? Tressell?
 

IRISHDODGER

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When the team GPA and graduation rate falls, we can start the football factory argument.

When the arrests and moronic behavior start, we can take it even further.

The way I see it, there are four coaches that work harder than everyone else at recruiting. Notre Dame has one of them.

AMEN BROTHER!
 
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