thoughts on ND as a 3-4 defense....

[ND4life]

i dont know if anyone has brought up this topic before but.....do you think CW would like Minter to implement a 3-4 defense in the coming year(s) ala New England Patriots?

Height and Weight from rivals 2006 depth chart

LDE:Kellen Wade 6'5" 240 (add 15-20 lbs)
DT: Trevor Laws 6'1" 294
RDEarrell Hand 6'3" 287

LOLB: Joe Brockington 6'2" 232
MLB: Maurice Crum Jr. 6'0" 225
MLB: Chris Donald 6'2" 220 ?????
ROLB: Maurice Richardson 6'2" 222 or Toryan Smith 6'0" 244

just throwing the tought out there what do you guys think???

 

[Famboo28]

Check the football forum, it has been mentioned there many times. Or just use the search bar at the top.

 

[BGIF]

It's been discussed as much as, if not more than, Green Jerseys and who's going to start at QB in '07.

The discussions should predominately be in the Football Forum under Defense, Travis Thomas, Minter, etc. I tried a search but the search function doesn't like "3-4" or "34". I did find one thread visually http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16208

Preseason in discussing the Travis Thomas to LB move, Weis was asked in a press conference (around Aug 13th) about using the 3-4 considering the size of Thomas. Implying that Thomas would do better with 4 LBs than 3. Weis replied to the contrary that "Size matters in a 3-4, it doesn't in a 4-3". He amplified his reasoning in the press conference. There might be a transcript I used to post them (but I didn't look for it tonight).

From what I recall of the many threads on the topic that while it's popular with fans (whatever scheme we NOT using is popular with fans) ND doesn't have the horses up front on the DL nor at LB. As ND rebuilds through recruiting ND may move in that direction in time. Keep in mind if ND got 3 DLs and 4 LBs in the next class, ND would not open with a 3-4 as those rookies have to build their bodies up to play against 21 and 22 year old OLs that have been lifting and developing technique for 3 or 4 years.

Weis has consistently says he plays what the talent lets him play (offense or defense). We don't have the horses yet and the few we have are ponies right now.

Feel free to identify the Chris Zorich clone in the middle of the DLine and the 4 LBs like Stonebreaker, Dubose, Kowalkowski, and Jones.

I have trouble finding one LB of that quality, strength and experience on the team. Check out a Depth Chart from those days. ND was 3 deep at all 4 LB positions and there was a solid 2 Deep on the DLine. We can't fill a first string today.

 

[jiggafini19]

They can win with a 4-3 if everyone, coaches and players, knows what the hell they're doing.

And hopefully soon Haywood can take over the offense a little bit because having a head coach whose baby is the offense doesn't help matters any.

3-4, 4-3, 867-5309....none of it matters if your players aren't in position to make plays and you don't have game changers. You mix things up. You play a little 3-4, a little 4-3, nickel, dime. You disguise what you do, keep the offense guessing, attack them, make THEM react to YOU.

This is why getting Donald is so vital. This is why not getting these top flight defensive players like Griffen and Tez Wilson hurts so much. Defensive players are being given negative recruiting because the ND universe is centered around Weis, Quinn and now Clausen.

It's a great place for offense and the coach has lots of Super Bowl rings. So do the defensive coordinators of those teams

 

[njuneardave]

i have no problem with Weis calling the plays. Why in the world would you want to start passing responsibility to Haywood? The offense is our staple.... it's the only thing that we get credit for.

 

[jiggafini19]

i have no problem with Weis calling the plays. Why in the world would you want to start passing responsibility to Haywood? The offense is our staple.... it's the only thing that we get credit for.

He is the HEAD COACH, not offensive coordinator. Haywood is a big boy...he can call plays. Weis needs to be involved in ALL of the facets of the team.

The offense is their staple...and that is the point I'm making. It is a problem.

 

[njuneardave]

i dont see it as being a problem, jigga. so what? weis is the head coach... he is also an offensive mastermind. it would be a travesty is Weis stopped calling plays.... his ingenuity is the sole reason that we have made it to the BCS the past 2 years. I'm not taking anything away from Haywood, but why try to fix something that isn't broken?

Offensive potency is never a problem.... i usually agree with the things you say, but this takes me by surprise. Weis does an excellent job.

 

[jiggafini19]

A travesty? I don't know if it is that dramatic. Pete Carroll had a defensive coordinator for the first time EVER this year since he took the job. Their defense didn't exactly crumble into a bunch of rag tags. The offense isn't broken. The defense is.

Charlie Weis is not offensive coordinator of the Patriots or Notre Dame. He is the head coach of Notre Dame football. The time has passed for him to just leave the defense to everyone else. He should be involved with EVERY apsect of the team. Offense, defense, special teams, recruiting. I think he has two of them down cold.

I don't care if Weis continues to call plays or not. He'd better start getting involved with the defense more or else they're going to keep hearing "no thanks" from the Ben Martins and Martez Wilsons and Chris Donalds and Will Blackwells.

Maybe his offensive genius can help with the defense a little bit?

 

[njuneardave]

what are you suggesting that Weis should do? Should he begin taking responsibility from Minter? I've heard Weis mention several times that he IS involved with the defense... sometimes, he will even call a play now and again. He listens to their communications on his headset... he isn't withdrawn from the defense.

I know that Charlie doesn't take the traditional head-coach role, but what he does, works. Yeah, our defense needs to be revamped, but this is not Charlie's specialty.... I know he has say into what and who our defense plays, but he isn't going to garner control of the whole operation. He shouldn't -- he needs to leave this to an expert. Charlie is an expert on offense, and he should therefore, retain control. He isn't so focused on offense that he is causing us to suddenly be an unbalanced team. We are trying to focus more on defense (obviously by recruiting), but we can't expect to compete with the other D-focused schools (ala tenn) just yet.... it takes time to build up a defense... it's not immediate.

 

[jiggafini19]

He gets paid a lot of money to be a head coach, not an offensive coordinator. His specialty is head coach. He is responsible for all of it, not just Brady and Jimmy.

 

[njuneardave]

do you think that the offense is the extent of Weis's control? I don't. Anyone else want to chime in on what they believe? Or if they think Weis should give up the reins of the offense to Haywood? It's a 2-person discussion as of now... what does everyone else think? I believe that Weis does a good job of handling personnel, recruiting, managing time clock, and focusing on all spectra of the games. I know that very few head coaches have the control of a certain facet of the game that is comparable to Weis... but look at Beamer... his Special Teams crew is his... and it works. Same thing with us and offense. We will only improve as time passes on the defensive side of the ball. Weis addressed our most pressing issue last year with recruiting (O-Line) and has been working incredibly hard this year on the defensive side (we will see the results in a few months). I think most people will agree that Weis doesn't simply focus on QB's and offense -- while the offense is our strength, Weis has taken great strides to address the defensive deficiencies.

Weis still manages to handle his HC position very well while still maintaining OC focus. He can do more than one thing.... and he does a great job at it, imo.

 

[jiggafini19]

Weis has taken great strides to address the defensive deficiencies.

And they have manifested themselves how?

 

[njuneardave]

is effort measured in commitments?


like I said, Weis has given an incredible amount of focus to recruiting the top defensive players around, and he has done his best to bring them to Notre Dame (anyone going to refute this?). Weis has no say in whether or not the kids CHOOSE Notre Dame -- he has no control over this.

 

[jiggafini19]

I'm not talking about recruiting as much as I am what is going on internally right now, in two years.

Here's why:

Run defense: 132.3 yards per game and 3.9 yards per carry last year. This year 127.8 and 3.6

YPC: Michigan 1.85 yards per carry, Texas (2.27), Florida (2.79), LSU (3.03), USC (3.15) and Ohio State (3.29).

Pass defense: Last year 264.6 yards per game and 7.7 yards per attempt. This year 192.7 yards per game (thank you service academies), yards per attempt 7.6.

Notre Dame intercepted 10 passes to 13 in 2005. The sacks were the same, 31 last year, 30 this season.

They will lose at least 3 DL and 2 DB. Depending on 5th years, 9 starters on defense could be gone. And Travis Thomas was invisible for a month at LB. So, we know half the unit will be gone for sure. The same unit that put up virtually identical numbers for two years. Now they have to replace half of these guys next year? This doesn't bode well.

The offense was also about the same and lost four starters, plus Schwapp during the second game of the season, from last year. They hardly skipped a beat. Maybe because the head coach has a specialty in offense?

While the defense is sitting on the bench, Weis is calling plays to the offense on the field as the defense is sitting around trying to figure out what the hell just happened to them. Of course now it might be too late because he's going into next season with a whole new O Line, WR corps, QB, etc. That means he'll have even less time to work with the defense than he has with Quinn.

All of his offensive wizardry should be able to shed some light on what the defense is doing wrong. CW has only been a head coach for two years. Hopefully he's easing himself into being more hands on with the rest of the facets of a football team than just the offense.

 

[njuneardave]

yeah, our defense is awful.... i want to can minter, but i don't want to start another "fire minter" rant on the board -- its just my oppinion. i believe the defensive woes are directly attributable to the man in charge of the defense.... (and in this case, its not Weis), so I can't justify ragging Weis for our mediocre D

 

[jiggafini19]

Personally, I would prefer a defensive guy like Charlie with NFL experience. Worked for UCLA this year.

But even that being said, I don't think They have to fire him if the head coach works closer with him. He doesn't have to micromanage Minter, but he can dive deeper into the scheme of things on a daily basis and during games. This is why Poodle finally got a DC this year...so he can be a HEAD COACH.

I think Weis leaves the majority of reponsibility on defense to Minter. He knows what's going on, but I don't think he's all that deep into it.